Iran vs. North Korea [Post Match Discussion]

[purple_haze]

I guess I too have to repeat what I said in the general forum:

North Korea is a very good team and we got the win, BUT that's it and in all honesty it wasn't a very deserved one.
We played well for about 25 minutes of the first half and about 10-15 minutes in the second.
Our players stopped running after about 60 minutes and except for the occasional combination between Kia and Kaebi there was no coordination what so ever and everyone was playing for themselves. They did to us what we did to Saudi in the second half. In that game we had 2-3 goal chances and scored one, this time the Koreans had 5-6 chances scoring one. That time Daei reacted well and rectified his mistakes, but this time he reacted bad and added to his initial mistakes instead.

What upsets people is why a hyped team playing in front of it's fans, has to start panic defending for 20+ minutes, why a home team has a total of 2 shots (both being way off-target) in 90 minutes, while the other team had so many shots that I lost count for and most of them on target.
I must say I'm very concerned that with this type of display, when the tables are turned and we have to play in their home field, it could end very bad and quite embarrassing for us.

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Generally when you play with 2 strikers at least one has to be good in the air and have a physical presence and the cooperation between the 2 is crucial. Today we had 2 forwards had no combination or understanding of each other, both short and speedy and none of them has exactly ever been known for being team players. Now Rezaei is way better and hard working that Khatibi, but they are basically copies of one another, one being way worse. Why on earth would you play with 2 forwards that have speed as their main strength when the opponents have speed as their main characteristic and can futilise them, while you can easily take advantage of their weaknesses by having a taller forward with good heading ability? You would then have material for variation cooperation and combination.

This can be applied to the central defender posts as well. Again 2 of the same kind are playing next to each other. Both lacking speed badly and sadly enough, one thing they are supposed to be good at which is areal ability has failed them in 2 consecutive matches as well!

The Spain combo were also very disappointing. While Nekounam basically had the same kind of performance as against the Saudis, which was below average but saved by scoring a goal, Shojaei was the exact opposite of himself against the Saudi. He killed the little speed our team at times would build up, he didn't run and like the central defenders, the one thing he's supposed to be good at which is individual skill failed him big time. It's rather embarrassing for a offensive mid, the play maker playing in Spain and having done well there, not to be able to get passed the opponent more than 2-3 times in 90 minutes and being so ineffective not having sent any useful through passes during the entire game. The pseudo assist he had on Javad's goal, was initially sent to the wrong place and redirected by the korean defender into Javad's path. Yet he was kept on the field for 90 minutes and Jabbari was subbed. The guy is obviously very talented and skillful, but he is oh so ineffective.

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All this may sound negative, but it's out of concern. Anybody who chooses to close his/her eyes on the facts and reality is certainly up for a rude awakening later on.
I wish our senior team could be a little more like our youngsters who played earlier today. It was pure joy to watch and promising. I hope that team keeps progressing under their great coach Alidousti and in time mature to be our senior TM with Alidousti still as their coach.

speaking of daei's personal grudges and how absolutely INACCURATE they are, I'd like to add this too:
the karimi we saw lately was equal to shojaei, mixed with khatibi mixed with nekounam of today.
1 player could have done the job of all these 3 players rather easily, but for the matter of "ego" of our two egotistical stars !!!

While watching Shojaei's miserable display today, I was thinking to myself : Damn, I wish this kindergarten stuff and clash of egos wouldn't have happened, because Karimi of the late, even if not fully fit or whatever, would've taken the totally ineffective Shojaei to school. Shojaei even on his better days, is still an ineffective player. He's been nicknamed "sho time" as in show time, because he's still more into showing off his skills and imagine the day when even that part of his game doesn't work..or wait, don't imagine, just look at the game today!

[Ali Chicago]

^ Well, as we expected Daei went for 4-1-3-2 in which Kia fits perfectly. ....

So now we go dice and disect 4-4-2 diamond vs. 4-1-3-2? It is amazing you took these line ups so literally to the word. This is not Basketball that coach can take a time out and remind players what to do again. These formations are an overall guidelines given to the player and during the game at least until the half, player's based on their talent and smart and tactical level, can stick to those provided guide lines.

Would you mind highlight the differences in a right mid in 4-4-2 diamond vs. a 4-1-3-2 right mid? In most part it has to do with how close or far from the touch line the midfielder plays range of offensive, defensive duties.


Guess if Daie said Kia does't fit his so called 4-4-2 diamond, now that he played Kia, it must have been!!! that Daie changed his tactic. Anyways, no point in going back and forth about it.

[Doctor DOOM]

why play 2 exact copy & similar strikers ( both of whom are not the right TYPE of forwards needed for such a game) ?
simple answer:
inexperience and being blind due to rafigh-baazi.
in other words, POOR COACHING.
nothing else.

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btw, yashar is right.
instead of seeing shojaei off after his poor showing, we saw jabbari get subbed !!!!

[maij]

Trying to get a hold of one single item that could have made a difference on this match was difficult , but as usual there were quite a few gaps and here is my views:

-Tactically and technically TM was superior in the the first periods , but like many matches before they slowly but surely lost the grip n the match. Normally such loss of control requires player changes ( not necessarily that this change is for the better, but psychologically effective).

- I think Daei subs were late , although the players he substituted had no real affect on the game rhythm and were far from being useful.

- Team Melli for decades have proven that Iranians are quite slow , in fact , much slower than international standard. When I say slow , I am talking about the pace of the players rather than the speed of the individuals. They will always face difficulties against the much faster East Asians and this match was yet another evidence of that.

- I thought Khatibi did quite well initially , but went back to his old tricks or let us say , ineffectiveness. Seriously now, there should be an end to his international career...with all due respect.

- We had problems with lack of tall players up front to give us aerial power , but guess who heads the first goal. , Mehdi Agha one of the shortest players in the squad.

- Defense is not organized and once again their man marking is quite poor. Same marking errors I noticed in the U16 match against UAE earlier in the day. Iranian coaches are in serious need to teach good defensive tactics to the youngsters specially man marking.

- Shojaei had very good touches , but like the rest of the team , except for Gholam Reza Rezaei , he was way short on pace and speed.

- Shooting is scarce in Team Melli. Again , this is a weakness that needs to be addressed by Daei.

- North Korea is a formidable team. This is the third or fourth match I have watched and I seriously think , they will be a difficult opponent for all the other teams. Do not count them out. Their lack of skill is substituted by pace , shooting and pure force.

- Very important 3 points and Team Melli MUST get the maximum points from home court.

[The-Red]

ye kam khosh shans boodim, bayad ghabool konim...considering the game was in Tehran, I didn't think we have to thank Rahmati at the end of the game for the 3 points, we did that last time in Riyadh, remember.
And again, thank God we got the points we aimed for, but these perfromances won't get us to the wc, I still say this, unless we get to play better tactically and be more professional, not lose focus after a lead.

[Hajagha]

We can whine all day long, but nothing will be changed.

In a day that many of our key players had a day-off, we pull down a sweet 3 points. That’s count. The rest is history.

But as the tradition we should show off our knowledge of football is better than the coach, here is my analysis:

- Tactically, we had no problem due to our resources. However in our dream team, we could have had a taller center forward.
-- Shojaei was supposed to provide what Ronaldinho, Robinio or C. Ronaldo does in their teams. Keeping the ball a bit longer than normal and provide key-passes and goal opportunities. Well, he didn’t.
-- Nekonam did not shine and never showed confidence in the ball distribution.
-- Aghili was the same as Nekonam.

These three players are our main players which the rest of the teams are in their service. Imagine when neither of them can do their duties.

A coach can not do any thing when such a thing happens. He can’t even change his line-up next time as they are his main players.

Unlike many of you guys criticizing Khatibi, I think he did a good job and the only thing he didn’t was scoring while he had only half a chance to do so, while he provided a good number of key passes. He didn’t keep the ball for so long, he had a good speed, and he kept pressing the defenders and had them on their heel.

The best offensive player to my eyes was Rezaei, this guy is getting better and better. Jabari was OK too, however he is not a 90-minute player. Zare did OK. Kia was a good captain and showed his experience. Hosseini was mmmm OK. Ka’abi was OK too.

Rahmati was super and must be named as the man of the match.

We missed Karimi in this game.

As a coach, I wouldn’t change the line-up and hope for better days. As a matter of fact, I can not change the line-up as this is what we have until Tores along with Gerrard change their nationality.

We should not forget to give a big credit to Korean with their superb performance. They had a number of very good players. Their goal was pure class and beauty.

Cheers,

[The-Red]

^I certain hope we continue to get the points, no matter how, but usually there is a limit to how many times your keeper can have a good game.
it's all about expectation, and I personally expected a better game plan and team work, but hey as you said Haji jan we won and the rest is history. Inshala we say this again in the next games as well.

[Doctor DOOM]

A coach can not do any thing when such a thing happens. He can’t even change his line-up next time as they are his main players.

well, things could have been better balanced and set from the beginning.

I ask why shd shojaei and jabbari start at the same time?
that's just what I always called "playing names rather than playing players"
just becoz both are great players and stars it shd NOT mean both shd play.
these 2 vie for the SAME SPOT : offensive mid or playmaker.

I think it is wrong to force a player like shojaei or jabbari to the side of the field JUST SO WE COULD USE BOTH STARS in the team !!

it is unfortunate that one of them shd sit it out. but the TEAM's performance is a higher priority.

( the same thing is applied to using nekounam and ando together )



If Hajsafi had started on the left ( instead of any of the 2 above ), I dare say we'd have done better. coz hajsafi IS that kind of player who plays along the touchline and gives a dimension to that side.
neither shojaei nor jabbari can do that in that post. they both belong to the center.

with hajsafi we'd have had more width and more crossing and more options to get something done ASIDE from pentrating from the middle.


but that shd be accompanied by using a tall striker/center forward.


take the same team and put hajsafi on the left and salehi for khatibi, and I'm sure we'd have done far better.
coz we'd have more options, more dimensions and tactics at our disposal.

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picking two short and speedy forwards MAY be useful against uae. but we always knew before hand that it would be useless against a team like korea.
daei needs help in coaching and I'm afraid he may not be aware of it even !!!

[Hajagha]

I think it is wrong to force a player like shojaei or jabbari to the side of the field JUST SO WE COULD USE BOTH STARS in the team !!

....


If Hajsafi had started on the left ( instead of any of the 2 above ),

[Ali Chicago]

Haji jaan;

It is not about showing off our knowledge, this team has to play in Seoul against a Korean team that beat UAE 4-1.
Why Sayed Salehi was the only invitee and we had three copies of Khatibi, G Rezai, Khalatbari all invited? Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect a tall target forward, considering the height and aerial abilities of the North Korean defense?

When team is under pressure by Korea, Jabbari is being subbed by Zandi? Both of these two aren't known for their defensive abilities. Koreans winning a a lot of second balls around our 18 yards and what is the resonse of our coaching staff? Zandi for Jabbari? In 92nd minute M Zare comes in?

What was the logic of subs? You are a coach and one of the things you be evaluated (at least in the US is your game reading abilities). Was Daie trying to push the Korean back with the Zandi for Jabbari and Sayed Salehi for Khatibi? Then why Zare sub?


Anyways, I am at the point that it seems I am wasting time even argue about these points. It again remind me of that old song by Paul Simon in his Boxer song :

......
"All lies and jest"
" man hears what he wants to hear and disregard the rest". Why bother anymore? It seems some of us have made our mind " I am for this guy and against that guy". Goore Pedare how the team plays. Regardless of how what we like to dislike, at the end team plays in the field and that should be the yard stick, rather than try to shove the sutff under the carpet with some general statements like well top players like Nekoo, Aghili,... didn't play well, so what the coach can do?

Let me go on the limb here. Nekoonam in both KSA and this game wasn't good. Granted he scored in both games, but he isn't doing his defensive mid duties. What has been the solution by the TM staff? In playmaker position if Shojai has an off day, why he doesn't get subbed? you know what never mind, nothing gonna change, I am just fuming I guess. I am the stupid one who miss work and sit to watch something that I know better this team won't be able to provide.

When the coaching staff of the TM is comprised of a coach that had a club for a year at the IPL level and another caoch who never even coached at the IPL level, what can one expect? Not to mention an incompetent IFF and corrupt media. Guess I am the stupid one who still wants to beleive and need to find a way to deal with my soccer addiction.

[Hajagha]

Ali jan,

In short, lack of good sub's.

Daei tried to keep the Korean in their half by introducing two offensive players. Well, it didn't work as none of the players didn't have any impact. Asking me if we had better sub's on the bench for such a strategy, I don't think so. We could have had Karimi and Let's say Borhani or Ba'oo if they were on the squad. I could have brought them earlier if I trusted them, but I (and Daei) didn't.

Maziar Zare change was pure waste-time and keep the last drop of balls in dieing minutes.

[Doctor DOOM]

Doctor joon,
We have fundamental disagreement and I don’t think I can help it out to see the game from your view.
In my world, the new version of 4-4-2 formation, almost all four midfielder can be rotate their position. I encourage you to watch Arsenal, Man’Utd, Barcenola and such to see how you don’t see a winger any more and the offensive mid’s, particularly, rotate their positions constantly. As a matter of fact I play in this position and try to do so and exactly see how similar the duty of offensive mid and second (pseudo) forward are.
Second, I never bench a player like Shoajei for Hajsafi at this time with fact on ground, maybe a few years later, but not now, for sure.
Cheers,

reza jan, if we had players like rooney, iniesta, xavi, robben, .... then we wouldnt be having this conversation, would we ?

the thing is just becoz those players can play that system and deliver the duties, does NOT mean our players can, just becoz ON PAPER they have the same posts or the same jersey numbers !

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and you saying you never bench a player like shoajei for hajsafi precisely indicates what I wrote in my previous post.
we either play "names" or we play the players that deliver the duties.

you look at the "name" of shojaei and say you never bench him.
but I say we need a player who can stretch the defense and constantly cross the ball from the left. now, if hajsafi can do it better, then hajsafi will play.

that's the fundamental difference between the two philosophies.
some coaches like branko and daei, play the "names".
no wonder both these coaches end up playing a right midfielder as a left defender

[Kasra.]

I think Daei's biggest mistake was (after playing Khatibi for 70+ minutes) was subbing of Jabbari instead of Shojaei. Shojaei was like nowhere in the game. Khatibi is like the stupidest player TM has ever had. He did nothing, but he kept smiling I never get why he smiles.

Aghili was weak today, same as Nekounam. They both played beneath their level, but I hope we have a coach with balls, tells them that if they want to continue in this form, they are on the bench.

Rezaei was useless today. He ran a lot, but it was all useless. He remembered me to the Madanchi of 3-4 years ago. And last but not least, we missed a striker. Neither Khatibi nor Rezaei is a striker in my book.
We need somebody who can take advantage of those long balls, not 2 kuchulu players, because at this point 0.5 + 0.5 is not 1.

[zzgloo]

Good strategy to score early...and that was the only positive plan I noticed.
We are so lucky we play in Asia....,and elementary game plans or no plans at all,gives us wins !!thats great !
very bad, center defense TM had to offer....
Midfield did not know what to do.
Offense ,was midfiled !!
Thanks God, we do not have quality opponanats !
Thanks to our players....and hope we could get our !!!!!!!!, together for the next game!!

[gol_kuchik]

First I am glad Daei took it N.Korean in the first half. They are probably the fastest
team in our group, yet in the first 30-40 minutes we pressed them so well they did not
know what hit them when they took the goals. But my main concerns are:

1-Our defenders do not seem to know basic marking technique! This was a set piece
for heavens sake, we had no one on this tall player. We had 4 players around the
striker yet no one could do any thing.

2-Worse were the rest of second half free shots taken on our goal. To be frank if you
compare our total real attacks with theirs *WE GOT LUCKY*.

3-There is an "Iranian PAUSE" noticable both in our Futsal and Football. For some
reason with the exception of couple of players, most of our players play with their
heads DOWN when they move forward. At some point they realize they have to
pass the ball!!! and then they stop and look to find the open player. By that time,
the defending team has recovered!

4-Both Aghili and Hoseini are super slow. That's just amazing. But I dont know what
the solution is. We are just lucky in the start Koreans were dizzy, or they had 3 clear
chances to score from close range.

5-How many shots did Korean take on our goal? How many did we on theirs?
Why not mix it instead of just the air show which became predictable? All TM
players (at least half backs) must practice taking 30-40 yard shot practice and be
supervised by a coach. They simply lack the skill: Rezai, Shojai, Jabari all
fit in this category (and more).

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ALL IN FAVOR OF HAVING QUALITY FRIENDLY GAME AGAINST REAL
OPPONENT raise your hand.