The Daei conspiracy, getting to the facts [Part 2] - Poll

[Martin-Reza]

The first try getting the players named was a big disappointment, it was not possible to compile a list of Daei's victims.

So let's try with a poll.

Please select the players negatively affected by Daei's alledged personal feelings. If you select "others", please name the concerned players not in the list inside the thread.

If you don't think there are non-sporting reasons for the exclusion of any players, please don't chose any player name but the matching option.

Thanks

[kaz]

Me thinks this would have been better as a public poll.

[Martin-Reza]

Why? I thought maybe some don't want to be "categorized" into Daei lover or hater, but still have an opinion.

They can still later decide if they want to actively participate in the discussion on the certain players identified as "victims" here, or not.

[Doctor DOOM]

the most interesting player/issue is KAZEMIAN.
somehow I doubt daei has a personal issue with him.

But I still think kazemian playing in a persian league has unfortunately made him a target of bias. ( not a "personal issues" kind of bias, but another form of unjustified bias )

an indigestible matter if we pause and remember daei, himself, played in the same league ( and same team , but that team almost got relegated. yes they were that weak. while kazemian's won the league ) and has called players like shojaei while he was at sharjah.

what's more intriguing is that kazemian is an excellent right winger and daei's team is devoid of one, and yet, we see laj baazi on the issue of right wing players ( kia included ) !!!


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rezaei? I'm not sure. so I'll stay away from his name.
karimi, kia, mobaali ? definitely

[gol_kuchik]

Martin Reza Jan,

I wish you had made the poll public. Most folks use screen names, but we
all sort of know each other and it is good to know how others feel.


The way this poll is worded I have to say Mahdavi Kia. I really see no good
reason for him not being at least on the roster. Our right flank has been
traditionally our strong side, but against Saudi's that was not the case.

I don't think Karimi was left out due to personal reasons, he is simply not fit. Kia on the other hand can be effective in his current condition at least for 45 minutes. He has the best crosses in TM and most assissts (unfortunately this important stats is not kept anywhere). Unlike Karimi, I think Kia is professional enough that even if he were on the bench he would not kick a bag.

As Doctor Doom said, I don't think the case of Kazemian is really a personal issue.
But to be honest here's my take on Daei's not wanting players from Persian
Gulf states: (at least some)

I think in that infamous game against Bahrain, Daei felt we dropped the
game. By we I mean some players. Please look back for instance for
the lousy game by Karimi, Bagheri and the strange mistakes by the goal
keepr. I think Daei came out of that thinking/believing some players are
not giving their 100% and perhaps the most simple conclusion was that
they were not giving their 100% for some reason (like they did not
want to give 100%). (To me the team of
2002 should have been titled: schizopherinic TM). If you look back at those
videos, no team with pretty much same players had soooooo much swing
from one game to another. Best example was our 2-0 defeat (most
like crush) of Saudi at home and 0-0 tie with Thailand. Our players could simply not even
walk!?

Mobali is simply no where near Shojai though, I hope people can wake up
and smell the coffee. Jabbari is also better (both as play makers).

And Rezai, has too much attitude for a defender who has made so many crucial mistakes,
let someone young take his place. He is not even in 3rd league of Italy, let the man
retire like he said he wants to from TM.

[Doctor DOOM]

He has the best crosses in TM and most assissts (unfortunately this important stats is not kept anywhere).







But to be honest here's my take on Daei's not wanting players from Persian
Gulf states: (at least some)

I think in that infamous game against Bahrain, Daei felt we dropped the
game. By we I mean some players. Please look back for instance for
the lousy game by Karimi, Bagheri and the strange mistakes by the goal
keepr. I think Daei came out of that thinking/believing some players are
not giving their 100% and perhaps the most simple conclusion was that
they were not giving their 100% for some reason (like they did not
want to give 100%). (To me the team of
2002 should have been titled: schizopherinic TM). If you look back at those
videos, no team with pretty much same players had soooooo much swing
from one game to another. Best example was our 2-0 defeat (most
like crush) of Saudi at home and 0-0 tie with Thailand. Our players could simply not even
walk!?

1- I absolutely agree , we usually forget the impact of Kia on assists at TM.
that, by itself shd be reason enough to see him in the 18 man roster.

2- I dont see how the bahrain memory, as painful as it is , is related to daei leaving out some of gulf league players. coz at that moment, neither bagheri, nor mirza or karimi ( I am not sure, but I guess he was still at PP ) were playing in uae .

if it is "kam kaari", then we shd look at some of the present batch also and see them excluded from the team.

[kaz]

Why? I thought maybe some don't want to be "categorized" into Daei lover or hater, but still have an opinion.

They can still later decide if they want to actively participate in the discussion on the certain players identified as "victims" here, or not.

Because with a mask we are capable of a lot of things. Without that mask we may actually have to face inquisition.

[Martin-Reza]

That's exactly why some might hesitate to participate.

As said, after we identified the possible cases, we will discuss each single one in detail. Then everyone who wants his voice heard has to come forward anyway.

[kaz]

That's exactly why some might hesitate to participate.

If people are going to vote with their bias, knowing they do not have to be questioned for it, then it is better they not vote at all.

[Martin-Reza]

Well, the percentage of conspiracy fans and opposers is not the point here. The question is which players are identified as main Daei-victims, regardless of the numbers of opposers.

So far Karimi and Kia seem to be seen as victims of personal issues, Mobali a bit, Rezaei and Kazemian not really.

[Doctor DOOM]

Why? I thought maybe some don't want to be "categorized" into Daei lover or hater, but still have an opinion.

it is ridiculous to label ppl "X-lover or X-hater", especially in this present issue.

what? just becoz I am critical of daei's selection and indulging his personal issues I become a "daie-hater"?
LOL.
really ?
what kind og logic is that?

what is "daei lover" then?
someone who says absolutely nothing critical of his words/deeds ?
sorry, in MY dictionary there's another word for this kind of person: "zealot" ( and I'm picking my "well-mannered dictionary" . in my "other" dictionary , the word starts with an "S" and ends with a "P" )


but seriously, lets not label and categorize ppl based on ISSUES.
I really supported daei ( even in his final couple of playing years ) and argued against the same members here ( zz, kaz, the-red, ..... ) in his favor.
BUT when I see something wrong, I WILL bring it up.
and I'm sure a lot of members here are like that too. nobody is a "hater" or ... .
so lets do away with such pissy labels.

[kaz]

Well, the percentage of conspiracy fans and opposers is not the point here. The question is which players are identified as main Daei-victims, regardless of the numbers of opposers.

So far Karimi and Kia seem to be seen as victims of personal issues, Mobali a bit, Rezaei and Kazemian not really.

My point was in transparency you lose nothing and as such it would have enhanced the poll.

it is ridiculous to label ppl "X-lover or X-hater", especially in this present issue.
what? just becoz I am critical of daei's selection and indulging his personal issues I become a "daie-hater"?
LOL.
really ?
what kind og logic is that?
what is "daei lover" then?
someone who says absolutely nothing critical of his words/deeds ?
sorry, in MY dictionary there's another word for this kind of person: "zealot" ( and I'm picking my "well-mannered dictionary" . in my "other" dictionary , the word starts with an "S" and ends with a "P" )
but seriously, lets not label and categorize ppl based on ISSUES.
I really supported daei ( even in his final couple of playing years ) and argued against the same members here ( zz, kaz, the-red, ..... ) in his favor.
BUT when I see something wrong, I WILL bring it up.
and I'm sure a lot of members here are like that too. nobody is a "hater" or ... .
so lets do away with such pissy labels.

Great post. For all my criticisms of Daei I do not want him fired because of my differences with his actions and instead I like him going forward. So I am a walking contradiction.

[Doctor DOOM]

No contradiction, kazem.
in real life we all may like someone in the capacity of an athlete or coach or ....
But that doesnt mean they are perfect. so it is only natural to find something that clashes with our beliefs. so when we speak out, it shd not be construed as being "anti" or "hater" or assassin or .... !

I'm sure a lot of us who are critical of somethings at TM do still want daei to remain with the team. but that doesnt mean we shd close our eyes to everything else just becoz we like the fellow.

so that's no contradiction. it's only reality.

[Martin-Reza]

Ok, it seems it really comes down to those three players. Interesting that only the most popular players are concerned. Unpopular players are seemingly not the victims of any hard feelings.

We will start discussing the first of the three tomorrow. I will formulate some questions about the case which we should discuss. As we will surely not come to a collective conclusion anyway, we should focus on discussing all interesting aspects of the three cases.

[kaz]

Ok, it seems it really comes down to those three players. Interesting that only the most popular players are concerned. Unpopular players are seemingly not the victims of any hard feelings.

I don't think there is any correlation there MR jan. It seems more to do with the fact that the 3 players actually have a side-story about not getting invited. For all my confusion about Kazemian not getting invited, I am not sure it is anything personal, or conspiratorial.