What do we really want?

[Haf3z]

Since there are many members who question Branko Ivanovic's managerial abilities after each Team Melli practice or game, and since I'm both positive and sceptical about him in general i though it would be nice to know what we really expect from a Team Melli coach.

First of all it's obvious that we all want a coach that can form a winning team of 11 individuals. We all know that that we want Team Melli to play in the world cup every time it's arranged, and we want as many rofessional players based in Europe as possible.

The raw talent exists in Iran already. We have "unshaped" players such as Navidkia, Mobali, Oladi, Shojaei, Borhani and Kazemian. These players have the required talent to play for Team Melli but they have not yet had their real international breakthrough like some of the more experienced players (Karimi, Mahdavikia, Rezaei etc).

The only problem is that we need a coach that can bring all these talents together so that all of them can work for the same goal.
Who could that coach be? I think we all can agree on the fact that Branko probably isn't the right man to lead Team Melli to the next World Cup in South Africa.

Which properties can we expect to see in our future coach/coaches?
What sould IFF prioritate when it is time to appoint a new coach to lead Team Melli?
Someone who is "khareji"?
- Not necessarily.
But why not? We could need a new Guus Hiddink or Dick Advocaat.

I would personally like to see someone with a great sense of authority and dignity. Someone who is confident in what he is doing. Someone like Wenger, Mourinho, Ferguson and even Capello. This person does not have to be French, Scottish, Portuguese or Italian. He might as well be Iranian. As long as it's not Mayeli Kohan .

No but seriously, the next Team Melli coach should be someon with the earlier mentioned attributes. A man who can boost the players' confidence and morale with his personality and presence. That would be really good.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that Branko is the bad guy. I'm not saying that he's a wimp, because that's not my opinion in this matter. I know that many think this but not me. Branko has done a fair job during his 4-5 years in Iran, and I wonder if any available coach would be able to achieve better things with Team Melli than him.

Anyway, I think that IFF should put out an ideal profile over what properties they desire to find in the future Team Melli coach. Not just hiring some guy from Europe just to seem impressive. Maybe someone in Iran could do the same job better, or maybe I'm wrong .

[faraz]

This is what I WANT:

- team selections based on TALENT and PEFORMANCE, and NOT PAST PERFORMANCE, or RESPECT in the footballing world, or HABIT.

- more attacking formation. I'm not too satisfied when Teymourian, Alavi and Nekounam all take the field at the same time. Again, just personal opinion. There may be advantages that I clearly do not see.

- faster football. I generally believe the pace of Iranian soccer has slowed down.

- a demanding coach. Someone who expects more from the players and is honest about their performances. I hate it when a coach says "everything was okay". I don't care if a coach has WON the World Cup, I believe there are always flaws and the fact that after every match, Branko says "the game went according to plan, or the game was just fine" does bug me.

Now on the flip side, I believe that Branko has also strengthened our team in many different areas.

- dead ball situations

- getting the results when it matters (this is by far the most important, and i can critique him as much as I want but this little fact will always be there to eat away at me)

- possesion oreinted game, patient, not forcing anything

- there is more poise and our team is able to fight back now from being scored on (a huge mental problem that our team had in the past was that once one goal got by, the nerves, the anger and the frustration would take over and we'd look like the Toronto Amateur squad).

All in all, I am confused as to where I stand regarding this issue. I do want a lot of improvements for our team, but I must be intelligent enough to understand the limitations of our football.

[Darvish11]

I think the best choice will be a south american coach, preferably argentine or Brazilian. That is because they have the same style of play as iran; they focus more on the technical aspect game (technical means dribbling and that kind of stuff, right?), not this crossing and long passing game that Branko brings to the team. The coach needs to take advantage of the strengths of our players.

[Haf3z]

This is what I WANT:
- team selections based on TALENT and PEFORMANCE, and NOT PAST PERFORMANCE, or RESPECT in the footballing world, or HABIT.
- more attacking formation. I'm not too satisfied when Teymourian, Alavi and Nekounam all take the field at the same time. Again, just personal opinion. There may be advantages that I clearly do not see.
- faster football. I generally believe the pace of Iranian soccer has slowed down.
- a demanding coach. Someone who expects more from the players and is honest about their performances. I hate it when a coach says "everything was okay". I don't care if a coach has WON the World Cup, I believe there are always flaws and the fact that after every match, Branko says "the game went according to plan, or the game was just fine" does bug me.
Now on the flip side, I believe that Branko has also strengthened our team in many different areas.
- dead ball situations
- getting the results when it matters (this is by far the most important, and i can critique him as much as I want but this little fact will always be there to eat away at me)
- possesion oreinted game, patient, not forcing anything
- there is more poise and our team is able to fight back now from being scored on (a huge mental problem that our team had in the past was that once one goal got by, the nerves, the anger and the frustration would take over and we'd look like the Toronto Amateur squad).
All in all, I am confused as to where I stand regarding this issue. I do want a lot of improvements for our team, but I must be intelligent enough to understand the limitations of our football.

Good points Faraz jaan. I fully agree with you. You're right about the demanding part and the thing about selecting the team. We need someone with more charisma and a strong character.
This doesn't mean that I don't support Branko at the moment though. He's doing his job according to the preferences and abilities that he has. It's not easy to work in an "isolated" country and culture you are a unfamiliar with. He's doing what he can.

[Doctor DOOM]

excellent thread and question hafez jan.

--------------------------

I wouldnt venture on to talk about the next 5 years, as it is too far away.

based on this fact, I doubt we'd get our WC-coach anytime soon.

we'll have a couple of temporary coaches as transient ones to get us near the WCQ's for 2010 , and then IFF is going to hire THE coach for that one.

but I may be wrong too.
and I digress.

what I want?

very simple things:

1- first and fore-most is TEAMWORK.
a team may be jam-packed with brilliant individual stars , but fail to gel , and that affects the performance.
how many times have we seen a team devoid of any stars perform & display quality football, and even beat those with the stars ?

now, to achieve teamwork is not easy.
it needs time and effort.
it need knowledge and consistency.
whoever the coach may be, he ought to be given enough time to get these right.

branko has had this time, and even more !
in fact he's been working with the same players for such a long time !
yet we dont see this teamwork.

we can either blame it on our players for being total retards and incompetent idiots, who just cant learn proper football and their intelligence is below average.

but then that wouldnt fit reality. coz we DO see many of them shine and perform excellently in their clubs under other coaches.
compare karimi of pre-bayern era , who was under branko for 4 years...... and the karimi we saw after a couple of months under magath.
so it cant be the players.

so WHERE is the snag?

-------------------------

2- first we oughyt to know what is Iranian football and what is its NATURE.
are we a defensive minded ppl, with plenty of players who love playing defense ?
or are we known for our attacking prowess and have become this major power in asia DUE TO OUR ATTACKING FOOTBALL ... be it pre-revolution, or especially our renaissence in 1996 ( under another attack minded coach, MK ) ?

so my question is :
do you use a grocer to design a computer?
do you use an engoneer to sell grocery ?

under branko we have lost almost all our instincts and our links to what made us into a powerful asian team !
evident in our total and miserable inability to score , even against weakest of teams like n korea, bahrain, laos, taiwan, panama, macedonia's B team, QPR, ..... ( the list is way too long !! )
( and plz dont waste my time and yours by coming up with little "sparks" of exception. what is the NORM here ? )

ok.
we have sacrificed our strenghts for what?
have we become such a solid defensive team?
have we become so proficient in our defenses that teams , no matter how strong ( even by ASIAN standards ) , are just unable to penetrate us?

answer can be found in : macedonia's B team, oman, qpr, korea's B team, ........ !!!

the phrase "falling between the stools" fits perfectly !!

------------------------

3- as faraz rightfully said, a team selection based on PRESENT form and performance.
not based on past records.
I dont think I need to expound on this one , coz we all know what it means.

have we seen this from branko?


-------------------------

4- perseverence is good.
but when it has enough examples and reasons to back it up.

perseverence and insistence on wrong choices and wrong moves, time and again, is not only bad, but extremely harmful.

plenty of threads on this one.

branko has been the latter, and not the former !

----------------------

5- a coach that can be flexible.
a coach that has enough technical accumen to show this dynamism and flexibility in his arrangements, tactics and strategies.
we all know each opponent and team is different from the next.
( and we dont need a Phd , like some ppl, to know this basic fact )

what boggles the mind is seeing the same ONE-DIMENSIONAL tactics and formation and ... against one and all opponents, no matter if they are germany, korea or taiwan !!!!!!!!!

maybe he knows only ONE set of formation and ONE kind of tactics and ONE .... !!!
which makes him severely lacking in versatility and usefulness in dealing with different threats and teams !

--------------------

more to come later.

[Haf3z]

excellent thread and question hafez jan.

--------------------------

I wouldnt venture on to talk about the next 5 years, as it is too far away.

based on this fact, I doubt we'd get our WC-coach anytime soon.

we'll have a couple of temporary coaches as transient ones to get us near the WCQ's for 2010 , and then IFF is going to hire THE coach for that one.

but I may be wrong too.
and I digress.

what I want?

very simple things:

1- first and fore-most is TEAMWORK.
a team may be jam-packed with brilliant individual stars , but fail to gel , and that affects the performance.
how many times have we seen a team devoid of any stars perform & display quality football, and even beat those with the stars ?

now, to achieve teamwork is not easy.
it needs time and effort.
it need knowledge and consistency.
whoever the coach may be, he ought to be given enough time to get these right.

branko has had this time, and even more !
in fact he's been working with the same players for such a long time !
yet we dont see this teamwork.

we can either blame it on our players for being total retards and incompetent idiots, who just cant learn proper football and their intelligence is below average.

but then that wouldnt fit reality. coz we DO see many of them shine and perform excellently in their clubs under other coaches.
compare karimi of pre-bayern era , who was under branko for 4 years...... and the karimi we saw after a couple of months under magath.
so it cant be the players.

so WHERE is the snag?

-------------------------

2- first we oughyt to know what is Iranian football and what is its NATURE.
are we a defensive minded ppl, with plenty of players who love playing defense ?
or are we known for our attacking prowess and have become this major power in asia DUE TO OUR ATTACKING FOOTBALL ... be it pre-revolution, or especially our renaissence in 1996 ( under another attack minded coach, MK ) ?

so my question is :
do you use a grocer to design a computer?
do you use an engoneer to sell grocery ?

under branko we have lost almost all our instincts and our links to what made us into a powerful asian team !
evident in our total and miserable inability to score , even against weakest of teams like n korea, bahrain, laos, taiwan, panama, macedonia's B team, QPR, ..... ( the list is way too long !! )
( and plz dont waste my time and yours by coming up with little "sparks" of exception. what is the NORM here ? )

ok.
we have sacrificed our strenghts for what?
have we become such a solid defensive team?
have we become so proficient in our defenses that teams , no matter how strong ( even by ASIAN standards ) , are just unable to penetrate us?

answer can be found in : macedonia's B team, oman, qpr, korea's B team, ........ !!!

the phrase "falling between the stools" fits perfectly !!

------------------------

3- as faraz rightfully said, a team selection based on PRESENT form and performance.
not based on past records.
I dont think I need to expound on this one , coz we all know what it means.

have we seen this from branko?


-------------------------

4- perseverence is good.
but when it has enough examples and reasons to back it up.

perseverence and insistence on wrong choices and wrong moves, time and again, is not only bad, but extremely harmful.

plenty of threads on this one.

branko has been the latter, and not the former !

----------------------

5- a coach that can be flexible.
a coach that has enough technical accumen to show this dynamism and flexibility in his arrangements, tactics and strategies.
we all know each opponent and team is different from the next.
( and we dont need a Phd , like some ppl, to know this basic fact )

what boggles the mind is seeing the same ONE-DIMENSIONAL tactics and formation and ... against one and all opponents, no matter if they are germany, korea or taiwan !!!!!!!!!

maybe he knows only ONE set of formation and ONE kind of tactics and ONE .... !!!
which makes him severely lacking in versatility and usefulness in dealing with different threats and teams !

--------------------

more to come later.

Thank you for your interesting post DRDOOM jaan. I'll try to analyze this and come with a few opinions myself.

[Haf3z]

excellent thread and question hafez jan.

1- first and fore-most is TEAMWORK.
a team may be jam-packed with brilliant individual stars , but fail to gel , and that affects the performance.
how many times have we seen a team devoid of any stars perform & display quality football, and even beat those with the stars ?

Very true. We have many talented players, both young and more experienced ones. The problem the last years has been the thing you're talking about, teamwork.
But, I'd like to say that it's been ok over all, I mean since 2001 Team Melli has only become better, but not in the tempo we would like to see.

now, to achieve teamwork is not easy.
it needs time and effort.
it need knowledge and consistency.
whoever the coach may be, he ought to be given enough time to get these right.

Correct, we've seen enough consistency in TM the last few years. The same players are being called up, but their performances haven't been of satisfying standards. An exception would be the latest nominations for the Costa Rica game where Iman Mobali was left out.
Anyway, I'm glad that this consistency has lead to further development for players like Nekounam and Kaebi.

but then that wouldnt fit reality. coz we DO see many of them shine and perform excellently in their clubs under other coaches.
compare karimi of pre-bayern era , who was under branko for 4 years...... and the karimi we saw after a couple of months under magath.
so it cant be the players.

I'm not sure that I agree here. Karimi wasn't a mediocre player during his pre-Bayern era. He was AFC player of the year and a very useful player for TM in 2004. Now he is somehow more restricted due to a more tactically controlled system where he must adapt to the existing systems and not the other way around.
Even though Ali Karimi hasn't been as good as he was 2004, I think he's shown the world that he isn't some third class footballer from the mid east. He's done a remarkable job in Bundesliga and Champions League, regarding the fact that it's his first season on this high level and that he is 27 years old.

so my question is :
do you use a grocer to design a computer?
do you use an engoneer to sell grocery ?

under branko we have lost almost all our instincts and our links to what made us into a powerful asian team !
evident in our total and miserable inability to score , even against weakest of teams like n korea, bahrain, laos, taiwan, panama, macedonia's B team, QPR, ..... ( the list is way too long !! )
( and plz dont waste my time and yours by coming up with little "sparks" of exception. what is the NORM here ? )

See it from this point of view, many teams play with walls of flesh. Sweden has a very disciplined defence for instance. Not even world class teams score many goals on them!

3- as faraz rightfully said, a team selection based on PRESENT form and performance.
not based on past records.
I dont think I need to expound on this one , coz we all know what it means.

have we seen this from branko?

Again, I agree on this point!

4- perseverence is good.
but when it has enough examples and reasons to back it up.

perseverence and insistence on wrong choices and wrong moves, time and again, is not only bad, but extremely harmful.

plenty of threads on this one.

branko has been the latter, and not the former !

I'd like to ask you to specify it for me please.

5- a coach that can be flexible.
a coach that has enough technical accumen to show this dynamism and flexibility in his arrangements, tactics and strategies.
we all know each opponent and team is different from the next.
( and we dont need a Phd , like some ppl, to know this basic fact )

what boggles the mind is seeing the same ONE-DIMENSIONAL tactics and formation and ... against one and all opponents, no matter if they are germany, korea or taiwan !!!!!!!!!

maybe he knows only ONE set of formation and ONE kind of tactics and ONE .... !!!
which makes him severely lacking in versatility and usefulness in dealing with different threats and teams !

Anyway, it's been very interesting discussing this with you.

Cheers.

//Siamak

[Dr.shark]

What we need is a good brazilian coach because he would understand how we feel and will understand our style of the game ( attacking, going one on one, short passes.......) He will also know how to use those points and show us. this coach must also be able to teach our players how to work as a team in a way that each player brings thier skill to help the other players on his team not hurt the other players on his team.
this coach must also understand football and how & what todays football players need in order to be ready for big games like world cup, Asian cup....
we need a coach that will work with the coaches we have in the I.P.L so that the best players are picked for TM. He needs to let I.P.L coaches know the weaknesses that he sees in our players so that they can work with them and get them ready for TM games as we know I.P.L games stop when our TM plays.
we need a choach that will help bild some new good coaches in Iran by showing us what A good coach is to do.
We need a coach that will stand up to bullys and will stand his ground not put people in the game because that is what he was told to do
we need a coach that has more then one plan. we need a coach that will tell our players how to play a strong game in front of arab team just like how we play a stronge game infront of big name teams. we do not want to lose to teams like oman, qatar, bahrain, u.a.e, jordan, k.s.a ......
those teams are below us we need a coach that will make our players feel that they are just as good as the stars in europe so that our players can go out their and give it all they have and not hold back.

[Haf3z]

What we need is a good brazilian coach because he would understand how we feel and will understand our style of the game ( attacking, going one on one, short passes.......) He will also know how to use those points and show us. this coach must also be able to teach our players how to work as a team in a way that each player brings thier skill to help the other players on his team not hurt the other players on his team.
this coach must also understand football and how & what todays football players need in order to be ready for big games like world cup, Asian cup....
we need a coach that will work with the coaches we have in the I.P.L so that the best players are picked for TM. He needs to let I.P.L coaches know the weaknesses that he sees in our players so that they can work with them and get them ready for TM games as we know I.P.L games stop when our TM plays.
we need a choach that will help bild some new good coaches in Iran by showing us what A good coach is to do.
We need a coach that will stand up to bullys and will stand his ground not put people in the game because that is what he was told to do
we need a coach that has more then one plan. we need a coach that will tell our players how to play a strong game in front of arab team just like how we play a stronge game infront of big name teams. we do not want to lose to teams like oman, qatar, bahrain, u.a.e, jordan, k.s.a ......
those teams are below us we need a coach that will make our players feel that they are just as good as the stars in europe so that our players can go out their and give it all they have and not hold back.

Thanks . Interesting. I don't know much about Valdir Viera, but did he have these properties?