Iran - Saudi Post match comments

[Masoud_A]

Thank god we have F+ forum for times like this.

3- Player selection:
Ali Daie was supposedly playing with a 4-5-1 or a 4-4-1-1 system which changed to 4-4-2 in the end. But did he select the right tools for this tactic??? certainly not. Any football fan knows that a 4-4 system relies HEAVILY on wingers and wing backs. these players should have certain attributes: fast, good crossing ability, good stamina, ability to run with ball and continuously overlap the wing and send crosses into the box from the corners.
Which Iranian (TM level) players fit that description well these days?
-Mahdavikia
-Kazemian
-Madanchi
-Nikbakht (at least he used to)
-Kaebi
so as you can see we don't have that many options to start with. Still, Daie refused to use ANY of those players and went with Zandi and Teymorian instead. Teymorian is so awful that he deserves a TM bench spot at most. Zandi is simply not built for the wing position...simple as that.
as a result our attacking power, from the wings was ZERO. without strong wings in a 4-4-2 system, you literally lose your ability to plan any attacks.
Daie did well to partially solve this problem with his substitutions but that was not enough. For those who say we don't need Mahdavikia on our right, think again.

I believe we should first find a left wing, because I think Madanchi didnt do good in this match, atleast on our right we can use Rezaei or Shojaei who showed some good moves and cooperation with Gholamnejad ( something Kaebi and Kia used to do for us very good), Im not gonna say we dont need Kia because you can never reject him, but do we need an out of form Kia?
No we dont need an out of form Kia.
Back to Left side, Zare was aweful, on def and on attack, we can say that Madanchi's inadequate performance was partly because of his incompetence.
I have to agree with you on Zandi, yes he cant play a winger at all.

Taking everything into consideration, I gotta say our left side is effed up while we need some mending to do about our right side.

4-Psychological readiness:
Daie has played Saudi Arabia numerous times. He has also played in many critical WCQ matches. Still, I was surprised to see our players affected by the atmosphere and psychologically lost. Our players were nervous. they didn't know what they wanted. It was as if they didn't expect such pressure and such atmosphere!! Daie should have addressed this issue. He should have explained to them that Saudi would come in with guns blazing, and our job is just to act like a levee against a hurricane-Coolly hold and deflect the pressure.

I strongly disagree, You cant inject your experience through speech, even if Daei gave them a 1 hour speech just on the atmosphere still players new to TM and especially King Fahd stadium would get influenced.
Let me give you an example: Javad Nekounam couldnt deliver a pass or stop the ball properly for 30mins in the first half! I personally dont think Javad needs to be reminded of any stadium atmosphere by anyone as he have been and seen to every major stadium in Asia.

Considering the above I have to say Atmosphere getting into our players was beyond Daei's control.

---------------------------------------------------

Is he going to use Teymorian just because he plays in Engalnd? is he going to stubbornly select Saipa players in his rooster? How is he planning on making full use of Nekonam and Shojaie in his team? what are his plans for the wings? how about our strikers? Is Khatibi even good enough for IPL level? are strikers like Meydavoodi or Rafkhahi able to play at international level?
Is Aghili good enough for TM (I don't think so). Isn't it time to give Nosrati. Shakouri, or others a chance?

I agree with you that Teymourian is out of form and is there because of his name.
As long as they dont give us a strong reason not to its ok for me.
Aghili is even too good for our TM, I cant believe people want him out.
Give Nosrati a chance? Come on man last time he played everyone wanted his head, and I dont think anyone forgets his mortal mistakes in PP last season.

Will he go on searching for a few motivated, talented and in-from footballers in our league (like GR Rezaie)? How is he going to prepare the team psychologically?
Will he change his attitude towards the press, fans, and critics and admit that there is work to be done and there are changes to be made...or is he going to come back, more stubborn and proud than ever and boast about the performance and the result???

And most importantly:
HOW IS HE PLANNING TO GET THE 3 POINTS IN AZADI? Is he going to rely on luck and incidents? or does he actually have a plan to get the 3 points with minimum risk (the way Branko did it)

I dont know why you asking so many questions here? Because none of us know what goes on in Daei's mind

[Ali Chicago]

interesting points guys and since most of us here have mentioned the points to be mentioned, i felt i could say something that hasnt been addressed much.

i just wanted to make a comment about nekounam and why he "appeared" to not have a very good game.

today, iran played 4-4-2, with 1 DM, javad nekounam. this was wat many of us, including myeslf, wanted from the beginning and there was even a long thread discussing it and comparing it with the 4-2-3-1 formation and using 2 DMs.

.

Iran played 4-2-3-1
Ando and Nekoo were the two DMs. Despite what the two analysts on IRIB kept repeating. The change in the second half was Shoaji instead of playing in the center behind Hashemian, kind of pushed even more forward on the right, almost 4-2-2-2 (hasemian and Shojai).

Rahmati

Gholam nezhad Hosseini Aghili Zare

Ando Nekkoo

Rezai Zandi
Shojaii

Hashemian

The movement range Rezaie was longer and he at time was playing almost like a classic winger.

Even Fox Channel in US showed the same formation I mentioned above.

[purple_haze]

Iran played 4-2-3-1
Ando and Nekoo were the two DMs. Despite what the two analysts on IRIB kept repeating. The change in the second half was Shoaji instead of playing in the center behind Hashemian, kind of pushed even more forward on the right, almost 4-2-2-2 (hasemian and Shojai).

Rahmati

Gholam nezhad Hosseini Aghili Zare

Ando Nekkoo

Rezai Zandi
Shojaii

Hashemian

The movement range Rezaie was longer and he at time was playing almost like a classic winger.

Even Fox Channel in US showed the same formation I mentioned above.

But Ali jan I think Yashar is right about the first half, because Ando was no where to be seen in the middle and was constantly on the right side near the line and his change of position was noticable in the 2nd half because he was clearly playing more central and that's why he played somewhat better than the first half.

Aghili is even too good for our TM, I cant believe people want him out.
Give Nosrati a chance? Come on man last time he played everyone wanted his head, and I dont think anyone forgets his mortal mistakes in PP last season.

Masoud jan, Aghili is a decent defender individually and one of the best at IPL level, but at least not in pair with Hossini at TM. One of them has to sit out and right now Aghili is a little better than Hosseini. BUt both of them as a pair don't cut it internationally.

[Masoud_A]

Masoud jan, Aghili is a decent defender individually and one of the best at IPL level, but at least not in pair with Hossini at TM. One of them has to sit out and right now Aghili is a little better than Hosseini. BUt both of them as a pair don't cut it internationally.

We can always use the Sepahani duo
Aghili and Bengar.

[purple_haze]

We can always use the Sepahani duo
Aghili and Bengar.

Well, I don't know if that would be any improvement really because Bengar is essentially a copy of Hosseini. Maybe somewhat better ball control, but only comapred to Hosseini and instead with a tendency to make way too many fauls which is something Aghili is doing well on his own right now. If only Aghili would be a bit faster and used his brain a bit more (because I see the potential at least more than Hosseini) instead of resorting to over aggression all this would be fine. But his over aggression is just due to lack of speed and timing, which he could compensate for by being a bit smarter.

But overall as I said, he's still better than or should I say compared to both Hosseini and Bengar. The key is finding someone to pair up with him with speed and brain or at least one of those qualities.

[Martin-Reza]

Oh boy dark smell of sarcasem right across the big pond.
DD was effective in his campaign against Sadeghi. He has to work a bit harder to get rid of Zareh and then two for two. 50% ain't a bad record.

lol, but the point is that some people act as if Daei made about 5 beginners mistakes which were so obvious that everyone would have done better. Now that we got a draw in an away match against an Asian powerhouse rated higher than us by international sources, this means with a somewhat average coach (which Daei doesn't even seem to be) we must have thrashed them.

I really think that's unrealistic. We did well and that means the coach can't have done too much wrong. And surely only very very few things we could do better, if any at all.

[Doctor DOOM]

again, the same "sweeping the dirt under the rug" mentality.

covering mistakes and deficiencies by the numbers on the score-board.

honestly, how many of you all think the right midfield was even average, let alone above average? we had a gran tptal of 2 correct crosses from the right in the whole of 90+ minutes.
both crosses were from a stationary position. which means we had absolutely NO cross off a sprint, which subsequently means our right side mid never stretched the left defender to create a space between him and the central defenders.
we also had NO cut-back passes from the right side coming off the RW cutting in and passing back.
we didnt have any penetrations into the 8 from wide position also.
( I am not surprised by the replies, coz the same ppl claim a team doesnt need width !!! LOOLL )



Our defense was weak and got exposed time and again. a slightly more proficient team would have converted the other 3 chances ( 2 shots went past the goal post and the header above zareh's head ) ... not to mention the penalty call that could have been called also.

all this is becoz some of us fooled ourselves by looking at the score-lines against crappy waff teams and azerbaijan and kuwait and .... etc. and we're doing it AGAIN !!

absurd.

--------------

did it need 4 years of working under Lippi or Wenger to see the squad didnt have a right mid specialist and we were going to come up short in that post before the game? Did you have to be a coach to recognize this matter ? did you even need a crystal ball to see the future ?
NO.
It was OBVIOUS. it was predicted. it was discussed many many times.
and look what happened in the game: as predicted.


==================

btw, I think it was more like 4-1-3-1-1 ( as weird as it looks ) with rezaei occupying the space between the mid and VH. he was never on par or level with VH to give him lateral support. lateral support which would have pulled at least ONE defender off VH's back.

[yashar_fasihnia]

Iran played 4-2-3-1
Ando and Nekoo were the two DMs. Despite what the two analysts on IRIB kept repeating. The change in the second half was Shoaji instead of playing in the center behind Hashemian, kind of pushed even more forward on the right, almost 4-2-2-2 (hasemian and Shojai).
Rahmati
Gholam nezhad Hosseini Aghili Zare
Ando Nekkoo
Rezai Zandi
Shojaii
Hashemian
The movement range Rezaie was longer and he at time was playing almost like a classic winger.
Even Fox Channel in US showed the same formation I mentioned above.

sorry but i disagree, iran did play 4-4-2 diamond. irib, TV3 as well as tapesh (mehran molkara was the analyst also confirmed it).

----------------------------------------rahmati--------------------------------------------
----gholamnejad------hosseini----------------aghili--------------zare------------
--------------------------------------nekounam----------------------------------------
--------------------ando---------------------------------------zandi-------------------
----------------------------------------shojaei------------------------------------------
--------------------------rezaei-------------------------hashemian------------------


i watched the game replay today again on dubai sports, and im 100% sure it was 4-4-2 diamond. nekounam was our only DM with ando and zandi as our RM and LM respective and shojaei playing as playmaker behind the 2 strikers.


btw if mansoor is reading this thread, congratz to him! i think he has become quite a regular of the show and im sure exchanging ideas and opinions with someone as intelligent and expert like mehran molkara is a great experience! damet garm agha mansoor!

[BehzadB]

Tough place against a tough team.. We didn't look good at all in the first half, but improved in the second half. KSA wasn't in top form either.. a few bounces this way or that way, we could have won 3-1 or lost 4-1..

I think if the team improves on the sides (wings) specially the left side, we'll have no problem getting to the WC as one of the top two teams of the group.

Another area that I think needs some improvement is the central defense..

[zzgloo]

I am not proud ,I do not believe in the head coach of our TM, but I can not help it, ...and I will try to do my best,not to elianate some members here, who may get offended by members such as me !.....I will do my best to keep thier cyber freindship !

through out my life....I had never ever seen, our TM be out played so bad..the way TM was ,during the first half,against the saudi's.......Not even,against Portugal ,in the WC, had the opponanat had as many chances for Goal against us as the saudis did........and in my opinion, if it was not because of thier coach's mistake ( thanks God ),they would have continued the same on the secound half.

Every body, knew, what our streangth,against the saudi''s ,was.!...which was supposed to be our Midfield !.....but, ironicaly, it was our midfield that was dominated the most,during the first half.

Other than the desparate rush, to score ,in the last 25 minutes, the TM had no, cohesiveness......and never in the whole game, was any design noticeable with TM !.....while we were told,TM was prepared for the saudi's .and all these after many other qustionable TM outputs.

We keep,critisizeing our players....and players' selection....but,the fact of the matter is,....that,they,the players,have not been helped !!!.....
In the total ,view, the players can look good, if the the coach's game plan works !!.....and the players look bad, the other way around......

Plus, players eventualy lose respect, and thier beliefe in a coach ,whom has repeatedly been wrong by his assessments....and pre-evaluations of the opponanats.

.................

During the TM camps......TM ,has Mr. Human afazeli....and a Goalkeepers coach...and Mr.Daei...and no other assisstants,with between 35 to 50 players ...........while , our coach spends good amount of his energies and time to respond to hasheiehs he himself created....and while his experince and qualifications were in question to begin with............
Therefore, I conclude,TM is under coached !from different aspects!..time wise,quality,as well as quantity.
.....................

The fact that, there is nothing we can do about TM head coaching now !!!, does not change my beliefe !......and I am sorry, if this view offends some ,members !........I realy am !...........
But, I like all of us, jumped so high,with The Nekunam's beautiful Goal !

[yashar_fasihnia]

a bit offtopic but,

now that u say ur "long life" bahram jan, may i know how old u r??

i always wondered who the oldest member of PFDC was and for some reason, i thought its u (or perspolees) and i even told masoud. he said someone else though, but that person turned out to be in his late 20s not sure if masoud remembers that discussion of ours

[zzgloo]

a bit offtopic but,

now that u say ur "long life" bahram jan, may i know how old u r??

i always wondered who the oldest member of PFDC was and for some reason, i thought its u (or perspolees) and i even told masoud. he said someone else though, but that person turned out to be in his late 20s not sure if masoud remembers that discussion of ours

Do you want me to say it here ?....or can it be PM ?

[zzgloo]

Bahram jan with all due respect that's a bit emotional. Have you or anybody else considered the fact that we may not be as talented as we think of ourselves? At least the current team isn't exactly boiling with talent IMO. We sure do have some classy players, but compared to past teams and even compared to the Saudi's yesterday, we had very few who could match them in that department that we alway self proclaim to be best at in Asia.
Daei's player selections have always been questionable and in the Saudi match his initial player selection was almost catastrophic, but credit to him for rectifying most of his own primitive errors.

All in all I don't ever remember being so outclassed and made to look like a complete set of amateurs facing any asian teams to this degree before and I hope I don't live to see it again. Thank god for the ref, for our luck and our physical condition.

I really hope Mr Daei who showed good signs, which makes up for his mistakes in this match, really takes a look at our own league and revises his player selections, at least based on the opponent we're facing. On this very same line and as Hadi said, I too have to stress once more that unfortunately our defenders, neither Hosseini or Aghili are individualy that great, diverse or intelligent(football wise). They are good at IPL kevel but nothing to rely on totally for international level.
In a modern game, we often see a pair of central defenders, where one stands for brute force and muscle power, while the other should stand for intelligence and ball control apart from being a decent defender. Or at least one of them should be considerably fast. The pair of Aghil, Hosseini only cover the muscle and force part, but lack desperately at the rest. I even warned for this before the match in another topic.

The rest of the points have already been mentioned, but I needed to stress and beg for a revision on player selections.

Purple_haze jaan..
I also, had never seen, any team, let alone an arab team, to have so many chances of goal against our TM...not even, top European teams .
...They say, TM has more than 50 million supporters in Iran....where, people have very little els, to be enthusiastic about.....
It will be ,hugely sad....if this coach plays with so many people's aspirations !

[yashar_fasihnia]

Do you want me to say it here ?....or can it be PM ?

thats upto u, cos its ur confidential info not mine, but thanx for the pm anywayz.

[Doctor DOOM]

bahram jan, if you said this was the game TM was outplayed the most, then I think you may have missed the game at Melbourne.
bro, we were getting "mochalleh" in the first half.... or rather until that maniac or blessing in disguise or angel ( call him whatever u like ) , jumped on the net.
that 55-60 minutes were the absolute WORST case of TM ever being "out-played" ( an understatement if u ask me) .
it was like Mike Tyson boxing against an 11 yr old asthmatic girl !