MIDFIELDERS in Iran

[Doctor DOOM]

discussion w yashar jan prompted me to write this piece and I thought perhaps we can put it to test here in F+.

I've dissected the duties of a midfield player ( to my limited knowledge , of course ) , through which we can painstakingly evaluate and score the best mids we have on offer in Iran to TM.
it will take some time. but if enough ppl take part, I will do the rest of summing things up in the end.

1- passing - this is the absolute topper in any list of a midfielder
2- pace
3- vision
4- defending
5- shooting
6- crossing

then we have the extra stuff like that come as a bonus:
7- heading
8- free kicks
9- dribbling
10- versatility – as in the ability to play multiple positions like X who can play central as well as on flank , capable of delivering the specific duties of each post. or defensive as well as offensive. or .... etc.
11- Discipline ( BOTH TACTICAL as well as BEHAVIORAL discipline of the players )
12- Consistency ( points at maintaining one's form for long periods or even consecutive seasons. unless Majid jan means something different)
13- Fitness and Physical status


you all can feel free to add to the categories of required skills for a midfield player.
I'll wait a day or so for any other categories proposed by anyone. then we may start with the scoring.

---------------

then we can pick a set of midfield players and assign a number or value for each player in each of the categories.

treat this as something like Decathlon scoring.
some players may score high in a few categories, while losing in some others. and some may get opposite scores.
in the end we can add up the overall scores and see the top mids in Iran.

=====================

ED:
and perhaps later, with the help of everyone we can divide the players according to their capabilities to see who would be at his best at which position.
for example dividing them primarily by their defensive abilities, or attacking abilities or flank capabilities, .... etc.

[Doctor DOOM]

The PLAYERS :

I'm just going to pick a few prominent ones who've been used at TM in recent times and make a list.
I'll wait for a day or so in case anyone wants to add to the list.
but I guess a list of 14-15 players shd be enough.

1- Shojaei
2- Rajabzadeh
3- Sadeghi
4- Rahmati
5- Mahdavikia
6- Kazemian
7- Zandi
8- Madanchi
9- Hajsafi
10- Mobaali
11- Jabbari
12- Karimi
13- Md Nouri


note 1:
I've left out Nekunam and Ando not becoz they are untouchable, but merely becoz as is evident, most of our discussions are about flank mids, offensive mids and playmakers , rather than who is the best defensive mids. ( although I'd love to add Montazeri to the list of def mids choices . perhaps in another thread )
makes the survey easier also.

note 2:
I've excluded one of my favorites, Navidkia, coz the lad is simply out of commission and hasnt been fit in a looooong time and his fitness is highly suspect. otherwise he'd be a great pick too.


note 3:
I hope club affiliations and colors dont play any part in this scoring.
neither the emotions of zeal to "make a point" about X or Y .
lets just focus on the polayer alone, with no regard to what color or club or ....


======================


and plz dont try to edit or adjust the scores you give after you finish,... doctoring it depending on how you want X or Y to finish.
be truthful and write the FIRST value that comes to your mind.

thank you

[zzgloo]

I divide the Midfielders based on my self made catagories !!;

.................................................. ..................................................

1-Type A= Those who " Dribble a little and then pass":
( Mobali,karimi,Shojaee)

2-Type B= Those who " keep the ball the least,and pass or take a shot " :
( Jabari,Sadeghi,Rahmati,ando )

3-Type C= Those who " keep the ball the most, and advance the ball ,and specialize in distribution " :
( Nekunam,Mahdavikia,Zandi, Navidkia)

4-Type D= Those who " keep the ball by advancing fast and then crossing ":
( Hajsafi,Kazemian,rajabzadeh,Madanchi )

[BehzadB]

khaheshan az Kia esmee nabareen bekhatereh eenkeh eeshoon be taktik ma nemikhoreh..

[Doctor DOOM]

^ heehee.
hala donya ro che didi? ommadim o ye rooz taghi be tooghi khord o kia ham be taktik-e ma khord.

hala fe'lan esm-ha ro bedin.
baadesh emtiyaz-ha ro vaght darin.

==============

and bahram jan, ando can DISTRIBUTE the ball and karimi, mobaali & jabbari cant?

ey val, amoo.

[Doctor DOOM]

OK, before this thread goes haywire & get derailed, I think I'll just start with the scoring.
however, if anyone likes to add other names or categories, we can always edit our posts and add these names/categories to our posts too.

I'll give it a week or two and then sum up all the scores.

=================================

SHOJAEI

1- passing – 8
2- pace - 7
3- vision – 8
4- defending – 5
5- shooting – 6
6- crossing – 6
7- heading – 5
8- free kicks – 6
9- dribbling – 8
10- versatility – 7
11- Discipline - 7
12- Consistency - 6
13- Fitness and Physical status - 7

-------------------------------------

RAJABZADEH

1- passing – 7
2- pace - 6
3- vision – 7
4- defending – 5
5- shooting – 7
6- crossing – 7
7- heading – 4
8- free kicks – 7
9- dribbling – 6
10- versatility – 7
11- Discipline - 6
12- Consistency - 6
13- Fitness and Physical status - 7

-------------------------------

SADEGHI

1- passing – 6
2- pace - 7
3- vision – 6
4- defending – 8
5- shooting – 6
6- crossing – 5
7- heading – 4
8- free kicks – 5
9- dribbling – 4
10- versatility – 5
11- Discipline - 8
12- Consistency - 5
13- Fitness and Physical status - 6

-------------------------------

K. RAHMATI

1- passing – 7
2- pace - 6
3- vision – 7
4- defending – 8
5- shooting – 8
6- crossing – 6
7- heading – 5
8- free kicks – 6
9- dribbling – 6
10- versatility - 5
11- Discipline - 8
12- Consistency - 8
13- Fitness and Physical status - 7

-----------------------------------------

MAHDAVIKIA

1- passing – 8
2- pace - 8
3- vision – 8
4- defending – 8
5- shooting – 7
6- crossing – 9
7- heading – 4
8- free kicks – 8
9- dribbling – 6
10- versatility – 8
11- Discipline - 7
12- Consistency - 8
13- Fitness and Physical status - 6

----------------------------------

KAZEMIAN

1- passing – 7
2- pace - 9
3- vision – 7
4- defending – 4
5- shooting – 7
6- crossing – 8
7- heading – 4
8- free kicks – 8
9- dribbling – 7
10- versatility – 7
11- Discipline - 6
12- Consistency - 6
13- Fitness and Physical status - 6

--------------------------------

ZANDI

1- passing – 8
2- pace - 5
3- vision – 9
4- defending – 4
5- shooting – 7
6- crossing – 8
7- heading – 6
8- free kicks – 9
9- dribbling – 7
10- versatility – 8
11- Discipline - 8
12- Consistency - 6
13- Fitness and Physical status - 5

----------------------------

MADANCHI

1- passing – 7
2- pace - 9
3- vision – 7
4- defending – 5
5- shooting – 8
6- crossing – 8
7- heading – 5
8- free kicks – 6
9- dribbling – 6
10- versatility – 6
11- Discipline - 6
12- Consistency - 7
13- Fitness and Physical status - 6

----------------------------

HAJSAFI

1- passing – 7
2- pace - 9
3- vision – 7
4- defending – 5
5- shooting – 7
6- crossing – 8
7- heading – 5
8- free kicks – 6
9- dribbling – 7
10- versatility – 5
11- Discipline - not seen enough to score
12- Consistency - 8
13- Fitness and Physical status - 6

-------------------


MOBAALI

1- passing – 8
2- pace - 7
3- vision – 8
4- defending – 5
5- shooting – 9
6- crossing – 7
7- heading – 4
8- free kicks – 9
9- dribbling – 6
10- versatility – 7
11- Discipline - 6
12- Consistency - 8
13- Fitness and Physical status - 6

--------------------------------

JABBARI

1- passing – 9
2- pace - 7
3- vision – 9
4- defending – 5
5- shooting – 7
6- crossing – 7
7- heading – 5
8- free kicks – 7
9- dribbling – 7
10- versatility – 6
11- Discipline - 7
12- Consistency - 8
13- Fitness and Physical status - 6

-------------------------------

KARIMI

1- passing – 9
2- pace - 6
3- vision – 9
4- defending – 7
5- shooting – 7
6- crossing – 7
7- heading – 7
8- free kicks – 7
9- dribbling – 9
10- versatility – 8
11- Discipline - 7
12- Consistency - 7
13- Fitness and Physical status - 6

-----------------------------

Md. NOURI

1- passing – 8
2- pace - 6
3- vision – 7
4- defending – 5
5- shooting – 6
6- crossing – 6
7- heading – 6
8- free kicks – 6
9- dribbling – 6
10- versatility – 6
11- Discipline - 7
12- Consistency - 7
13- Fitness and Physical status - 6

[maij]

It is an interesting thread, and I was all excited to get my list ready, when I got stuck with some players rating and my mind went into a spiral thinking about the awards of points.

The biggest obstacle in my mind was the magic word DELIVERY versus ABILITYCONSISTENCY. The ability of the player to perform and use his skills regularly, occasionally or rarely.

In my own ideal world , I put a lot of emphasis on DISCIPLINE. No player , regardless to his fame and fortune is worthy if he lacks discipline and as such the world of football is full of stories of players who shot themselves in the foot due to lack of discipline and never reached their true potential.

Your comments are appreciated.

[zzgloo]

and bahram jan, ando can DISTRIBUTE the ball and karimi, mobaali & jabbari cant?

ey val, amoo.

I actualy believe,I seperated them correctly,except may be Ando which you correctly mentioned....better would be to put ando among " Those who keep the ball the least,Type B................all others catagorized correctly.In my opinion....,

[Doctor DOOM]

I agree with majid on the importance of CONSISTENCY & DISCIPLINE.
I'm going to add these two to the list.

from what I understand consistency points at maintaining one's form for long periods or even consecutive seasons. unless Majid jan means something different.

and by Discipline we are looking for a player staying within the given structure or limits set by his role or coach's orders ..... or general attitude & behavior of the player?
which one majid jan?
one is tactical and the other is behavioral.
or shd we evaluate it as a combination of both ( tactical + behavioral ) aspects ?


===============

as for the dribbling example, well, majid jan, I guess we shd look to see if the dribble did its work.
what's the use of a player dribbling 3 ppl but losing the ball to the fourth?
while a player may dribble one player and then either pass or shoot or ... . the former gets 0 , while the latter player gets +.

that's why I personally gave the new karimi better scores for dribbling than shojaei's. karimi's dribbles these days go a lot more to help the team.

thanks for the input, bro.

[yashar_fasihnia]

its not so simple and limited.
u should add more attributes like:

physique and physical strength
aerial ability
mental strength and concentration
endurance and stamina
leadership and experience
team work (different than just passing)
consistency
intelligence and game reading
professionalism and discipline
tactical adaptability (not sure its the correct word, in farsi, its called "taktik paziri")
versatility
confidence and attitude
tackling
fitness and form
communication with team mates and coachs on and off the field

and probably more which i cant think of right now...

[Doctor DOOM]

its not so simple and limited.
u should add more attributes like:

physique and physical strength
aerial ability
mental strength and concentration
endurance and stamina
leadership and experience
team work (different than just passing)
consistency
intelligence and game reading
professionalism and discipline
tactical adaptability (not sure its the correct word, in farsi, its called "taktik paziri")
versatility
confidence and attitude
tackling
fitness and form
communication with team mates and coachs on and off the field

and probably more which i cant think of right now...

yes, we can even add a whole bunch of other attributes to the list.
but lets not get so detailed and stay more macro than micro.

and btw, a lot of the above divisions are more or less the same.
like :
fitness and form
&
endurance and stamina
&
physique and physical strength


or

confidence and attitude
&
mental strength and concentration
&
....

or
communication with team mates and coachs on and off the field
&
leadership and experience


and I think aerial ability is within the simple "heading" heading
tackling is within the "defensive" category
and consistency, discipline, versatility, ... are already added to the original list.


so if you can come up with one or two new categories ( that may be a combination of some of those you mentioned ) I'll add them to the list.
but lets not get too Micro

[yashar_fasihnia]

yes, we can even add a whole bunch of other attributes to the list.
but lets not get so detailed and stay more macro than micro.

and btw, a lot of the above divisions are more or less the same.
like :
fitness and form
&
endurance and stamina
&
physique and physical strength


or

confidence and attitude
&
mental strength and concentration
&
....

or
communication with team mates and coachs on and off the field
&
leadership and experience


and I think aerial ability is within the simple "heading" heading
tackling is within the "defensive" category
and consistency, discipline, versatility, ... are already added to the original list.


so if you can come up with one or two new categories ( that may be a combination of some of those you mentioned ) I'll add them to the list.
but lets not get too Micro

no, they are not the same. fitness and stamina is different.
fintess is when a player is match fit to play but his stamina is less, compared to some other player who has more stamina.
for example, both gatuso and pirlo can be match fit, but gatuso has much more stamina than pirlo.
these 2 are totally different from physique. u can have a player like koller who has a strong physique but not a lot of stamina.
u can have a player like kaabi who runs a lot but has weak physique.


tackling and defense is not the same.
defense is a broad concept.
tackling is just an element of defense.
defense itself can broadly be divided into team defense and solo defense.
each player has a role in team defense and solo defense. the ability to tackle well, to read the game and the opponents movements both with the ball and without the ball are all part of defense as well.

confidence and attitude is also different from mental strenght and concentration.
jabbari is not the most confident of players, however he has great concentrationg.
players like khatibi and majidi are very confident but lack concentration and mental strength.


and also, communication on and off the field is different from leadership and experience as well.
not every player possess leadership qualities even though he may communicate very well with his team mates on and off the pitch.
there are very young players who are relatively inexperienced but know very well how to communicate with their team mates on the pitch.


all these factors arent as micro as u think they are and cant be considered more or less the same. psychological and physical fitness is very important, not just ability to pass, shoot, dribble or head. and its some of these attributes that certain players may possess but because they are not as obvious and as eyecatching as shooting, heading or dribbling, they go relatively unnoticed and unappreciated by some.

motmaen bash doctor jan, if a player doesnt know how to shoot or pass, he wont become a professional footballer.

[Doctor DOOM]

many are micro matters .
then we have to add which flank player has the correct foot ( right mid being right footed )
or does he stop the ball with his correct side foot or the other one.
or which player has longer reach for legs.
or which player has better peripheral vision
or which player shoots better with his wrong ( or less favored ) foot
or which ones can shoot while on the run
or which player is more humble
or which player lets fame get to his head
or ........ etc. etc. etc.

you didnt get my point.
surely you dont think I believe tackling is equal to defending.
but by saying "defending abilities", I've made a more broad category which includes tackling and timing and approach and angle of slide and reading the game, placement, covering, .... ( unless you want each one to be a separate item !!!! )

there are countless matters . but what I'm saying is we can bulk them into a manageable set of categories.
that's all.

would you be willing to rate 15 players on 57 different categories?
I doubt it.
and even if you do, I doubt there would be many ppl willing to go through all that.

hope you see the point now.

but I agree on the broad point of fitness and physical preparedness/discipline of players which is an important aspect.
I have added this suggestion also.

==========================

and as for the last sentence, I must say hardly there are more than a handful of iranian players who are truly "professional".

and besides, we are talking about which ones are the better ones among those available to us.
surely even in a pro league there are some who are better than others.

lets not complicate matters here.

[yashar_fasihnia]

not everything psychological is micro and everything physical is macro in my opinion. and those i mentioned are much more valuable than something like "who has longer legs"

communication skills and team work is very macro in my opinion.
same goes for alertness, response time and decision making.
experience and ability to read the game is of high importance as well.
concentration, intelligence and pyschological fitness is also very crucial.
positioning and "baziye bedune toop" also is something that should be given importance.

and its in these areas that iranian players in my opinion are lagging behind worldclass players by a huge gap. many of our big talents have failed because of such less apparent attributes.

[shayan20]