This is a Test for TM and Iranian Football

[ARYA]

Viva, here's some food for thought!!

"Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted the indifference of those who should have known better the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most that has made it possible for evil to triumph."

"Most people would rather be certain they're miserable, than risk being happy."

"He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice."

[VivaItalia]

viva,
don't kid yourself into believing we hane no problems. For me - the Unconditional love and support starts when the team gets to Germany - until then I will do anythiing I can to fix the problems - and to improve things.

Amirza khan,

Did I ever say "we have no problem"? please show me when and where? If you could quote me, I am willing to 1- give my Moderation right to whomever you like 2- leave the website and kiss everyones feet here.

So, please do not kid yourself and make up words from my mouth, thank you my friend.

No. I also believe that whiners remain whiner and supporters remain supporter. You along DD and some others will remain in the first group, always and forever; Never happy about anything. I look at the half filled glass and smile, you look at the half empty and cry, try to fight, win and fill it up (even if you have no access to any water sources, you just try to fill it up with urine so it'll at least look filled!)

[Doctor DOOM]

I cant understand why ppl confuse two DISTINCT issues :

1- supporting the team

2- wanting better quality


I mean, exactly how hard is it to keep these two distinct issues separate?
believe me, it is NOT hard.

so while viva jan, tries to say if you criticise the coach, it means you dont support the team and wish them ill, it NOT necessarily is true.

can anyone support the team and wish them well and cheer for them, WHILE wanting better quality and performances, and correction of all its defects?

how hard is this concept to grasp?

anything can be spun.
one may be able to spin it this way too:
if you keep quiet while the team is suffering ( quality wise ) , you are dealing it great harm.
to stand and watch a man suffer with disease, and say nothing ( just becoz we like the doctor !!!!! ) , to me is criminal and extremely narrow-minded.


na aghayoon.
we all love and support the team.

some of us dont bother to question things as we are afraid things may get worse - not necessarily true , .......... and some of us question things and want many issues to improve and get corrected. and if we dont see that happening to our beloved TM, we criticise ppl who are in charge of such matters for their inabilities ( or refusal ).

can any SANE man say either party loves the team less?
no.


however, it shows one's extent ( or lack of it ) of maturity to start labeling those who dont agree with him.
and speak as if only THEY care about the TM and others dont.
which reminds me of Bush's speach : you are either with us or against us ( which is supposed to mean against liberty, justice, freedom, blah blah, blah ... ) !!!
how many ppl follow that kind of thought?

[VivaItalia]

One problem could be that you guys don't consider Branko as part of the team.

How could you say "oh, I don't like this part of it, lets change it regardless of what other people want" this is an absolute selfish act. you have absolutely the same amount of share that I have from TM, nothing more and nothing less. But you are trying to take away my rights to satisfy yours. this is a crime.

Now you tell me DD jan, there are 100 people exist, 75 of them like to eat oranges and 25 of them like to eat apples, and we have only one choice (and not two!) either to buy orange or apple. What do you choose to buy? apple?!

Now, if you go to sky and come back to earth 1000 times a day, the majority still want Branko. Also the majority want changes and improvements from the same Branko and no one else. the same majority are sick and tiered of whiners and morale-damagers. They wanna hear good things plus constructive criticism, not criticism coming from aversion, not criticism from scumbags Mayeli-kohan and Jalali.

I call a person a supporter when I see him pointing out both good and bad things. so far it has been all whines and hostility toward the man and some players.

All I know is that criticism should not be made the way you guys do it. It must be in a friendly manner and should not be demoralizing.

[Mr.Good]

I have a couple of points and would like your opinions on them..

Some of us here want a new coach, a very famous one. Now this coach comes and picks the same Nosrati, the same Mirza, the same formation for the team, then what? are we going to change him again because he did not pick our faviorte player?

The coach has the right to pick any system of play and pick any group of players that suite his plans. Who are we to dictate him his job. It is up to IFF to chnage him if he cannot meet the goals set for him. So far Branko has met his goals. We cannot stop him from completing his plans.
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He said the work is divided in three phases.
** Phase one was to qualify for the world cup and he delivered. (Whats your point against this?)

** Phase two is to prepare the team for the world cup. He did not finish the preparation yet. The work just started. He needs to get infos on the teams we are going to face and set plans and tactics to face them. He did not take the first step yet and there are people whinning about it already. TM does not have friendlies to play, blame the IFF, our goverement..

** Phase three will be a good performance in the world cup. Branko's team has always showed good performances in tournaments because he had time to prepare the team for it. Players come from different teams with different tactics and systems of plays. They need time to play well toghether. after all they are Human, not machines.

Before Busan Branko had the team for a month, played a WAFF championship in preparation in which the team did not show a good performance, and finally got the gold medal in Busan, Every one hailed Branko for the success.

Before AC in China, again Branko had the team for a month, played a WAFF, then had a good performance in China and won the Bronze medal. Every one hailed Branko for that also. Remember, just before AC we had the WCQ with Jordan in Tehran which we lost, majority wanted Branko's head for that loss, why every one shifted 180 degrees after that.

[Amirza]

"Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted the indifference of those who should have known better the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most that has made it possible for evil to triumph."

"Most people would rather be certain they're miserable, than risk being happy."

"He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice."

Exellent post Arya Jaan - I hope members read it twice.

One problem I see with our football fans - is the fact that they don't quiet grasp what professional football is all about. They fail to realize today's football is a science in which tactics, plans, and plays are keys, while evey square meter of the field in every game is accounted for. While many of us are crying over our "mindless" football - they are still hoping such factors as Player Gheyrat, Roohieh, players getting to know each other in friendly games,.... bring them success.

Our fans need to understand in today's pro football all motivation related factors combined account for maybe 5% of the game - and even at that - they need to recognize what keeps a pro footballer motivated. A player like Kazemian which has not been paid his salary for nearly a full year - has little motivation to be jeoperdized by any newspaper article.

[zzgloo]

Although,hireing of real madrid coach was just a roomer....yet, " ta nabashad chizaki, mardam nabandand ..........!!!! "
I wonder, if Branko thinks of this roomer as just a roomer....and his trust in his job security and IFF.

[Doctor DOOM]

1- no rights are being trampled upon if we ask ppl in charge to fix the problems, or if they cant, to ship out.
I am assuming we all want the good of the TEAM, and not any person or part of it.

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2- branko ke sahleh … even if Daei is found to be unable to help the team, I would want him to sit out.

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3- the imaginary 75 ( coz we know it is less than that now. And far far less, elsewhere ) out of 100 , have their own rights.
So do the 25.
No-1 shd say neither side should speak their minds.
The issue of going against the majority comes into play when I become the head of IFF and have the power to “exercise” my will, albeit, contrary to the majority’s.
THEN, ppl can question me and demand me following the majority.

( and not always majority is on the side of right. Ask those who voted “aye” to I.R.I. 28 yrs back )

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4- as for the “majority” we all know it is not as big as it was, and shd the trend continue, they would find themselves in MINORITY !

this actual lessening of the % shd tell us a lot of things.
Now, if we want to DENY reality and refute or ignore it, it is a diff matter.
But there IS a REASON for this decrease.

Why not consider this REASON, for a moment?


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5- I don’t see any whiners here.
All I see is a set of ppl who are happy with the current situation at TM and its performances.
And another set who are NOT happy and want more.

Labeling ppl , just becoz they don’t share our view is not an attractive quality.

Becoz once the barrier is broken, we shd expect the same treatment from others too.
For example, these ppl who are accused of “whinning” , may turn around and call those who take whatever that is given to them, no matter how defective and not utter a beep, “sheep” or “too sari khor” !

And as they say: an eye for an eye, makes the whole world blind.

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6- friendly is as it sees or receives.

A very important point.

One side discusses its views.
If the other tries ridiculing, labeling, accusing, berating, name-calling, …., only an utter fool would expect the first party to keep quiet and not react.

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7- ey baba …. Mrgood jan, you’ve gone back to the (now) age-old question of “have we tried and tested all our options” and come up empty?

There are a gezillion threads on this.
When for more than 2 yrs we see only 2-3 ppl tested for a position, and more often than not, they fail in that role.
And yet, no-one else is seriously tested , one starts to wonder and asks questions.

Yes, some may not ask.
But then again, some WILL.
And thank god for that.

If another coach comes and SERIOUSLY tests a few others for these troubled spots, and finally settles with the same players, then so be it.
But we know we have NOT tested anyone else seriously.

some will argue for it, some against it.
The fact is in almost all matches of TM, we see only the USUAL 2 or 3 players given ample time to perform. And they fail more often than not.
To persist with a failed option, WITHOUT testing others forces many to question branko.

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8- phase 3 is in SERIOUS jeopardy.
This is apparent from the trend of performances by the team.

To deny the REALITY, is just ………. ( u may fill in the blank urself )

[Amirza]

Some of us here want a new coach, a very famous one. Now this coach comes and picks the same Nosrati, the same Mirza, the same formation for the team, then what? are we going to change him again because he did not pick our faviorte player?

Wrong -
we don't just want a new coach for the sake of having a new coach. We want someone who can bring about some sense and logic into our football. We want organization, planning. Now there are top class coaches who can bring it all while even influencing IFF into having better structure and organization - but for the sake of this WC, I personaly am willing to settle for someone who can bring new tactics and plays - so we are no longer limited ONLY to long crosses to score. I want someone who has the ability to analyze the opposition and prepare the best possible team and gameplan to defeat that opposition. Note that if the ultimate gameplan requires the services of Nosrati and Mirza - I will have no problems with that. Remember - Great coaches don't make teams out of the players they have - they think of the team they want and get they players who fit into their team.

[Doctor DOOM]

Wrong -
we don't just want a new coach for the sake of having a new coach. We want someone who can bring about some sense and logic into our football. We want organization, planning. Now there are top class coaches who can bring it all while even influencing IFF into having better structure and organization - but for the sake of this WC, I personaly am willing to settle for someone who can bring new tactics and plays - so we are no longer limited ONLY to long crosses to score. I want someone who has the ability to analyze the opposition and prepare the best possible team and gameplan to defeat that opposition. Note that if the ultimate gameplan requires the services of Nosrati and Mirza - I will have no problems with that. Remember - Great coaches don't make teams out of the players they have - they think of the team they want and get they players who fit into their team.

now, this is what I'd call a "perfect post".

[ramingeles2000]

everyone here is overrating what a coach can do...especially with less than 6 months to prepare...cut the crap guys...branko has been in iran for SO long that even if he is a terrible coach, he knows enough that he has put at least one of the best squads possible out there. give me a break. there's only so much we can do. arab nations get th ebest coaches all the time and they still suck. jesus christ guys, the difference between 0 points and 5 points in our group isnt the coach, its how we play on that day and whether fortune and opportunity come together.

[zzgloo]

I for one, can not live by hope of good fortun and luck..!,niether any oneels who looks for progress.....
have you all ever wondered,why Nigeria, and cameroon, and sengal....did not qualify ?????, they replaced thier good forign coaches for domestic ones.!!!

[Doctor DOOM]

يادداشت
انگار مرغ آقاى برانكو هنوز يك پا دارد
على رئيسى
برانكو ايوانكوويچ، سرمربى مورد پسند سازمان و فدراسيون فوتبال براى آنكه بتواند اين دلپسندى را به جامعه فوتبال و دوستداران فوتبال تسرى دهد، بايد نگاه تازه اى به سياست هاى قبلى خود بيندازد.
برانكو پس از بازيهاى دوستانه تهران و باخت به مقدونيه اين فرض را براى خود به وجود آورد كه نياز به تغيير رفتار دارد.
اما به محض اينكه تا حدودى آب ها از آسياب افتاد و زير پاهاى خود را محكم تر از آن روزها ديد، در موضعگيرى هاى جديدش چنان وانمود مى كند كه او قصد ندارد تا در اين مدت باقيمانده تا جام جهانى روال و شيوه گذشته خود را تغيير دهد.
او خوب مى داند كه تمام منتقدان او، روزهاى پايانى عمر مربيگرى او در تهران را پيش رو دارند، بايد با آنها به نوعى كنار آمد تا اين چند ماه باقيمانده هم سپرى شود. در اين موضعگيرى توجه به خواست عمومى مردم از درجه اهميت ويژه اى برخوردار است، اما آقاى برانكو، اين ضرورت را نيز حس نمى كند.
او تلويحاً از بازيكنان قبلى خود دفاع مى كند چشم به روى بهترين هاى ليگ مى بندد و حرف هاى او درباره كريم باقرى را مى شود نمونه اى از اين بى توجهى قلمداد كرد.
وقتى درباره يكى از بازيكنان شاخص ليگ، اينگونه اظهار نظر مى شود، در واقع تعريف تيم ملى دچار اشكال مى شود.
اگر بپذيريم كه تيم ملى، تيمى است مردمى كه از بين بهترين هاى فوتبال يك مملكت انتخاب شده است آن وقت اين پرسش به وجود مى آيد كه اين بهترين ها در كجا جاى دارند و چگونه است كه ضعيف ترين ها در بعضى از پست ها جاى بهترين ها را اشغال مى كنند. براى علاقه مندان و دوستداران تيم ملى اين ضرورت نيز به وجود مى آيد كه نسبت به آينده تيم ملى نگران باشند.
اگر ما نتوانيم، زبده ترين نفرات خود را به مصاف بهترين هاى دنيا بفرستيم اگر ما در فاصله باقيمانده نتوانيم انگيزه رقابتى در نزد نفرات خود را بالا ببريم خواسته يا ناخواسته رشد تيم ملى خود را به نوعى متوقف يا كند كرده ايم، اگر بازيكنان ما خود را در دايره رقابت حس نكنند و اگر بازيكنان ما در پست هاى خود احساس امنيت خاطر داشته باشند و در رقابت قرار نگيرند، شرايط بهتر شدن رشد كيفى و رو به جلو رفتن از تيم ملى ما سلب خواهد شد.
لذا بايد توجه داد كه تصميم گيرندگان تيم ملى براى برانكو حرف هاى گذشته را مرور كنند

[ARYA]

Karimi has already made his opinion known to the world in his following statement:

"Q: What do you think about the brilliant players of the Iranian league, for example Karim Bagheri?

Karimi: Many people ask me about Karim these days. I have said my opinion and again I will repeat that this is just my own opinion. Karim Bagheri is one of the most outstanding players in Iran today, and he has been able to put an end to the crisis in Perspolis defence. Apart from defending well, he has also been the force behind many Perspolis attacks. If he continues this way and keeps his fitness, he can help in the defense and even in the midfield of the national team. Apart from Karim Bagheri, there are also other players who are outstanding and are in ideal form. We need to make the best use of these players who are in good form, and the national team coach, Branko Ivankovic has insisted that the doors of the national team are open until the last day and no coach will ignore players like Bagheri who are at their peak."

Let's see what Branko will do in the next couple of Friendlies and at the AFC qualification round.