Daei's bench

[Doctor DOOM]

I never could understand what they meant by "u gotta be a football expert to comment/critique" line, and I still cant.
I always said football's greatest appeal is in its simplicity & accessibility to ppl of all ages and all IQ levels. when you really bring it down to basics, it is a bunch of ppl trying to kick or head the ball away from one end of a given area, to the other end.
yes, it's got formation numbers, tactics, zones, and posts layered on top of that. but on the whole, nobody can say it is something like chess that needs really high IQ to understand.
so to say you gotta be an "expert" to be able to comment is just nonsense.

secondly, on many occasions, many of us have been far more lucid and factual that the ppl on the other side.
when someone counts the list of things that shd have been done by the right midfielder and were not done ( list is in one of those threads in general forum ) , the counter is some general comment that is more an "opinion" than fact and follows the same "blank check" philosophy.

when some of us list down the stats of a player who has played weak, the reply is again, another general comment which is only an opinion and mostly borne out of the same "blank check" phenomenon.

basically none of those arguments are countered by logical explanations. the reply is always "X knows better. so your words are wrong" !!

much like during branko days when many ppl talked ( read WARNED ) about over-reliance on only select few and branko's reluctance to spread his eggs rather than putting all of them in one basket, we were labeled all sorts of things. but all that was based on facts and it was NOT surprising to see it come back and bite our TM in the arse.

there are patterns in everything, becoz these deeds are borne out of human minds and human minds do follow their particular patterns.
now, some ppl see these patterns a bit earlier than some others. some see it when it has already reached its fruition.

[maij]

Allow me to express my views on the subject of expression of opinions.
Nothing is too complicated, when you are trained, experienced or certified in the subject. When people came to the flight Deck and saw hundreds of gauges, controls, indicators, lights and switches and asked if we know what are these for, the answer was a definite YES , else we would not be sitting in the seat and flying the beast. Almost everyone I experienced coming to the flight Deck did not believe that this could be so simple and possible!

Same goes to any profession. Be it a coach or a neurological surgeon.

Of course , one can pass a comment on flying , or a surgical operation , but there is a fine line , between a general comment and one that specifically goes through the mechanics of the event. A patient of yours may comment about how successful the operation was, but he cannot comment on why you used this tool or that medicine instead of using another type !

Got my drift?

BUT....

When you go deep into dissecting the team and referring to “Obvious and clear” mistakes, while such observation is a personal opinion of yours.

When you fail to realize that the coach is a professional and he probably spends all his time to go through shortcomings and failures, versus the part time that you spend analyzing event.

When you fail to admit that the coach is much much closer to the players, knows their physical and psychological conditions, opponents’ strength and weaknesses, discipline, injuries and other factors.

When you use speculations such as IF PLAYER X played in this position, we would have could have easily won the game, OR IF player Y is in this position, we will lose that match.

Then it becomes absurd.

BTW: When I say “You” I actually not referring to you per se but in general.

The reason we are here in these forums is to discus and criticize, game plans, coaches, players , strategies and even rumors and everything in between and if this is done with reasonable and sensible posts , then it is actually enjoyable.

[maij]

And one more thing as far as you are concerned Doc.

You have been constantly criticizing TM coaches as far as I remember, and predicting doomsday scenarios for Team Melli and then coming up with statements like " See ...I told you so , I was right , Branko failed "

Without accepting that such failures that your refer to is ACTUALLY the end product of a whole football system , NOT and individual failure of a solitary person like a coach.

Hamin Beza'at ma hast.


I said it before and will say it again. If the fortunes of a nation football is dependent on the National team coach , then Saudi Arabia could have won the World Cup with their money that can buy the best of them.

English Football , arguably the best football system in the World has failed to win a World Cup except once at home as far back as 1966, and the second best system (arguably) , the Spanish , have not even won a single World Cup. NOW.... how much is these failures attributed to their coaches and is it because such a solid footballing system cannot produce a decent coach to supplement their stars ??

[zzgloo]

In our bala deedeh country, this attitude of Gholdor parasti and "strong man", "Iron-fist" rule has a historical precedence, I can comprehened where it is coming from but as long as I am alive, I am against it.

Ali Jaan.......This attitude you are reffering to, has been largely exasibated,during the islamic republic.....and , The hezbullahis have made a life with it.......even , if they are a " Door man ", they would make a kingdom out " That door ",and make sure, everyone understands,the importance of that door., and will make every one pay to pass through the door....etc,etc...
...........Daei, is just another example of, Azari-version of hezbullahi power abuse....and he is drunk with the power ~!,just like, Other hezbullahis, or ahmadunejad, or any Door man,in islamic republic that is hezbullahi......
The point,is that, they will initiate how different they are, for all to notice thier power !!
In the case of Our majid........I believe he is a nice man, from a good family...( be ghole maroof, Khanevadeh dar ).....but, I do not think he has same mind frame as daei, or hezbullahis are in relation to " power worshiping "! .........His case is of a different kind.
But,Ali Jaan,,,,,I like to ask you a question....
Does Majid, or martin, or Mansour.etc.........have extra value to you, because they are among the staffs ?......Would you have wanted to convince them ,as much as you do, if they were not among the staffs ?
Would you have given up on them, earlier, if they were not among the staff ?
Do members like me, have less value to you, because we are not among the Staff ?.............
Please, Think,and then, give me a honest answer !

[Doctor DOOM]

And one more thing as far as you are concerned Doc.

You have been constantly criticizing TM coaches as far as I remember, and predicting doomsday scenarios for Team Melli and then coming up with statements like " See ...I told you so , I was right , Branko failed "

first of all, my good friend, I did NOT come back and say "I told you so" when branko crumbled.
I kept my peace and it was others who came and said what was predicted, actually happened.

if you see me talk about it today, it is to draw parallels and remind ppl nobody's perfect just becoz they have a title. and that sometimes, there are trends that can be recognized and CAN be used to avoid further mistakes.


secondly, I am critical of not the PERSON, but the ISSUES I find troubling.
a clear proof of it is me talking about daei's issues having been a die hard daei fan always.
yes. I DO pick on the negatives and shortcomings more than just jump up & down and wave pom-poms and start "salavaat" threads coz I always want MORE from the team. and to get more, we have to overcome our weaknesses ... instead of wasting time on patting ourselves on the back ... half the time, unjustified.

and yes, I dont just look at the score-board and behave starry-eyed, start threads of praise based on the numbers on the board , but effectively sweep the dirt under the rug

I pick on issues becoz I beleive only with discussion we will reach solutions for them.

but most of all and before ANY of the above reasons, I cant stand double standards and unfairness. if anyone knows me , personally, will know this quirk of mine that gets me really aggravated which is unfairness and hypocrisy. that really gets my goat and fired up.

[Doctor DOOM]

and as for the comparison of understanding football and understanding how to fly an airplane, I really hope you were kidding.
lets not make things too complicated here. football IS EASY to read.



also as for the "obvious & clear" example, I think the numbers support the explanations. numbers such as :
number of turn overs
number of getting out-run
number of crosses
number of successful sprints
number of ...

when a player has TWICE as many negative points as positive ones, then it is CLEAR. coz numbers will support the claim.
when our right wing is deemed ineffectual the grand total of 1 cross in 90 minutes, zero cut-back passes, zero successful sprints down the line, zero spread of defense , zero .... support that claim and make it CLEAR.
and it's not only numbers, I believe the QUALITATIVE measurements also back it up.

but just saying "our left was great" and stopping there is just an opinion that has to be backed.


=====================

also, majid jan, if you can show me a post that says "if you use X, then we'd have won the game", then I'll show you a foolish, stupid post.
exactly WHERE have you read that stuff?
did I write it?
did anyone in F+ write it?
if not, then plz dont bring it up or try to twist things to convey some other purpose.


but you can certainly find ppl saying if X is a specialist in the post and is replaced by someone ( Y ) who isnt used to it ( and his performance proves it ), then it is natural for ppl to say X could have done better than Y.
if you need to fix your car and instead of calling a mechanic, you bring in your carpenter and naturally the car doesnt run well, then it is natural for ppl to say why did you not bring the mechanic ?
( or do range-rovers get sent to carpentry shops for service ? )


in fact I sure hope you have something to back up this:

When you use speculations such as IF PLAYER X played in this position, we would have could have easily won the game, OR IF player Y is in this position, we will lose that match.

who's this "you" ?
me?
or some generic "you"?
in F+ ?

[Martin-Reza]

I never could understand what they meant by "u gotta be a football expert to comment/critique" line, and I still cant.

That doesn't surprise me. There is no black and white, no "line of knowledge" which you have to pass to know it better than a coach but aren't allowed to have an opinion before that at all.

But you must know where you stand and you could never coach a team and most of your explanations about player selection and tactic would probably be a good laugh to most pro coaches.

I don't have the impression you are aware of that fact when you post critisicm.

[Ali Chicago]

I haven't seen a few posts from you to say Daie has done anything wrong. As simple as this. Martin is a hard core Daie fan, he listed the bench, Pajam is a another hard core Daie fan, he criticized Dai'es performance in Navad, so did ShirFarhad. HajjAgha posted that comment about not including Kia and I saw your response. All of these are what makes me to beleive that you have given a blank check of approval to Mr. Daie (which is nothing to be worry or ashame of).
.

Agha Majid;

This was the post I made the specifically explained why I claim you have given a blank check of approval to Mr. Daie. Do you care to comment? You seem to get really agitated when I say that, but then, when I try to come up with my reasoning on why I say that, then you tend to ignor it.

[Ali Chicago]

..
But,Ali Jaan,,,,,I like to ask you a question....
Does Majid, or martin, or Mansour.etc.........have extra value to you, because they are among the staffs ?......Would you have wanted to convince them ,as much as you do, if they were not among the staffs ?
Would you have given up on them, earlier, if they were not among the staff ?
Do members like me, have less value to you, because we are not among the Staff ?.............
Please, Think,and then, give me a honest answer !

I don't know if you know or not, I was banned by Mansoor (personally) twice, due to the Branko Issues.

I enjoy a good debate. During the WC 2006 go and see my long long posts (debating Yashar). I value human being and to be honest I can care less if Majid agha or Mansoor are in the staff or not (my actions not words show, I went as far as getting banned even twice, If I beleived in what I said).

I argue with Majid, because I see in him the sings of a logical man and I am baffled how come a logical man doesn't see these inconsistancies (IMO) in Mr. Daie's behavior. I dont' spend 1/millionth of this for someone like Ala, since I see his approach to things and it will be a waste of time. But I try to argue my points to Mansoor or Majid, because I beleive in their integrity and beleive there is value in them seeing thigns from a different angle. More importantly these people are in the press, tv, papers (maij has his own site about TM, Martin writes the front page of PFDC) and what they beleive which will be reflected in their writing, speaking on the TV, will be heard or read by many others and help to form the discussion framework.

I have a huge respect for you and many others in this forum. Each person brings something to this forum, Payman brings his critical thinking, purple haze brings his logical approach, Kaz brings his independent mind, Yashar (despite we having 180 degrees seperate views ) is a very khoshfekr man. List is so long (BehzadB, Armin (The_red), Martin, Pajam, ShirFarhad (despite being in a differnt camp) all are good poeople with good head on their shoulder. I value them all and respect them all. I am really confused by your post and dont' know what you meant by it.

In my whole life (since I remember) I was always cheering for the underdogs. That is probably I became a SS fan. Even in playing football in the neighborhood, I always picked the weaker players, because I thought wining with weaker player is really a challenge. Point is I was never an ass kisser or went to kiss the ground for the authorities. I don't know how you may have come up with that image. I wish if there was a confusion, you had PMed me, so I can address the issue, rather than you think I am ass kisser and boot licker.

[zzgloo]

I don't know if you know or not, I was banned by Mansoor (personally) twice, due to the Branko Issues.
I enjoy a good debate. During the WC 2006 go and see my long long posts (debating Yashar). I value human being and to be honest I can care less if Majid agha or Mansoor are in the staff or not (my actions not words show, I went as far as getting banned even twice, If I beleived in what I said).
I argue with Majid, because I see in him the sings of a logical man and I am baffled how come a logical man doesn't see these inconsistancies (IMO) in Mr. Daie's behavior. I dont' spend 1/millionth of this for someone like Ala, since I see his approach to things and it will be a waste of time. But I try to argue my points to Mansoor or Majid, because I beleive in their integrity and beleive there is value in them seeing thigns from a different angle. More importantly these people are in the press, tv, papers (maij has his own site about TM, Martin writes the front page of PFDC) and what they beleive which will be reflected in their writing, speaking on the TV, will be heard or read by many others and help to form the discussion framework.
I have a huge respect for you and many others in this forum. Each person brings something to this forum, Payman brings his critical thinking, purple haze brings his logical approach, Kaz brings his independent mind, Yashar (despite we having 180 degrees seperate views ) is a very khoshfekr man. List is so long (BehzadB, Armin (The_red), Martin, Pajam, ShirFarhad (despite being in a differnt camp) all are good poeople with good head on their shoulder. I value them all and respect them all. I am really confused by your post and dont' know what you meant by it.
In my whole life (since I remember) I was always cheering for the underdogs. That is probably I became a SS fan. Even in playing football in the neighborhood, I always picked the weaker players, because I thought wining with weaker player is really a challenge. Point is I was never an ass kisser or went to kiss the ground for the authorities. I don't know how you may have come up with that image. I wish if there was a confusion, you had PMed me, so I can address the issue, rather than you think I am ass kisser and boot licker.

Ali Jaan,.......
In general.....we are in a great enviroment here in PFDC.....
We are all.the elit of our culture....everybody here.....speaks two to three languages...and is ,or going to be, very educated....and have educated family as well...and on top of that, everybody here, is and has been associated with other cultures, and western civilization...etc,etc....many have worked within western companies, and worked with top manegment styles...amny are rich, and have companies of thier own.....etc.
so, we are among, top group of people.....
Even, if we find one single member here, who is unusaly misinformed, and has bad attitude...he, may also be educated and comeing from a top enviroment......
So, thanks to PFDC, we are all in good hands, and privilaged to be with a elit community !
I like you, also have been on the " Underdog" side....and that may have neen the reason behind, becomeing the TAJ fan in those early years...!!!
So, the educated, and logical members are many...thanks god !!, and thanks PFDC, we have a choice, and we can associate more with those who are more to our likeing.....................
In my personal screening......I feel better when I am among, humble ,and intelegent members, and those who are open to discuss any matter......and I try to stay away, from those who,although educated and logical,are closed, to some particualr issues...and some issues are , " Non-negociable " to them......or, those who present, some type of arrogance !!.or those who have files,and put people in differnet files, and marginalize and chatagorize others.....
These members just do not go with my Charactor well, even if I try !
.................................................. .................................
To answer, why I asked that particualar question.....
Human psycology, works in amazing ways.....!!!!, and in such closed , cyber,nationalistic,sport community...there may be some issues that influnce the relations among members !!....let me give you some possible example :which may, some times work as subliminal reasons on some stands , few members take within out small community.

1-There some members who feel insecure about thier membeships here...and feel they need to find friends, and find "closer community" within the bigger community,to feel secure !
2-there are some members here, who may " PM " each other, to some how,creat a bond out side the PFDC,so it would add to thier stabilities.
3-There are members here, who are after , approval of some Staff members, which that may help thier psycological low self esteam.
4-There are some staffs, that ,used to be an insecure members, and thier vulenteer work,is actualy the indirect act of security !
5-Even, there may be some , relations among the staffs themselves,that has to do with self steem, and security...
6-There are some members here,whom pay a huge price for feeling psycologicaly secure...as they never take a strong stand toward any issue, very seldum disagree with any one....,( My Brother says,there is something wrong with those who have no enemies !! )
7-Etc,etc.....
.............................
So, there are complications, and one way or another, we need to take stands, choose line, find friends, and , yes, have enemies !!

[maij]

Gentlemen.

I think it is getting way too complicated of an issue.

Let us enjoy the football rather than focusing on each others personalities and misdeeds.

[Martin-Reza]

I hope no old fights are brought back with this, but Daei's bench was interesting again:

Talebloo, Montazeri, Gholamnejad, M.Zare, Zandi, Khalatbari, Seyed Salehi.

Again no leftback option. I really wonder what's planned in case Zare gets injured. There must be a plan, but I don't get it. Who would be leftback? Zandi? Mahdavikia? Gholamnejad? Montazeri? Or switching to a threeback?

[yashar_fasihnia]

perhaps either gholamnejad or kaabi would be LB in that case..

[Martin-Reza]

^ Yes, puzzle solved. As we saw for the final 15 mins today, Gholamnejad is the LB backup.

Daei's bench today btw: Talebloo, Montazeri, Gholamnejad, K.Rahmati, M.Nouri, Madanchi and Salehi

[Masoud_A]

^ Yes, puzzle solved. As we saw for the final 15 mins today, Gholamnejad is the LB backup.

Daei's bench today btw: Talebloo, Montazeri, Gholamnejad, K.Rahmati, M.Nouri, Madanchi and Salehi

Martin jan, didnt GholamNejad replace Kia on the right? our left back was Zare then Madanchi.