Does TM has 10 solid 90 min players?

[gol_kuchik]

If we look at some old school coaching philosophies, particularly in East
Europe the expectation has been to maintain the starting 10 for the entire
90 minutes. In our football, if we look back to Branko's time, it
appeared that substitution for him was really the result of hitting a
brick wall on the field, either due to a player injury, complete lack of
fitness, or falling behind and using subs as a roll of dice. Otherwise,
using pre-planned subs did not appear to have been part of the original
game plan. In one of TM best games (against Qatar for WC qualification)
Borhani and Azizi were subed in when we were behind, and more as a
ploy to prevent critiques from blaming the coach for his game plan yet they
completely changed the game tempo and we came back to win.

Contrast this with teams like Italy, where player rotation particularly for half
backs that run all over is just a routine exercise and many teams use the full
3 subs at critical points (and not just at minute 87 to waste time like
it is customary with our team) to maintain the flow and dictate their
plan.

The reality with our players is that with the exception of a few players
like Javad and Kaabi , most of our players are not 90 minutes players.

WC 2006 was a perfect proof for this statement.
Many of our GOOD players, like Kia, Zandi, Karimi, Niki to some degree even
Vaheed and Madanchi can not go at it for the 90 minutes. The coaches
response to this has not been very thoughtful. If the subs are properly
planned ahead these players can all contribute while knowing well ahead
that in the 40 or 60 minutes they are in, they should go full speed and all
out without having to budget their energy for the full 90 minutes.
Also the fact that defenders are not typically not subbed , the 3 subs
would be focused on the other 6 players.

This may be just what the doctor ordered to realize full TM potential,
get the best out of our experienced players, yet adjust for their limitations.

[mkbf2]

currently i dont think so, but what team in Asia does?

[gol_kuchik]

currently i dont think so, but what team in Asia does?

As far as endurance, both South as well as North Koreans as well as the
Japanese don't come short on stamina as much as we do on the west Asia.
The coach may make a sub, for a different reason, but not due to fitness.

[Ali Chicago]

As far as endurance, both South as well as North Koreans as well as the
Japanese don't come short on stamina as much as we do on the west Asia.
The coach may make a sub, for a different reason, but not due to fitness.

Korean indeed are very fit and relatively fast (team wise) in both offense and defense. They always play pressure football to take time and space away from our players.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

for Asian level: yes we have
for International level: only the few who play in european leagues.

The speed of Asian football, specialy Middle Eastern football is very low.

[the-ali]

I can only think of 2 players right now: Nekounam and Ando

Shojaei will be added to the list a little later once he has some european experience under his belt.

I would add Mahdavikia to the list, but he is currently on the decline due to age.

[Ghomarbaaz]

no we don't have 10
but we do have 11!

[Doctor DOOM]

to add to GK's original post, we have seen other strategies in subbing as well, from knowledgeable coaches.

coaches may put in a player with very different characteristics knowing/planning the player will have a specific time to do his most, which is followed by a totally different sort of player that in a way takes advantage of the first fellow's performance.
sometimes putting in a couple of guys who run very hard and push themselves beyond the limit for the first 60 or even 45 minutes is by itself a strategy. the players dont need to pace themselves for the 90, therefore they can work that much harder, run that much faster which may bring in an early result such as goals, or getting their markers and opponents extremely tired ... prepping them for the actual player who comes in to deliver the goals later.

It all depends on the coach, his extent of strategies, as well as the depth of the bench.

do we have players who can SUSTAIN optimal work-efficiency for the whole of 90 minutes?
In midfield and strikers, I can only name some like ando and maybe madanchi.
central defenders dont need to cover as much as the mids, so I think aghili, bengar and hosseini are in an acceptable zone.
leaving the RB and LB's. of which I can only say kaabi as someone who could sustain the top levels.

[shayan20]

today we saw that our player (most of them) were physically stronger than the saudi players.

although some of our players are naturally not strong and can't play full 90 minutes such as Zandi.

[gol_kuchik]

First of course congratulations to coach Ali Daei and TM for a crucial 3 points.
Second, any TM fan loves Mehdi for all he does. He was even called the
best player of the match. But please look back and find the proof of below
point after roughly the first 30 or so minutes. Now people are trying to get
Bagheri in too. The whole reason we won today, was the huge pressing and
amazing speed we had the first half (for the most part).

To be able to sustain that type of pressue, we will not be able to stay with Kia
for 90 minutes, very simple.

Unfortunately if you review the second half tape, Kia is walking most of the time
and that simply puts more pressure on the rest of the right flank.

I think Daei did not want to sub Kia (some TM fans being the arse whole they are
and then saying why are you subbing Kia) but Kia should have been subed
oh around half time.

.......
The reality with our players is that with the exception of a few players
like Javad and Kaabi , most of our players are not 90 minutes players.
WC 2006 was a perfect proof for this statement.
Many of our GOOD players, like Kia, Zandi, Karimi, Niki to some degree even
Vaheed and Madanchi can not go at it for the 90 minutes. The coaches
response to this has not been very thoughtful. If the subs are properly
planned ahead these players can all contribute while knowing well ahead
that in the 40 or 60 minutes they are in, they should go full speed and all
out without having to budget their energy for the full 90 minutes.
Also the fact that defenders are not typically not subbed , the 3 subs
would be focused on the other 6 players.
This may be just what the doctor ordered to realize full TM potential,
get the best out of our experienced players, yet adjust for their limitations.

[Doctor DOOM]

I look at the question this way: how many of the players can maintain the same intensity and optimal quality of football for 90 minutes. I dont care if they can run for 90 minutes if that running doesnt get us anywhere.
(there are a lot of players who can run and run for more than 90 minutes, but with not much quality to show for it)


so I'd say kaabi, nekounam, an in form ando, aghili are the few I could think of.
the rest either dont have the quality to start with or have the quality, but gradually they lose it during the game.

==================

hamid's statement on subbing goes back on the matter of "experience" of a coach.
that's why daei needs some experienced fellow sitting next to him and helping him along. houman, for all the respect we have, isnt the answer to this puzzle. otherwise we'd have seen different things by now.
either get Rottemuler to join ASAP, or get someone else to kick-start daei to act when his brain freezes , as it did halfway through the second half in this game.

[gol_kuchik]

.....
that's why daei needs some experienced fellow sitting next to him and helping him along.
.....

With all due respect to Daei and coaching staff, something is very missing
in our defensive plan. We look very vulnerable. I just don't see us getting
better in that department. Watched the game today for a second time, and
it look like we certainly can use help in this department.

[Doctor DOOM]

but before that there ought to be recognition and acknowledgement of the problem and the need to correct it by daei. without recognizing it we cant expect him to attempt to solve it.

now, we arent in his head, so we dont know what goes on in there. But his actions and decisions are a good marker for whether he does recognize this fact or no.

[maij]

With all due respect to Daei and coaching staff, something is very missing
in our defensive plan. We look very vulnerable. I just don't see us getting
better in that department. Watched the game today for a second time, and
it look like we certainly can use help in this department.

I am more concerned about the defense vulnerability than anything else in the team.

In today's football , championship are won by strong defensive teams ( not defensive game plan, which is different).

[Dubxl152]

I dont think that 90min players matter as much as solid players and competent subs.

We clearly have one of the most talented midfeilds in asia. Up front we have somewhat improved with the addition G Rezaei, but we must continue to look for talent. Majortiy of our goals are coming from midfeilders, now thats fine and dandy, but having midfeild constantly push up to score gets them tired faster and opens you up to a counter attack.

Defensivly we have woes, but then again whats new. We must find a solid capable backline. Our defenders need work and i dont understand how players who seem solid and perform well in multiple games suddenly drop all form and revert to crap. Hosseni is not playing @ the same lvl as AC, Agili, same, nosrati same all these players seem to be losing the intensity and quality with which they initially burst onto the scene.

I think our players are in pretty good shape and 90min is within reach for many of them, but who cares if you play 90mins but you play it like maast?
We will make it out of WCQ, but we must keep our feet on the ground and drastically improve this team. Daei has implemented many things into TM, but a clear concise team strategy hasn't been one of them.