TM selection for North Korea game

[Ali Chicago]

Although I think you are a bit harsh on Daei , but in principle I agree that the biggest loser is Ali Karimi.


I am actually quite surprised while quickly reading through the comments on Karimi's rejection , that people find it strange !!!

WOW... People wake up. This is THE REAL ALI KARIMI . He is not a fake , he is not pretending , he is not putting on a show , it is the real life Ali Karimi. When it hits him in the head , with his unpredictable moods , he walks on the pitch , walks off training , refuses to talk to anyone , puts his Ipod and ignore anyone or anybody in front of or around him , kicks at objects and sometimes just disappears.

The man is just like that.


Time for Team Melli to move on, Frankly we need such attitude as much as we need a bullit in the head.

Not that ,it will make a difference to you and I am sure you find a million reasons to argue your point. But what Karimi did was respecting himself. Ali is a Super Star and as a Super Star needs to be respected. When he felt he isn't seens and treated like one, in the interest of the country he excused himself.

What would you rather see, Karimi goes to the practice and a cold war between him and the head coach? Many of you called Karimi is done and is old and this and that. He proved many wrong again. He was treated, acknowkledged with respect and like a Superstar that he is (Nouri giving him the capitancy band in the Pegah game for example), and you saw the result. In Bayern or some god damn Qatari club he was treated like any other player and we saw the result too.

I disagree with Payman's evaluation of Karimi being the final looser of this. Karimi has nothing to prove anymore. He acheived AFC player of the year, went to Europe, made money, he probably will shine in the AFC Championship league and prove the naysayers wrong again.


To me his action shows that he is an honest man. He feels Daie doesn't value him (remember earlier comments by Daie) and he doesn't just pretened like everything is normal and potentially create more side issues for the TM.

I respect him for his decision and wish him the best of luck.

[Mr.Good]

The only confused one i see here is you.

Partial list was announced 16 Mehr
Complete list 17 Mehr

There was no reason not to wait 24 hours to release a complete list. it is simply stupid unless as report indicate there were players from Both Abo and perspolis under consideration as clearly identified in report. If their performance did not Mather why not release complete list once ?

Please Stop arguing just for the sake of arguing,

How about this;
partial list (great Majority of the players) was announced a day before, so the players have the time to get to TM camp from all around Iran.

[BehzadB]

Some are making a big deal out of nothing. Daei didn't postpone the selection of PP players, rather he already announced the partial list earlier, which seems very confusing to many. You didn't expect Daei to select the other players a day before the IPL round, so why the big fuzz about PP players - or rather about announcing the partial list a day earlier?

do most countries call partial list or do they mostly call the whole list?

So the question is, what's more strange?
questioning a partial list that couldn't wait 24 hours, or questioning the critic of that action??

[Doctor DOOM]

majid jan, I am not harsh on anyone of the two.
BOTH have conducted themselves wrongly and are at fault in this.
and we all know it is an EGO thing !

ok, actually I'd say the biggest loser is Iran. daei and karimi have lost face and respect equally in this issue. as I said earlier, now, we have to use TWO players for what ONE karimi could do in the team. and that is loss.


which makes me respect MAHDAVIKIA even more than before.
The guy is just a class above all these ppl.
I used to really like the guy ( after daei ) and respect him. But he has not shown even a bit of ego in this matter, despite daei's words and acts, and unlike karimi, has put TM and IRAN above his own agenda and ego.

karimi and daei, BOTH showed it is very easy to bring in personal grudges into the affairs of TM.
and KIA showed he is ABOVE all that.

mashalah Mehdi. mashalah.
You are the best.
just a class above all the rest.

====================


on the matter of "partial list" and then adding to the list and all those shinanigans, I must agree with StMark and many others.

it's just an unnecessary childish thing that we , Iranians have been doing for a long time. not only daei and his staff, but also GN, and branko and ... and all those coaches who do this.

what's the point in releasing a partial list on wednesday when you can release the whole bloody list on thursday ?
what is it serving?
what is the compulsion ?
why cant you wait for ALL the games to finish and then like the rest of the world, release the list?
if the coach wants to maintain a level of motivation among the teams playing the next day , well then release the whole damned list on that day. why piece by piece? what and who does this "piece by piece" serve anyway?
NO ONE and NOTHING.


and I dont buy the "players arrive early" bit when they didnt even hold a session before the final list.
come on ppl. you know it doesnt make sense. otherwise, as behzad said, the rest of the countries also would do the same.

I say it's a rather stupid matter.... nevertheless small.

as stupid and illogical as some other rules in our football like the "clubs having more than X number of players at TM can skip their league games" and some other nonsensical rules.

[Doctor DOOM]

[Mr.Good]

I still think we are making a huge deal out of the partial list issue. it is nothing, a really tiny issue blown up.

btw, the rest of the football world does not have majority of the games on one day and only one game on another day...

[perspolees]

there is no logic and rational on partial list period!
if there were they would have at least announced it.
Why is it that daei is not explaining what his thought process was!!?

this again is an obvious ambush by politicians to bring back Karimim and face him against Daei to pass out their own points and I am glad that Karimi did not play their game.
This was not footballers deciding this is all politics and the face off of diff supporting and opposing groups

daei would have benched karimi and the saga would have hurt us more

so I say ty karimi for keeping the peace!

[kaz]

Please Stop arguing just for the sake of arguing,
How about this;
partial list (great Majority of the players) was announced a day before, so the players have the time to get to TM camp from all around Iran.

That actually makes no sense. Not one iota. In fact, the partial list could have made players even more late in getting ready. If you have 1 more day to ready...then you will be more ready.

[Martin-Reza]

The only confused one i see here is you.

Partial list was announced 16 Mehr
Complete list 17 Mehr

There was no reason not to wait 24 hours to release a complete list. it is simply stupid unless as report indicate there were players from Both Abo and perspolis under consideration as clearly identified in report. If their performance did not Mather why not release complete list once ?

Again, there was no postponement or delay, but instead the invited players who already played before Wednesday were already announced EARLIER. Simple point and nothing to argue about. Still you talk about "waiting" while in your earlier post you talk about releasing the list prematurly. So you seem confused about what the problem is, partial list too early or complete list too late? Make up your mind before you throw accusations around.

Anyway, there was no disadvantage whatsoever by announcing the players from the IPL clubs who already played their last game ahead of the TM match a day before the PP players. Why do you try to create a problem where there isn't any? Name me a disadvantage for any player, from PP or another club, due to this action.

do most countries call partial list or do they mostly call the whole list?
So the question is, what's more strange?
questioning a partial list that couldn't wait 24 hours, or questioning the critic of that action??

That actually makes no sense. Not one iota. In fact, the partial list could have made players even more late in getting ready. If you have 1 more day to ready...then you will be more ready.

I also agree with Mr. Good. Of course it helps the players and clubs when they know earlier who will be in TM camp and who not. Normally the players are contacted via phone and informed, but I don't know if all are informed that way, so publishing the list makes 100% sure everyone knows where he's going to be for the next days as early as possible. How can you get ready when you don't know if you have to get ready for a travel etc.?? And agin, for the meanwhile 5th time: What disadvantage is created by announcing the partial list as soon as most IPL games were played? Noone would object either when the legionnairs would have been announced on Sunday night already after their games finished.

[BehzadB]

Although you didn't answer my question, but on side note, whenever Daie has been given an example about 'other countries' he has always said, We are not them.

my question was very simple, do most other countries/coaches announce partial lists, or do they announce the whole list?

the example you gave is in fact a 'strange' behavior unless he is adding players due to injury.

I don't have a problem with the idea that coach can do whatever he wants. MK wanted his players to pray the night before the game.. Daie wants to call partial list, only to be completed 24 hours later and you are saying that is not a big deal, we are not saying it is a big deal, but certainly abnormal.

[Martin-Reza]

Although you didn't answer my question, but on side note, whenever Daie has been given an example about 'other countries' he has always said, We are not them.
my question was very simple, do most other countries/coaches announce partial lists, or do they announce the whole list?
the example you gave is in fact a 'strange' behavior unless he is adding players due to injury.
I don't have a problem with the idea that coach can do whatever he wants. MK wanted his players to pray the night before the game.. Daie wants to call partial list, only to be completed 24 hours later and you are saying that is not a big deal, we are not saying it is a big deal, but certainly abnormal.

Well, I indirectly answered as I said strange or not strange is not the question here as there are no disadavantages whatsoever and that, although a complete list at once undoubtedly is standard, not calling a complete list is surely not unique in World football.

It's cool that you don't see as a big deal either, because complaining about that is like complaining that the coach named the players in alphabetical order rather than position-wise or by number. Might be different, but makes no difference in the end.

The fact that most players and managers now could plan a day earlier is an advantage which I think is the reason for this. But in he end too unimportant to discuss actually.

[St_Mark]

No. It is you who are very confused and trying to confuse this really simple issue.
There was no good reason to release partial list a day before final list.
1- If Alidaei had decided on complete list and only released partial on Mohr 16 that is useless and stupid( flawed decision).
2- If he only decided on 23 and waited to see performance of few players during Mashhad game then his logic is flawed as I elaborated in first post simply what will happen if those players he had in mind did not play well like Zare and Nouri? He still invited them, so there was no reason to delay a list 24 hours in their case . No reasonable observer can fairly argue Zare and Nouri was invited base on performance of last game , if so , their nomination was delayed.
3- Alidaei himself in his brief interview yesterday was specific that he has invited Alikarimi because of his performance (including last game). This furthermore proves, he had delayed his final selection a day.

در مورد دعوت از كريمي بايد بگويم كه اگر كريمي در دو سه بازي اخير خود آماده نشان نمي*داد و بازي درخشاني نداشت به تيم ملي فوتبال دعوت نمي*شد.

.
There was no logical reason to relapse a partial list 24 hours before last it was useless and inconsistent with their other claims.
This is my last response in this tread, case is so simple to understand ,its waiste of time to argue with you as usual.

[Martin-Reza]

Maybe we can do without the "you are confused", "no, you are confused" part.

You still didn't decide.

There was no good reason to release partial list a day before final list.

This furthermore proves, he had delayed his final selection a day

So what now? You complain about the partial list in many words but fail to say clearly: When should he have announced the complete list? Tuesday or Wednesday? Or before or after PP game?

Then let me add you have no clue what Daei was looking for. As if performance would be the sole criteria and a one-dimensional thing. Maybe he had those 3 players already certainly on the list and wanted to see how eg. Nikbakht and Mojtaba Shiri do, how their form is. Should he have announced those three names already before and then added possible others? Or should he have explained who are the possible candidates ahead of the game? There are many other possible reasons for this, which neither you or me as non-coaches ever thought about.

The process of selection was probbaly the same as always, just that he usually doesn't announce the almost complete list a day earlier which makes everyone feel fine. Now that he did it otherwise it's suddenly a big deal because now you realize he probably always knows his partial list a day earlier.

Just that you don't see a logical reason behind it doesn't mean there is none. You have no clue what you're talking about and base your comments of some 3-year-old's idea of how a coach usually selects a team and blame the coach when his actions don't correspond with your naive ideas.

When does/did the camp start? Today? So you expect the coach to release the list a day before the players gather? Normally coaches wait with releasing the list until all matches are played, but when the league games are scheduled like this it's totally legitimate to announce a partial list as early as possible. I'm sure Kia and the other legionnairs were already informed on Sunday. Big deal.

What's the problem anyway? Next time you start complaining about the order of the names on the list because it's unusual or what?

[maij]

majid jan, I am not harsh on anyone of the two.
BOTH have conducted themselves wrongly and are at fault in this.
and we all know it is an EGO thing !

ok, actually I'd say the biggest loser is Iran. daei and karimi have lost face and respect equally in this issue. as I said earlier, now, we have to use TWO players for what ONE karimi could do in the team. and that is loss.


which makes me respect MAHDAVIKIA even more than before.
The guy is just a class above all these ppl.
I used to really like the guy ( after daei ) and respect him. But he has not shown even a bit of ego in this matter, despite daei's words and acts, and unlike karimi, has put TM and IRAN above his own agenda and ego.

karimi and daei, BOTH showed it is very easy to bring in personal grudges into the affairs of TM.
and KIA showed he is ABOVE all that.

mashalah Mehdi. mashalah.
You are the best.
just a class above all the rest

The reason I said you were harsh on Daei is due to my firm believe that any coach worth his while MUST select players on his own accord, conviction and belief. The reasons could be anything from A to Z , regardless.

If we have to progress in football , we must start acting professional. This rish safidi , interventions , and khaye male or Iroono bazi ( call it whatever you want ) must stop. How many times players and teams have been penalized in Iran and then pardoned just because Mr. X said so ???

I strongly disagree that Iran or Team Melli is the loser….. I have said this a million time and I keep repeating it…this country has enough resources, talents, dedicated young men to produce quality teams for a few generation and they have proven that. Team Melli is not about one person or two, be it Ali Daei or Ali Karimi. If Team Melli success and glory is dependent on the shoulder of one or two persons , one simply cannot consider this a Football team.

The fact that Karimi is absent , will give a boost for all those young men to shine and who is there to tell me that better than Ali Karimi will not appear with the Team Melli sooner or later?

I do agree with you on Mahdavikia…. Don’t forget that Mehdi has a completely different mindset than Karimi. This is why I said that those crappy news published by some dubious sport newspaper where Kia accused Daei and Team Melli was false….This is a solid proof.

[maij]

Not that ,it will make a difference to you and I am sure you find a million reasons to argue your point. But what Karimi did was respecting himself. Ali is a Super Star and as a Super Star needs to be respected. When he felt he isn't seens and treated like one, in the interest of the country he excused himself.

I am not in the business of servicing players ego. My motive for supporting Team Melli is a bit different than yours. I am not following the interest of a individual players. I want success for Team Melli and Iran , and unless these players are ready for the call of duty , I could careless about their affairs , egos or what have you.

What would you rather see, Karimi goes to the practice and a cold war between him and the head coach? Many of you called Karimi is done and is old and this and that. He proved many wrong again. He was treated, acknowkledged with respect and like a Superstar that he is (Nouri giving him the capitancy band in the Pegah game for example), and you saw the result. In Bayern or some god damn Qatari club he was treated like any other player and we saw the result too.

Ah...OK... so in Bayern Munich and Qatar FC , they should have laid the red carpet in front of him , spread red roses along his path and perhaps drove him to matches in a Rolls Royce in order for him to deliver !!!

Certainly a new concept in professional football.

Let me tell you that it does not work and will never work. This special treatment can happen in Iran and is referred to as Baizokn Salarai, but in the professional clubs of Europe , the though is just absurd.

I disagree with Payman's evaluation of Karimi being the final looser of this. Karimi has nothing to prove anymore. He acheived AFC player of the year, went to Europe, made money, he probably will shine in the AFC Championship league and prove the naysayers wrong again.

Well, I am sure that Agha Peyman is more than capable to respond himself , but the fact that karimi has nothing to prove to anyone , is simply the same argument that I have put before.
My question is , who put Karimi on the map?
What is your priority , Team Melli interest or individuals?

To me his action shows that he is an honest man. He feels Daie doesn't value him (remember earlier comments by Daie) and he doesn't just pretened like everything is normal and potentially create more side issues for the TM.

I respect him for his decision and wish him the best of luck.

I don't know if my thoughts or respect have changed on Karimi , to me this is typical Karimi and I was certainly was not shocked at his move. It is kind of de ja vu.

I would have changed my mind about Karimi if he joined the squad and tried to act professionally and DID NOT create hashiye. Kia was also not invited , he is certanly not making a big issue.

Like I said , it seems we have different ideas on this subject , mine is the interest of Team Melli , yours is the ego of one star.