The Daei conspiracy, getting to the facts [Part 1]

[Martin-Reza]

Ok, this urban myth about Daei refusing to select players because of personal feelings instead of his professional opinion is really becoming annoying to me. There is also stuff in it that really doesn't make sense at all to me.

I would like to dedicate this thread to facts proving the existance of personal feelings as major factor in Daei's player selection. Maybe both parties (those who believe in it and those who refuse to do so) can shed more light on their view. Better understanding can never hurt.

I'd ask you to come up with as much facts as possible, but keep the answers as short as possible so we don't get lost in millions of paragraphs.

In order to start I would like to get a list of players who alledgedly are out because of the personal feelings.

Please help me making the list of the "victims" and name the incidents putting them on the "blacklist", please back up with as many facts as possible, because only this will ensure the player will be accepted as blacklist member.

Thanks

[Doctor DOOM]

"victims" ?
OK. lets call them that

I'd say while we are compiling this set of victimized players, we might as well list out the "excuses" for these acts also.

on the top of my mind I can come up with :
1- "where does he play?" ( pointing at a persian gulf league )
2- "he isnt fixed in his club"
3- "doesnt fit into our tactic"
4- "I'd rather invest on youth"

and some more which I'll add later on as I remember.

[maij]

Good post Martin.

From my understanding of Daei's player selection , I can see what he is trying to achieve. I can't see that personal vendetta some people are claiming , but it is interesting to see what they have.

Spell it out , guys.

[Doctor DOOM]

ok. I'll come up with a few , at the moment and will add later on.

case 1- Kia is not called on the pretext of "he's not a starter at his club".
ok. fine. that's a sensible criteria for a coach.
oh. but wait.
does ando start at fulham ?
does ahmadi start at sepahan ?
does shojaei start at ossasuna ?
was HE, himself, when he was at europe ?

so what gives ?
why the double standards ?
hence, his argument is thrown out the window.

players ( victims, if you like ) - Mahdavikia

===============


case 2- many of persian gulf league players are overlooked on the pretext of those leagues they play.
ok. fine. an argument by itself for any coach.
oh. but wait.
didnt he call up shojaei when he was still at sharjah?
didnt he call up enayati ?
and here's the kicker : didnt he, himself, play there ?

so what gives?
why the double standards ?

unfortunately, this line of argument is also thrown out the window.


players ( victims, if you like ) - kazemian, mobaali, madanchi ( until our previous game ),

==============

case 3- if YOUTH is the important thing and we're trying to replace the older generation with youth .... then why is sadeghi , at the age of 30+, being given such leeway and extended run , when we have younger prospects like maziyar zareh who is a far better investment for many years to come ?
and wasnt he, himself, saying age doesnt matter when HE was the target of such remarks ?


mind you, I've kept sadeghi's repeated sub-standard displays out of the argument, coz that would REALLY make the case stink !

players ( victims, if you like ) - Maziyar zareh, kazemian, amraei, ...

===================

case 4- if the premise of "doing something note-worthy" in your football is to be followed, then why overlook players with proven record and awards while persisting with extremely average players with absolutely NOTHING to boast about ?

players ( victims, if you like ) - mobaali, kazemian, Madanchi ( until this last game ), ...

===============

case 5- lets say not club, but TM is important and we shd always keep TM's benefit in mind.
then why are there players in TM who CONSISTENTLY (not just an occasional one ) play poor and come the next game, voila ! there they are !!!! as if no matter how pathetic they play, they are guaranteed of their place at TM !!!

all the while we have some others who are called in those "eye-wash" 35-name or 40-name call-ups and are struck off without a single second's game time ! some of them in positions that we have problems in.

players ( victims, if you like ) - plenty of names here.



btw, I wont even go into that absurd "doesnt fit into our tactics" business when the alternative is ... well, there IS NO alternative and the players used in the post are make-shift patch-jobs that dont do quarter the duties of those posts !



more examples later.

=========================
=========================

the issue is we shd acknowledge this about daei. he has indeed kept many things in himself from whenever and whatever.
from the WC days to those last days when he was a player. he has TALKED about and pointed towards many of such occasions, without naming names though. so we know they all have remained with him. especially when you consider what he went through in his last playing year ( here, I have the utmost respect for him as the PLAYER and absolutely feel for him )

now for such a person with such "baggage", is it not possible to see him act on these now? really ?
is he a saint ?
NO.

[perspolees]

I am sorry but whats up with all of this mumbo jumbo!!
coaches are peope, they take sides and act upon their likes and dislikes
are we trying to say daei is not one!!?

The whole point is simply mute
daei lovers try not to make a fair never takes sides, never has double standards genius out of him cause he clearly is not one

daei haters, try not to come up with poin and counter point to prove him wrong and your theory right!!
As a coach he has every right to be biased, by what his brains tell him
he is not the first coach that cant play some of the players because he cant simply get along with them or with the thought of them!! has happened for all coaches and players of teh world..

So I ask again, whats teh point!!?
are we saying daei is a fair angel with no personal agenda!!?
are we saying daei has no right to not like and not get along with certain players for whatever reason that it is!? after all van basten and nistelroy
and millions of other examples exist ..

[Martin-Reza]

Please DD, don't try to take the second step before the first. And please don't get lost in long postings here.

We will come to each single case, reasons, excuses etc. later, as well as having a general discussion about personal feelings and coaching.

I think we all meanwhile know that we won't be able to change someone's opinion, nor are we competing for votes in some election and have to "win" a discussion in order to convince voters.

This should just bring structure into this issue.

So please let's start by identifying the cases. Not general classes getting lost in stereotypes, I want names. All players who are left out because of non-sporting reasons. Exact names, and very short explanation about the issues between them and Daei.

I saw Mahdavikia was mentioned, now we would also need to reason why there would be negative personal feelings between Daei and Mahdavikia. Does anyone know any specific incident and can maybe back it up with good sources?

Then let me add Mobali, who is probably the most controversial player.

And of course Karimi now.

Can anyone sum up the problems between Daei and the two, in best case backed up by sources?

Any other players? Kazemian? Anyone else? I don't know if including Madanchi, who played in the last 2 games makes sense...

[Ali Chicago]

Martin,

I am really confused by this thread. None of us in privy to fact (private information, we were not in friedsrishhafen in WC2006, so we don't know facts. I think Daie is like any other human likes to dislikes someone and it is his right.
It is as simple as this, if our team is successful in wc qualification in a rather convincing way and even better go to the WC2010 and perform better than wc2006, then all the power to him and nobody will remember Kia, Karimi, Mobali, Kazemian. If team doesn't make it to the wc (which considering 4.5 almost 5 considering Asia winner will play New Zeland, then that is an abject failuer of Mr. Daie. If we get to the WC and have a performance like Wc2006, I would call it a mixed result.
There are list of players not inculded and whole bunch of players who are included that are suspect.

Not included are Kia, Karimi, Kazemian, Mobali, Rajabzadeh

Included players : Gholamnezhad, Ebi Sadeghi, Zare, Zandi, K Rahmati, Rahman Ahmadi even Mohammad Parvin. Many of these players are present or Ex Saipa players.

But we are going to get nowhere with this. Short of someone has insider info all we are going to do will be speculation and guess work.

[Martin-Reza]

Well, some are so convinced about the "fact" of Daei being strongly influenced by personal feelings and regulary communicate this.

Now I want to know which players exactly are concerned, what exactly the non-sporting problems are, what differs their case from other uninvited players and why generally a coach would do sth like this.

I wanted the facts, but sadly not even the names of the concerned players were provided. Seemingly there is even less behind those claims than I had thought. Let's see if there will be more provided than the usual talk without facts and structure.

[Doctor DOOM]

allow me to add 2 more names to the victims list here, which I forgot.

sadeghi
zareh
( ironically, but true )

these 2 are daei's victims also, just as daei was the victim of that croatian bum, who kept on starting with him no matter how out of form he was , which made all Iranians increasingly sensitive to seeing daei start games and play 90 minutes without getting subbed while often having no impact on the game and on some occasions effectively having a negative impact on the team ! so much that poor daei ( the player ) became a victim of ridicule by fans everywhere in Iran, from north to south to west to east.

It was not his fault that the coach was stupid enough to use him this way.
It was not his fault as daei ( the player ) just wanted to serve the TM and the decision maker was wrong in his methods of using daei.
just as daei is wrong for using out of form players and fixing them in the team, so much that fans become sensitive to seeing their names.

a coach has to have much more tact and experience to know when and how to use from the pool that is available to him.
branko was an inexperienced coach ( especially when it came to major international games like WC ), just as daei has a lot to learn as well.

[Ali Chicago]

Well, some are so convinced about the "fact" of Daei being strongly influenced by personal feelings and regulary communicate this.

Now I want to know which players exactly are concerned, what exactly the non-sporting problems are, what differs their case from other uninvited players and why generally a coach would do sth like this.

I wanted the facts, but sadly not even the names of the concerned players were provided. Seemingly there is even less behind those claims than I had thought. Let's see if there will be more provided than the usual talk without facts and structure.

There was a list in my post. But let's turn the table around, can you provide facts why Ebi Sadeghi or Zareh are selected? Of course not, because you aren't in the TM staff. That is unrealistic to ask for something like that from you. So you asking people to provide facts why Kia wasn't invited is the same.

There is a saying in English, if it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck it must be a duck. There are circumstantial evidences, but I ever doubt we will find a piece of paper that Mr. Daie has siged in which, I am not going to ivnite Kia because I hate him personally and due to WC2006 events I want to revenge.

[purple_haze]

I am sorry but whats up with all of this mumbo jumbo!!
coaches are peope, they take sides and act upon their likes and dislikes
are we trying to say daei is not one!!?

The whole point is simply mute
daei lovers try not to make a fair never takes sides, never has double standards genius out of him cause he clearly is not one

daei haters, try not to come up with poin and counter point to prove him wrong and your theory right!!
As a coach he has every right to be biased, by what his brains tell him
he is not the first coach that cant play some of the players because he cant simply get along with them or with the thought of them!! has happened for all coaches and players of teh world..

So I ask again, whats teh point!!?
are we saying daei is a fair angel with no personal agenda!!?
are we saying daei has no right to not like and not get along with certain players for whatever reason that it is!? after all van basten and nistelroy
and millions of other examples exist ..

Absolutely true. I too fail to see the meaning of this thread other than getting a personal message across.

[The-Red]

can some one only explain to me how a 39 year old guy with NO international experience as a coach who is not even a candidate, becomes TM coach in a matter of 12 hours??? ...everything pretty much started from there...when the circumstances of your selection are as such, one much expect that his every move will be under the telescope and viewed in negative way, meaning he is not usually given the benefit of the doubt, and that applies to anyone else in similar situation, and not just Daie.

[kaz]

I saw Mahdavikia was mentioned, now we would also need to reason why there would be negative personal feelings between Daei and Mahdavikia. Does anyone know any specific incident and can maybe back it up with good sources?

Two online journalists, that I know of, and believe, are Niloufar Momeni and Nader Jahanfard. Both reported the ill-feelings between thee gentlemen.

Then let me add Mobali, who is probably the most controversial player.

Branko himself, when interviewed by Nader Jahanfard, pretty much spilled the beans on this one. Saying that tackle pretty much put him out of contention. Why it would, can only be explained by Daei being upset. How a poor tackle can be used as a means to not invite someone is beyond me.

And of course Karimi now.

Karimi and Kia, and others too, were apart of that group that stood upto Daei.

Daei himself said that a certain player (no doubt meaning Karimi) looked into his eyes and said he would not pass to Daei.

The facts are, Daei himself is the biggest liar during the event. During it, he also said he had a back ache, and then went on to deny there ever was such a problem - on TV.

A great post by DD, yet again. Unfortunately, we have too many people who have too much emotions invested in Daei to ever see the truth. These people are blinded by their own bias'.

Lest we forget, the majority of them defended Branko UNBELIEVABLY and staunchly throughout his failed tenure, and also had the audacity to come here and make excuses for him after the fact. Now, why do the two connect? Well, if you remember during Branko's time, these such people spent a LOT of time trying to reason out and justify Daei's inclusion into the WC. It's natural that they'd still have invested feelings toward the man and NOW EVEN DENY that things happened.

I've talked personally to the reporters that WERE there and they ALL confirm these ongoings. But here, we are again trying revise history for the sake of our bias.

[kaz]

can some one only explain to me how a 39 year old guy with NO international experience as a coach who is not even a candidate, becomes TM coach in a matter of 12 hours??? ...everything pretty much started from there...when the circumstances of your selection are as such, one much expect that his every move will be under the telescope and viewed in negative way, meaning he is not usually given the benefit of the doubt, and that applies to anyone else in similar situation, and not just Daie.

And then when your apparel company becomes the new sponsor for the team and you fill the squad with half of your own players or former players...especially ones that are no where near TM level...and you will have even more questions.

When you also omit two of Iran's all-time greats - players that can even overshadow Daei's own legacy - out of the blue and without chance to prove themself. You are going to get people asking questions.

When your excuses for x and y event are poorly constructed and when you get into fights because you cannot explain yourself...people are going to ask questions.

But remember, some of the people here actually believe things like "Daei didn't retire because the coach kept inviting him". Please...don't entertain this non-sense.

[kaz]

There is a saying in English, if it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck it must be a duck. There are circumstantial evidences, but I ever doubt we will find a piece of paper that Mr. Daie has siged in which, I am not going to ivnite Kia because I hate him personally and due to WC2006 events I want to revenge.

BINGO. Circumstantial, corroborating...and hard cold testimonies. EVEN in a court of law - where standards of proof are more stringent - such things would be accepted. YES "it is possible Daei, even though he had a fued with certain players that he is not inviting them for tactical reasons". YES, but what is reasonable? Let's look at things after the fact. What are his reasons for not inviting them, etc, DD has shown what a shambles that has been. It shows he is guiltier than thought previously.

But then we have certain people saying there is NO proof and there is NO reason to assume as such. This is just becoming a bad joke.

[Believes in Santa Claus]You mean, it's all a coincidence that Daei and x, y had a fued and now they are not invited...even though they are our best players? [/Believes in Santa Claus]