Daei will use young team in World Cup Qualifiers, Thoughts??

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Yes I agree completely.
But there is one big difference. Klinsmann coached Germany, one of the best footballing nations in the world. While Daei coaches......Iran.
.

TO WHOM HE LISTENED!

[KasraKhan]

TO WHOM HE LISTENED!

Khoda as dahanet beshnave Ade jan.

Team Melli is a team that belongs to 70 million people. Its simply too big for one old mans ego.

The best coaches and technical staff members our country can produce must cooperate and communicate with one another in order to produce a well rounded, fit, expereinced, and most important, field the BEST team we have available. Thats the point.

[maij]

No Maij jan, I never said it was a failure. But can we really be proud at Daei for topping us in that group? Should we not top the group? Do we not, in our recent history, beat those teams convincingly? Team Melli should, and did top that group. But its nothing to applaud. Its like saying kudos to Brazil in beating Singapore. Ya...so what? They are supposed to beat Singapore. Just as we are supposed to beat UAE. Syria and Kuwait. Right? If cant beat them, then we dont belong anywhere near the WC.

First of alll, go to www.teammelli.com and find out when did we beat Syria , Kuwait and UAE convincingly

After you get the data , you may care to explain to me in which bible or law book is there a mention of Team Melli beating TEAM X or Y convincingly.

This is professional football my dear. Do you think that the names of Karimi and Hashemian or Daei is enough to send a jitters in the legs of the opposition , and hence declare defeat?

Enlightenme ...When was the last time Iran won a trophy at Asian level , at youth level or senior level?

It is one thing to have passion , pride and support for our team , but hollow claims that we must beat this team or that convincingly is a matter for consumption on this board only and does not belong to real world.

All the issues aside, if Daei will use the 3 veterans in the team or not, can we at least agree on, that if Daei chooses NOT to use them, that he is wrong and badly mistaken? Do you agree with that Maij?

NO.... I certainly do not agree that he is mistaken.

First of all , who am I to decide for Daei or any coach for that matter?

Second...when we had these so-called stars before , what did we achieve ?

Third , if a national team coach has to listen to every expert or fan , why do we need a coach like Daei ? to rest his big ass on the bench and coach a team that is selected by others!!!

Fourth ...did it occur to you that Daei , or any other coach , has his reasons for players selection be it discipline , tactical , technical , age , commitment to the team , form , standard and other stuff?

If he wants to change the whole team , I would probably think think he is crazy , and I could be right , but at the end of the day , who is going to be accountable ? me or Daei?

Daei tries to make it seem that Vahid and Kia are too old to be effective. Vahid and Kia are un-arguably the 2 most successful Iranian players in Europe in our history. Its not even close. They have been the 2 best players for us in Europe.

When did Daei say anything about age ?? I must have missed that.

The last statement about age that he mentioned was that it is not a factor in his selection , so where did you get that info from?

Instead of Vahid Hashemian, former ex-Bayern Munich player, Daei will be using Milad Meydavoodi. Is that a wise coaching decision?

Instead of Mehdi Mahdavikia, Asian Player of the year 2003 (only 5 years ago,) Daei will be using the likes of Ebrahim Sadeghi and Gholamnejad. Is that a wise coaching decision? Former HSV great vs. two Saipa players. Hmm....let me think which one is better.

Thank you for mentioning the KEY WORD "Former" , I rest my case with that.

In my opinion , Kia is a wasted player. He had an aweful seaon with Farnkfurt and spent a lot of time on the bench apart from his chronic back injury. Hashemian was not even that lucky as the most powerful striker who many think is indispensable player for Team Melli , has a scored a grand total of 1 goal in the season!

To make matters worst , for the second time in his career , he prefers to stay with the club rather than playing for his country.

What type of an attitude is that ????? Do we really need player who decide for themselves when will they turn up or what post they will play ??

You think the nation should beg this guy and kiss his ass to come and represent his country ???? You and other might think so , but to me...this country that has created Hashmeian can create a plenty like him and better than him...Players that cherish and have commitment to Team Melli must be awarded the honor of representing their country ...

Saying all that , it is not as if Daei is perfect.... He will make mistakes like every coach in the world , but the end result will be apparent at later stages. From what I have seen already , he is not doing a bad job at all. In fact with more experience and exposure , he migh surprise a few doubters as will , the same ones that said that Team Melli will be eliminated from the group stages.

[maij]

Khoda as dahanet beshnave Ade jan.

Team Melli is a team that belongs to 70 million people. Its simply too big for one old mans ego.

The best coaches and technical staff members our country can produce must cooperate and communicate with one another in order to produce a well rounded, fit, expereinced, and most important, field the BEST team we have available. Thats the point.

Then how about writing a petition to IFF demanding a committee to coach Team Melli. It is not a joke, it has been done once or twice before in some other countries ( If I remember right USSR tried it once) , but it was an absolute failure.

[zzgloo]

kasrakhan,va Adesore e aziz...................

The question is, other than immitateing Klinssmaan.......what els can Daei do ?
Out smart other coaches ?
Out plan other coaches ?
Come up with a super avangard game plan ?

.................................................. .....................
I remmember a joke when I was a kid......!!
A math teacher asks his 3rd grade student to say out laud the multiplication chart ;
The student goes ; ( With a reathem ) "du du ta, char ta,...du char ta, hashta, du hash ta, shonzdahta,etc,etc "
the teacher asks the secound student who was not a good student the same question ;
the secound student stands up and say ;( out laud );
" daram daam, daam daam,...daraam raam daam daam....ect....."
The teacher says, what is that?....and the secound student says : I may not know the numbers, by I know " The reathem " !!
.................................................. .......
We are hopeing,that, The next round teams' players, are as weak as previouse rounds,.... to be beaten by unpracticed ,inexperinced ,coaching and player staff.
,

[KasraKhan]

First of alll, go to www.teammelli.com and find out when did we beat Syria , Kuwait and UAE convincingly

Trust me Maij I know your site very well. I dont need to refer to it, here are some results we've had agaisnt those teams in the past few years.

Iran 7-1 Syria
Iran 3-0 UAE in UAE
Iran 3-1 Kuwait in Kuwait

7-1 is not convincengly? We destroyed them under Branko.

After you get the data , you may care to explain to me in which bible or law book is there a mention of Team Melli beating TEAM X or Y convincingly.

This is professional football my dear. Do you think that the names of Karimi and Hashemian or Daei is enough to send a jitters in the legs of the opposition , and hence declare defeat?

Well if you look at it that way, then yes, everything is subjective and we are not favored to beat any team

Enlightenme ...When was the last time Iran won a trophy at Asian level , at youth level or senior level

It is one thing to have passion , pride and support for our team , but hollow claims that we must beat this team or that convincingly is a matter for consumption on this board only and does not belong to real world.

Who are we talking about here? Japan? Australia? S.Korea? What does UAE, Syria, and Kuwait have to do with winning a title at the Asian level? We are talking about Asian minnows here, and if we want to be a powerhouse that we claim that we are, then we shouldnt have a probem beating them. The way you speak, you put us on the same level as them. Which we are not. We think we are better, we are better, and FIFA rankings say we are much better too. FIFA rankings are questionable when the 2 teams playing are a few spots away, but not when we are ranked 41 and our opponent is ranked 115. There is nothing questionable about that.

NO.... I certainly do not agree that he is mistaken.

First of all , who am I to decide for Daei or any coach for that matter?

Second...when we had these so-called stars before , what did we achieve ?

We easily qualified for the WC with one game in hand. That is not an achievement? That is a HELL of an achievement for Team Melli. And we did that with Karimi, Kia and Vahid as our best players. Oh and dont forget we were playing 10v11 while Daei was a useless player on the pitch that did nothing but harm our team.

In my opinion , Kia is a wasted player. He had an aweful seaon with Farnkfurt and spent a lot of time on the bench apart from his chronic back injury.

I disagree with you. Kia has more intelligence and football IQ then all the other TM players combined. And for that reason solely, he deserves to be on the pitch. Even at RB, he can be very useful to the team. Dont forget his pin point crosses on free kicks and corners, those have remained at the same caliber.

There is no point in me and you sitting here and arguing. Time will tell who is right. And time will tell if Daei calls them up, uses them, and how we fair with or without them in our team.

[Ali Chicago]

Am I missing a point but going through the TM list, the only young player that Daie invited is Ehsan Haj Safi. Other addition is Ebrahim Sadeghi and Gholamreza Rezai which by no stretch of imagination can be considered "youth". So I am a bit puzzled with the term "youth" being used to describe Daie's TM selection. Maybe people need to use the term "New" or "different", but I think technically "youth" is inaccurate.

On the broader question of Daie's selection of players in the TM and his leadership, I feel the true feeling of quote in English "being between the Rock and a Hard place". On one hand, Daie's decisions in not inviting Kia, Hashemian, Karimi, Mobali, Madanchi can potentially hurt our team (specially in light of the problems of WC2006 among players). Add to that, the issue of Daie's company getting the TM jersey contract and TM staff like Ahmad Zadeh, Firat,... leaving the TM, suggests a not so stable environment in the TM coaching staff.
On the other hand, I feel as a true fan, I need to support TM coaching staff and give them time to prove or disporve themselves. If god forbid, Iran do poor in the first 2-3 games of the WC 2010 qualificiation (without Kia et al), I can't even imagine the wave of anti Daie sentiment. I hope this doesn't happen and TM promotes from the group easily. Like anything else in Iran, the so called "youth TM team" is merky.

As far as team melli dominating teams like UAE etc, while UAE and Persian Gulf countries made tremendous progress in football, I think Iran still "DOMINATES" UAE. To prove the point, one can look at the head to head results. Iran only lost once to UAE in a friendly. Iran on the other hand at least defeared UAE officially 7 times. Stats talk for itself. Once can try to split hair and say what is the defenition of "DOMINATING" etc. etc., but I think head to head results speak for itself.

[maij]

Trust me Maij I know your site very well. I dont need to refer to it, here are some results we've had agaisnt those teams in the past few years.

Iran 7-1 Syria
Iran 3-0 UAE in UAE
Iran 3-1 Kuwait in Kuwait

7-1 is not convincengly? We destroyed them under Branko.

The last one was definitely convincing , but the rest of the matches were all close results. We also lost 3-0 to Kuwait and 3-1 to UAE and were beaten by Syria in Tehran.

The point I am trying to make is that these teams are NOT easy prey for Team Melli or any other team. Both Kuwait and UAE made it to the World Cup , so they are not exactly Maldives or Sri Lanka.

Well if you look at it that way, then yes, everything is subjective and we are not favored to beat any team

The way I look at it is very simple. There is no easy teams anymore and success is based on hard work , organization and technical skills NOT on the fact that over 30 years ago we were the Asian Champions or 2000 years ago we ruled Greece.

Who are we talking about here? Japan? Australia? S.Korea? What does UAE, Syria, and Kuwait have to do with winning a title at the Asian level? We are talking about Asian minnows here, and if we want to be a powerhouse that we claim that we are, then we shouldnt have a probem beating them. The way you speak, you put us on the same level as them. Which we are not. We think we are better, we are better, and FIFA rankings say we are much better too. FIFA rankings are questionable when the 2 teams playing are a few spots away, but not when we are ranked 41 and our opponent is ranked 115. There is nothing questionable about that.

Like I said , when was the last time Iran won anything?

The term powerhouse is an attribute given to champions in my book. What justifies Iran being a powerhouse in your opinion? Is it the number of Championships at International level or at club levels or even at youth level?

Don't get me wrong , KasraKhan Jan , like you , I want to brag and be proud of the team , but one must be realistic before labeling the team and indulging on false impressions. Let us face the reality , there is a lot of work that needs to be done in Iran not just at Team Melli level. The administration is chaotic , IFF is run indirectly by the government , the facilities are mediocre , the press and media are less than professional , the two most popular clubs in the country are directly owned and run by the government (and they don't even have stadiums of their own!) , fans are killed and maimed in the stadiums...we have a long way to go to to deserve the title 'powerhouse'.

Labeling and claiming is cheap & free. I can call Team Melli anything even claim that they deserve to win the World Cup as well, but based on what ?

We easily qualified for the WC with one game in hand. That is not an achievement? That is a HELL of an achievement for Team Melli. And we did that with Karimi, Kia and Vahid as our best players. Oh and dont forget we were playing 10v11 while Daei was a useless player on the pitch that did nothing but harm our team.

As I said before , everyone has his own criteria of achievement, yours is different than mine and we beg to differ. Neither your outlook for achievement is engraved in stone nor mine.

I disagree with you. Kia has more intelligence and football IQ then all the other TM players combined. And for that reason solely, he deserves to be on the pitch. Even at RB, he can be very useful to the team. Dont forget his pin point crosses on free kicks and corners, those have remained at the same caliber.

So I assume that all this talent you Kia has is being ignored by Eintracht Farnkfurt ? I wonder why ...

For the record , I tape all Team Melli games, and I usually watch them once or twice depending on the game importance. I have not seen Kia perform like his old style for a long time.
If you have access to the latest game Kia played, pay a particular attention to his crosses..... If I really had ample tone to spare , I would have picked a few shoots and sent it to you.

There is no point in me and you sitting here and arguing. Time will tell who is right. And time will tell if Daei calls them up, uses them, and how we fair with or without them in our team.

I have no problem with Daei inviting them or not. I firmly believe it is up to the coach to decide and he is ultimately responsible and knows best. His neck is on the line not mine.

I also cannot predict the future. If the team makes it to the World Cup , it is a false impression to say it was because of Daei. The coach is one element in this complicated formula and I would not jump to the conclusion that he is the best ever coach in the history of Team Melli either when he makes it without the stars.

I have respect for professionals who have been trained or experienced in their jobs , but also mainly because I am a fan sitting in front of a TV. The fact that I watch hundreds of games does not qualify me to be an expert in coaching. YES, I pass opinions and exchanges with others , but that is about it. Passionate as I might be , I do however understand my limitations.

One thing that never seizes to amaze me , is the amount of speculation that people spread in this board , like this Daei and Mobali supposed animosity.

[Hadi]

Although I agree with giving most of those new players a chance, but I think new players should be introduced gradually.

Remember how Teymorian got into TM in 2006? Same as how GR.Rezaie has proved himself TM material.

But ignoring players like Hashemian, Mahdavikia, Karimi and Madanchi is just wrong.

[Hajagha]

Karimi, Hashemian and Kia are playing anymore? Where and when did you see them playing?

Let's not bring the same argument about "Daei being the most successful player of Iran history and then belongs to TM" anymore. Let's bring the best of ours and not check the history book.

Besides, tell me which one of our current players you want to bench to bring these three?

One more point, don't you think that these three (plus the other 50 who are in the squad or willing to be) have now a point to prove? Unlike our previous coaches that we even knew who is going to be subb'ed at which minute?

Relax my friend, we've got no one conviencing except Nekonam and Aghili in the team. If you see either of these two are crossed, then bring your sword.

Cheers,

[Doctor DOOM]

Kia is 31
Vahid is 32
Thats too old? Being 37 is not too old for Daei, but being 31 and 32 is for Kia and Vahid? It doesnt make any sense. That is the classic definition of irony as DD says.


Instead of Mehdi Mahdavikia, Asian Player of the year 2003 (only 5 years ago,) Daei will be using the likes of Ebrahim Sadeghi and Gholamnejad. Is that a wise coaching decision? Former HSV great vs. two Saipa players. Hmm....let me think which one is better.

respect.


---------------------

majid jan, while getting through the group is a positive , especially for a rookie coach, but lets not exaggerate and elevate beating uae 1-0 to beating japan and korea .

we will face south korea and saudis , not syria or kuwait ( who can be beaten quite easily by MOST asian teams these days ).
you know as well as anyone else that the standards of the first round & second round cannot be compared. even if uae is in the same group.

so while we all appreciate Daei's job done, lets not say we're home & dry in the next round on the strength of beating a pizoori kuwait.



like it or not, beating kuwait, uae and syria IS routine work for TM.
what would surprise ppl is TM LOSING to these teams ... as those examples you brought up , WHICH ARE THE ODD EXCEPTIONS & NOT THE RULE.

==========

to continue from bahram's post, I must say I agree.
when we have a coach who is NOT an extremely masterful and experienced one, we BETTER get the other aspects of our campaign in best possible shape, to reduce the negatives and lacks to minimum.

by leaving out a bunch of highly talented players we are merely ADDING to the lacks and shortcomings of our campaign.

if your range rover is having a bit of a problem with its acceleration which you cant fix, you'd at least make sure you use the better oil or superior petrol or right tyres or ... to compensate for the existing problem. you will never say "oh f**k it. I cant fix the engine's problem, why bother with the better oil or superior petrol or tyres? might as well use some crappy ones". would you ?
same thing with the TM.

[zzgloo]

Useing the most number of legioners is not the right way, as Galenoee tried to do.
useing the least may not be correct either as daei is planning to do.

There are some legioners,whom are either out of shape, or we have better players to repalce them with...or just they are at a very competetive position.
this set of legioners,in my opinion, are :
Enayati,
Khatibi,
Kazemian,
Mobali,
Rahman Rezaie,
Anderanik......
etc.

The legioners we must use ;( In my opinion )
Kia
Karimi
hashemian
madanchi

[maij]

[quote=Doctor DOOM; majid jan, while getting through the group is a positive , especially for a rookie coach, but lets not exaggerate and elevate beating uae 1-0 to beating japan and korea .

we will face south korea and saudis , not syria or kuwait ( who can be beaten quite easily by MOST asian teams these days ).
you know as well as anyone else that the standards of the first round & second round cannot be compared. even if uae is in the same group.

so while we all appreciate Daei's job done, lets not say we're home & dry in the next round on the strength of beating a pizoori kuwait.

like it or not, beating kuwait, uae and syria IS routine work for TM.
what would surprise ppl is TM LOSING to these teams ... as those examples you brought up , WHICH ARE THE ODD EXCEPTIONS & NOT THE RULE.


[/quote]

Doc , I don't know how you got this exaggerate part from , if it is your understanding that I am exaggerating , then I officially and categorically deny it.


My motto is very simple...... I don't wake up everyday and categorize teams according to which side of the bed i woke up from. To me Syria is Syria , Japan is Japan and even Sri Lanka is Sri Lank...they all have my respect. I am quite hasppy with a 1-0 win against UAE , as much as a 1-0 win against Japan.......When FIFA decides that a Japan win is 3 points and a win against Yemen is only 2 points , then I will change my way of thinking.

[Ali Chicago]

Useing the most number of legioners is not the right way, as Galenoee tried to do.
useing the least may not be correct either as daei is planning to do.
There are some legioners,whom are either out of shape, or we have better players to repalce them with...or just they are at a very competetive position.
this set of legioners,in my opinion, are :
Enayati,
Khatibi,
Kazemian,
Mobali,
Rahman Rezaie,
Anderanik......
etc.
The legioners we must use ;( In my opinion )
Kia
Karimi
hashemian
madanchi

To me Bahram Jaan, using or not using the Legioners is all depends of the needs of the TM. For example at this stage to me calling up Hashemian is even much more important (after Khalili's injury and Hadi Asghari not being in TM as a goal scorer and addition of aerial attack in our forward line) than calling up Kia or even Karimi. While I still beleive both Kia and Karimi must be called up and be a starter, our team still has players like Shojai and Kazemian (who unfortuanately isn't called up) to fill their shoes, but Hashemian in the TM as a starter (specially after Enayati not being called up or pull out or whatever and Khalili's injury) has no ifs and buts.

God forbid, TM won't do well in the first 2-3 games or heck even in WAFF, you will see the backlash.

So in summary, calling or not calling up the legioners shouldn't be simply a done deal (like Branko era and to my total disappointment during GN era), or it should be a bias toward not calling them up for whatever !!! (persoanl agend, or other )reason. It is very simplay matter of the needs of the TM. If we have an Iranian player in IPL who in whatever post is better than Karimi or Kia who play outside, even if they are not a legioners, they should be called up (I have no reservation for Gholamreza Rezai for example), but if we don't have a local player as good as the legiones despite their age, backache or whatever other reasons, they should be called up and utilized.

[zzgloo]

To me Bahram Jaan, using or not using the Legioners is all depends of the needs of the TM. For example at this stage to me calling up Hashemian is even much more important (after Khalili's injury and Hadi Asghari not being in TM as a goal scorer and addition of aerial attack in our forward line) than calling up Kia or even Karimi. While I still beleive both Kia and Karimi must be called up and be a starter, our team still has players like Shojai and Kazemian (who unfortuanately isn't called up) to fill their shoes, but Hashemian in the TM as a starter (specially after Enayati not being called up or pull out or whatever and Khalili's injury) has no ifs and buts.
God forbid, TM won't do well in the first 2-3 games or heck even in WAFF, you will see the backlash.
So in summary, calling or not calling up the legioners shouldn't be simply a done deal (like Branko era and to my total disappointment during GN era), or it should be a bias toward not calling them up for whatever !!! (persoanl agend, or other )reason. It is very simplay matter of the needs of the TM. If we have an Iranian player in IPL who in whatever post is better than Karimi or Kia who play outside, even if they are not a legioners, they should be called up (I have no reservation for Gholamreza Rezai for example), but if we don't have a local player as good as the legiones despite their age, backache or whatever other reasons, they should be called up and utilized.

I agree......that was also what I meant by " Must be used ".....
daei said, in his recent interview, Any coach will use his best player....and he will use his best player regardless of what ( As he said )...
So, it seems, as he feels some of the legioners are not as good as people think they are, and he can tell between a true talent and a fake one.....
But, by what we see as his choices......such as Sadeghi......and not choosieng players such as madanchi and karimi ( While avaielabel )...one while knowing he has no expeince nor much knowldge of coaching......he also is showing very little,to be able to tell a talent when he sees one.