Iran vs. North Korea [Post Match Discussion]

[zzgloo]

You can sit from now to eternity and take about what you deserves. IF this or if that......The real world is something else.

Majid jaan........................

You are just like Payman e khodemoon, !!
Just like him is with Zare and was with Branko !!,( Payman jaan forgive me ! ,as you two are different otherwise )
Likewise ,You are with ; "our Bezzaat ",and " People are not qualified to critisize " , " Be a good Loser " !
I love you both as fellow members here....but, both of you are stubborn to death, with your own Ideas !as it is " Harfe mard yekieh " ,and go so far to stick to your points !

Majid jaan,

You go ahead ,and live in your own " real world ", and , " Please ", allow us to live in ours' !,



.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........


PS,......I checked my " Stats ",as you recommanded,..
and here is from AFC site :in the history of Asian football;
japan,saudis,South Korea,& Iran have won 3 times each..
.hence, the statement ,"no one has ever won more than Iran " was correct ,
As All my 10 points I wrote were correct and related to football, please read them again if you can !
German Media in Tehran during the game vs TM said that !
Futsal is Foundation of football in Iran.( because of our talents grow on Asphalts not on green fields )
UAE has money and can hire whom ever they want.
Here is the final point from AFC; Then you, tell me our " BEZZAAT ";

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Team Pts P W D L GF GC Dif %
1 Iran 90 44 26 12 6 86 29 +57 68,2%
2 Korea Republic 69 40 20 9 11 67 46 +21 57,5%
3 Saudi Arabia 53 29 14 11 4 42 21 +21 60,9%
4 Kuwait 52 33 14 10 9 42 31 +11 52,5%
5 China PR 45 35 12 9 14 52 38 +14 42,9%
6 Japan 37 19 11 4 4 34 18 +16 64,9%
7 United Arab Emirates 30 23 8 6 9 18 27 -9 43,5%
8 Qatar 20 19 4 8 7 18 25 -7 35,1%
8 Syria 20 15 6 2 7 11 18 -7 44,4%
10 Iraq 15 15 4 3 8 15 21 -6 33,3%
11 Thailand 11 17 1 8 8 14 35 -21 16,7%
12 Korea DPR 10 9 3 1 5 12 17 -5 37,0%
13 Indonesia 8 12 2 2 8 10 28 -18 22,2%
14 Myanmar 7 4 2 1 1 4 5 -1 58,3%
14 India 7 7 2 1 1 4 5 -1 33,3%
16 Jordan 6 4 1 3 0 3 1 +2 50,0%
16 Oman 6 6 1 3 2 5 6 -1 33,3%
16 Malaysia 6 6 1 3 2 6 8 -2 33,3%
19 Australia 5 4 1 2 1 7 5 +2 41,7%
19 Chinese Taipei 5 7 1 2 4 5 14 -9 23,8%
21 Singapore 4 4 1 1 2 3 4 -1 33,3%
21 Cambodia 4 5 1 1 3 8 10 -2 26,7%
21 Vietnam 4 4 1 1 2 4 7 -3 33,3%
21 Uzbekistan 4 6 1 1 4 5 20 -15 22,2%
25 Hong Kong 3 10 0 3 7 11 21 -10 10,0%
26 Bahrain 2 4 0 2 2 1 3 -2 16,7%
26 Lebanon 2 3 0 2 1 3 7 -4 22,2%
28 Turkmenistan 1 3 0 1 2 4 6 -2 11,1%
28 South Vietnam 1 6 0 1 5 11 20 -9 5,0%
30 South Yemen 0 2 0 0 2 0 9 -9 0,0%
30 Bangladesh 0 4 0 0 4 2 17 -15 0,0%


[edit] References and footnotes

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[Ali Chicago]

im not sure who u r referring to since u havent used any names (which has become a trend in ur posts recently..i wonder why ) but im pretty sure noone here approved many of litbarski's decision like playing hosseini as DM to to mark rivaldo and playi sharifinasab as last defender.
if u really r interested to prove a point here, i suggest u visit the disccusion thread of saipa and kuruvchi for proof of this and see if anyone agreed about this decision there or not.

nor do i recall anyone signing a blank check for every decision a coach makes. ferguson threw a boot at beckham, misaghian slapped and kicked his own player, khodad azizi pulled out his own player after conceding an own goal and decided to play with 10 players voluntarily isntead of 11 but hey, all this means that some members here think the coach knows the best and blindly approve watever they do!

....??

If you bothered to read my initial post cloesly, you had seen that I wrote "there are people who take this argument of PRO coaches know best TO THE EXTERME". Why do you think I wrote the word exterme? I don't write from Bokhare Medeh aghaye Yashar. Don't know to blame it to lack of attention, lack of proficiency in English or what else, you help me to identify that. Please think about it why did I use the word exterme? Did it occure to you that in general I agree with the attitude that a pro coach probably knows better, but there are facts during the game and he should be judged on events during the game (not becuase he is a pro coach). Did I use teh example of engineers, doctors and how there are good and bad ones and merely going through the schooling isn't qualifications enough?

So sad to see that you miss the whole point of my post. My post was criticizem of a attitude not attacking a person. At the end, X, Y, Z doesn't matter, metnal approach and attitude are in genral are important. Since Branko days, this arguments of who are you to even consider yourself worthy of criticizing the head coach's decision, after all they are PRO. The followers of this approach didnt' qualify when it is justified to criticize the coach and when it is not.

Had Litbarski not lost that game in such an eftezah way for some strange events in the field, was his action still right or not? The difference is some people try to think by their own brain (granted at times they may make mistakes), rather than following a fad, fashion etc. etc.

I am not here to make enemy and I am so sad to see that if I don't call up a name, my attempt to not making the issue personal is being misinterpreted by you and others. No wonder we are in such a mess as a nation!!!!! You are a business major right? Have you taken any course on giving feedback? If not go and read on the internet about it or ask your prof and you will see they will tell you criticize specific action not the person. Again so sorry to see your reaction and twisting this to Taaneh.

Agha Yashar:
Oftadegi ammoz aghar ghabel faizi
Hargez nakhoorad aab zamini ke boland ast

About Alizadeh and Abbasfard, I still beleive Abbasfard is a better forward and GN is making a mistake that uses two very similar forwards (Akbarpoor, Borhani) and taking away the aerial element from the SS game.

About 4-4-2 since head coach himself said, he played 4-4-2, I admit , I was wrong (see it doesn't kill anyone to admit he is wrong). I saw the game on the TV not in the stadium and on the TV it is very hard to talk about formation, since one can' tsee the whole team (camera shows a limited part of the field where ball is in that area). Having admitted that, I still insist (I watched the game again on Sunday), even if Ando's post was a right midfield in 4-4-2 diamond, he essentially didn't play in that position and fall back to play more toward the center of the field in the first half. That in part can explain why many people thought Iran played 4-2-3-1. Again, I am not disputing what head coach's line up was, he said it clearly, it was 4-4-2, but what happened in the real game was Ando in the first half was pretty even playing with Nekoonam. Second half things were different where Shojai was brought up to right mid and ando went to the center.

[Ali Chicago]

Talk about passing judgement!!!! Zaboon Deraz, and another five adjective later and some how I am passing judgement.!!!! Time will show. Khoda Ghoovat.

[zzgloo]

Talk about passing judgement!!!! Zaboon Deraz, and another five adjective later and some how I am passing judgement.!!!! Time will show. Khoda Ghoovat.

To Whom are you refering Ali Jaan ?
Do you also not like to be preached and misjudged, or even correctly judged !?
I have said it often.....No one can tell or should tell others how to talk or write or think ( if they are already under ethical code ) ...unless in islamic Republic !

[Doctor DOOM]

Before the Uzbakistan team and Saipa, Peter Litbarski the GERMAN head coach of the Saipa, runs Saipa players 100 yard dash about 15 times with 45 seconds to recover in between. He plays a central defender as a defenisve mid (jalal Hosseini) and a midfielder (Omid Sharifi Nasab) as a defender. But hey he is a PRO, what do I know. HE MUST BE RIGHT!!!!!! (Source is Mr. Daie in his 90 program interview)

This Uzgal, initially didn't put 4 team Melli players who play for Saipa in the list according to Mr. Daie. Then Mr. Sajaid CEO of Saipa club met with him and told him the importance of this game for Saipa. Litbarski called the 4 players back. You know what was Litbarski excuse after the loss? "They Had Rivaldo".

There are people on PFDC that take the arguments of caoches are PRO and know better to the exterme and who is X or Y to even think they can criticizer them. Mind you, no one in his right mind, claims he knows more than a pro head coach, he is criticizing certain decisions. But there are people who blur the line between the criticism and claim "that the critic think they know more than the head coach!!!!!!", usually to justify the decision of the head coach they support. Mind you same people when they see a similar action from another coach (the one they don't support) act and argue otherwise.

After reading this, can you still come back and say because someone he is a pro coach he must know better and a non pro can't criticize his decisions.
Again I am using this example to show how few people in the PFDC take the exterme the argument of "coaches are PRO, they know better"!!!!!

Now I personally never argued about why player X plays or got invited or not (except Karimi and to a lesser degree Kia). But I criticized when I see after say 4-5 months TM defense still acts lethargic on the second ball. This is an issue TM coaching staff need to work on (specifically there are drills in the soccer coaching books for this) and address it. I don't see that while I watch the TM. I criticize that, but then comes the argument "COACHES ARE PRO, THEY KNOW BEST".

perfectly said.
I couldnt have said it better myself.

this shows we are all human beings and prone to error .. even if some of us are pro coaches.
so blindly following the edict of X or Y solely becoz "he's the coach" does not make all his decisions correct or him perfect.

this, effectively, throws the argument "he's the coach, so he's right" (which is used to hammer any opposing ideas or comments ) right out the window, into the trash-bin.

================

in another post also, ali pointed out something that have been on my mind for soemtime now.

some of us behave quite peculiar.
for example if I like Mr. X , then I behave as if whatever X does is great and he is bereft of any fault. I also try to align my views and thoughts along with X's, no matter what.
so if X says this player is good, then automatically he's good in my books. and if X says that player isnt, then automatically ..... . and vice versa.
you get the drift I hope.

this is not INDEPENDENT thinking in my books.
this is not someone who can weigh different issues in his mind and come up with HIS OWN ideas and views.
this is someone putting all his trust in X and then closing up shop and going home, thinking X will do all that's right & necessary and wont make a mistake.
history has showed us such ppl are in for even more heart break than regular ppl. coz no man is perfect, Mr. X included.

let us have our own independent views on things. if they coincide with those of our heroes, then well & good. but if our heroes follow a different path that doesnt make sense, if we follow them blindly, we're only betraying ourselves & our values.

[Ali Chicago]

To Whom are you refering Ali Jaan ?
Do you also not like to be preached and misjudged, or even correctly judged !?
I have said it often.....No one can tell or should tell others how to talk or write or think ( if they are already under ethical code ) ...unless in islamic Republic !

Please read the past three four posts you will see for yourslef. In the bigger picuture, It doesn't matter. It is just amazing, when one get targeted labled those names (see few posts below please) then couple of post later, again he is accused of passing judgement!!! Talk about double wami. As if there is a pedar ***hteghi with X or Y.
See my other thread about Daie I opened last night. I don't have an issue with X or Y. Certian actions of Daie I like, certain I don't. Then I am the one who passes judgement.

Just for the sake of clarity, please see the Karimi thread and how quickly after a supposedly poor game ( I didn't see the PP - Foolad game, so I wouldn't know), certain negative comments about him in the newspapers, is being repeated, magnified, etc (and yet still the author talk about passing judgement).

[Doctor DOOM]

so when u dont know for sure if X or Y will perform better than zareh, how can u keep repeating this claim with so much certainity that TM is NOT working at its fullest potential???

what we DO KNOW is that those guys play in this position in their clubs and know the duties far better
what we DO KNOW is zareh doesnt play in this post and isnt all that familiar with the duties, hence his repeated failures in the post
what we DO KNOW is they've been having better games at that post in the league than many others.
but most importantly, what we DO KNOW is that zareh isnt good as a LB ( right mid? there, he's pretty good ), as his previous 11-12 TM games are testament to it.

I was being kind to you and not "hammering" the point home here by saying that "we wouldnt know X or Y could do the job better or not". that's just a figure of speech.
the reality is chances are those guys will do a far better job in the post , for the reasons mentioned above.

===================

majid jan, I do recognize all our shortcomings and lacks. in fact what we have achieved , takes a far more meaningful and valuable form, in the face of all those lacks and deficiencies.
any country with our crumbling infrstctr and non existent basic fundamentals wouldnt have achieved a quarter of what we have.
so there are other factors here that help our potential to achieve and our "beza'at" ALSO.

[zzgloo]

Please read the past three four posts you will see for yourslef. In the bigger picuture, It doesn't matter. It is just amazing, when one get targeted labled those names (see few posts below please) then couple of post later, again he is accused of passing judgement!!! Talk about double wami. As if there is a pedar ***hteghi with X or Y.
See my other thread about Daie I opened last night. I don't have an issue with X or Y. Certian actions of Daie I like, certain I don't. Then I am the one who passes judgement.
Just for the sake of clarity, please see the Karimi thread and how quickly after a supposedly poor game ( I didn't see the PP - Foolad game, so I wouldn't know), certain negative comments about him in the newspapers, is being repeated, magnified, etc (and yet still the author talk about passing judgement).

Ali Jaan, I once said, you are particularly sensetive and try so hard to convinse The mods more than other members...and you accused me of calling you " Kiss-ass " !!...............
I still think, Your judegments in general are mostly valid, correct and Moral, and fair.....but you just need every body's approval, which is impossible !!
You need to know, Being wrong comes in all shapes and sizes !!,And we can not change those who are that easily. nor is it our duty.

[Ali Chicago]

Not sure if your comment was aimed at me. But if it was, i have played soccer in many youth teams in Iran and no it wasn't goal kochich in the street only. Played against players like Fariba, Changize, Hajiloo, Bayani and Fardalinia brothers, panjali, Aboldali Changiz. Later played first division amature soccer in North America.
Since 1993 I have been coaching adults, youth, women teams in Canada and USA and currently I am a licensed coach from USSF. That doesn't mean I think I know better than a pro coach, but, this isn't just books.

Very nice post Agha Yashar.

The way people approach professionalism is quite intriguing to say the least.

On one hand, we have Mr. Good who says:

"I myself am an electrical engineer and have more than one higher degrees to prove it, but I will never tell an electrician who is working on a building or any other system how to do his job, no matter how many books I've read."

Meaning he has the full respect for that person that is doing the job on hand
On the other side of the coin, Ali is saying that he is a coach, so he has the full knowledge of what is going on in Team Melli and can pick up the shortcomings by whatever tools he uses for his analysis.

.

I copied and pasted what I typed last night above for the ease of reference. Can you show me where did I ever claim, I have full knowledge of the what is going on, in the TM? Please no soghra Kobra, where did I ever claim that?


As I said, I respect you enough to agree to disagree and dont' want to argue with you and damage this relationship more. Please stop putting words in my mouth, after all all the words are in print here.

Read my post again, all I said, was my comments don't come from the books. I have enough training and hands on experience as a player and coach (I played at the Tehran youth level in 1356) and later on high level competetive football not gol kochick. Don't make this any worst agah majid. I disagree with you but never put words in your mouth and misrepresented your posts. Once again, where did I ever say I have full knowledge of what is going on at the TM?

I watch the game and based on that I make conclusions and this is who everything works. You dont' care how many PHD/MBA or years of experience CEO of American/united Airline have. Maybe they were great CEO's before. You judge them based on how the company does. Same goes for football coaches.

I was man enough to say I was wrong in KSA-Iran game about 4-4-2. Wish other people followed the same path and werent' afraid to admit their mistakes.

[Ali Chicago]

Ali Jaan, I once said, you are particularly sensetive and try so hard to convinse The mods more than other members...and you accused me of calling you " Kiss-ass " !!...............
I still think, Your judegments in general are mostly valid, correct and Moral, and fair.....but you just need every body's approval, which is impossible !!
You need to know, Being wrong comes in all shapes and sizes !!,And we can not change those who are that easily. nor is it our duty.

I am not trying to win anyone's approval. It is when a fallacy is being sold under the premise of logical approach and so called professionalisem (an exterme case of since head coaches are PRO they must be right all the time), I try to counter it, with logic.

You saw I never arguned for player X or Y has to play, since I am not close to the team and can't see all the players in the IPL. So I yeild to the judgement of the coaching staff. Karimi's issue is a different story. But our team can't win the second ball in our defense is an observation and shortcoming. A good coaching staff,sees it, and try to address it, so across 5-6 games one should see improvements. When we dont' it is fair to point it out.

[yashar_fasihnia]

what we DO KNOW is that those guys play in this position in their clubs and know the duties far better

disagreed. zareh has played as LB for how many games now?? 30?all in the past few years which means recently. i think thats enough games for a professional footballer to become familiar with a certain position.

besides, just wondering, how many games has mehdy shiri played LB??
how many tough opponents has alenemeh faced as an LB compared to zareh who has been exposed to much more international games and higher quality opponents as an LB as opposed to sattar zareh??

what we DO KNOW is zareh doesnt play in this post and isnt all that familiar with the duties, hence his repeated failures in the post

i attribute his failure, more due to the fact that those are his abilities and we have to deal with it. after around 30 games, i think he should be quite familiar with this position. this is all he has got, atleast for a LB position. ofcourse a footballer learns the game more as he ages, no matter wat position he plays, but point is, after around 30 international games with different opponents of different sizes and quality and different coach's, u cant say he isnt all that familiar with his duties.

now, whether others like alenemeh or shiri will perform better than him in TM as an LB, remains to be seen.

but most importantly, what we DO KNOW is that zareh isnt good as a LB ( right mid? there, he's pretty good ), as his previous 11-12 TM games are testament to it.

again, he isnt my favorite player, but the others havent proven to be much better either (mainly, because they havent been tested much)
although i would like to see them being tested myself.

I was being kind to you and not "hammering" the point home here by saying that "we wouldnt know X or Y could do the job better or not". that's just a figure of speech.
the reality is chances are those guys will do a far better job in the post , for the reasons mentioned above.

sorry, but thats how u see it.



in conclusion, i just wanna repeat, u cant be 100% sure that the current TM is not at its full potential just because u disagree with certain player selections. ur just assuming the other options will be better, which could be true, but can be wrong as well.

but let me say this, we will never find out if a team is at full potential or not because there is no way everyone always agree to the same player selection and hence, there are always alternate players for a position who some might agree to be better than the current starters!

[yashar_fasihnia]

If you bothered to read my initial post cloesly, you had seen that I wrote "there are people who take this argument of PRO coaches know best TO THE EXTERME". Why do you think I wrote the word exterme? I don't write from Bokhare Medeh aghaye Yashar. Don't know to blame it to lack of attention, lack of proficiency in English or what else, you help me to identify that. Please think about it why did I use the word exterme? Did it occure to you that in general I agree with the attitude that a pro coach probably knows better, but there are facts during the game and he should be judged on events during the game (not becuase he is a pro coach). Did I use teh example of engineers, doctors and how there are good and bad ones and merely going through the schooling isn't qualifications enough?

So sad to see that you miss the whole point of my post. My post was criticizem of a attitude not attacking a person. At the end, X, Y, Z doesn't matter, metnal approach and attitude are in genral are important. Since Branko days, this arguments of who are you to even consider yourself worthy of criticizing the head coach's decision, after all they are PRO. The followers of this approach didnt' qualify when it is justified to criticize the coach and when it is not.

Had Litbarski not lost that game in such an eftezah way for some strange events in the field, was his action still right or not? The difference is some people try to think by their own brain (granted at times they may make mistakes), rather than following a fad, fashion etc. etc.

no, i didnt miss out on the word "extreme" that u used, but since i know this post was pointed at me (u have made similar arguments against me before and the fact that u have been making "indirect tanee's" recently made it clear it was towards me), i want to point out i dont use this "coach knows best excuse" to an extreme like u put it

now im pretty sure u r not convinced and u still think the same, but i wanted to make sure i give my opinion on this issue as well.
u think i dont think with my own brain and follow a fad or fasion(thats if u think this way), if u havent seen my criticisms of different coachs or players i like, then i cant help it, thats ur opinion, but i wanted to make sure i have responded to ur opinion as well and now that i think i did, so i wont engage in this discussion any further.

but agreeing with a coach on certain controversial decisions doesnt mean u follow a fashion. u dont always have to disagree with someone to prove ur not following a pattern.
however, in football, when u compare the circumstances of a fan sitting thousands of kilometers away from the camp behind his computer and the coach who eats and breathes with his players day in day out, i personally give the benefit of the doubt to the coach in certain controversial decisions.

u can call that not thinking with ur own brain or watever, but im pretty sure i dont sign blank checks for any coach and just wanted to reply to u who asked the question indirectly to come and answer now after daei criticized littbarski.

I am not here to make enemy and I am so sad to see that if I don't call up a name, my attempt to not making the issue personal is being misinterpreted by you and others. No wonder we are in such a mess as a nation!!!!! You are a business major right? Have you taken any course on giving feedback? If not go and read on the internet about it or ask your prof and you will see they will tell you criticize specific action not the person. Again so sorry to see your reaction and twisting this to Taaneh.

i have noticed ur posts and ur attitude recently, towards me ( i wont talk on others behalf) and beleive me, im not stupid, i know when ur "tane'e mizani" or u find it difficult to quote my posts to reply or mention my name when u wanna direct a post at me but u prefer to use terms like "CERTAIN MEMBERS" or "CERTAIN BLUE FANS"...

ofcourse, there is no way i can prove ur true intentions, but i will be very happy to show the difference in ur attitude when posting on PFDC recently and a few months back. i can bring examples from the esteghlal fan thread, from the F+ forum or from some threads in the football forum like the karimi letter to kafashian thread where i had done the translation and u made a post along the lines of "i dont know who did that translation..or watever" when martin had clearly mentioned i had translated it!

none of us are here to make enemies ali agha. but some of us tend to keep things in our heart longer and with a slight "keene"(maybe keene is a harsh word but i couldnt find a better word for it) or "a point to prove" compared to others.

i too could have made a post or a thread, excplitcly mentioning and highlighting arguments like DAEI CONFIRMED WE PLAYED 4-4-2 AND NOT 4-2-3-1 FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO WERE ARGUIN OTHERWISE or i could have brought tens of examples and threads where people insulted daei, khatibi, enayati, much worse than the "karimi bigheyrat" post u reported but u never bothered reporting those posts. i could have done these just to prove a point to u explictly but i didnt cos it doesnt interest me nor am i trying to prove myself to u or anyone else.
and unlike u who was still making some negative remarks about me in pm to the other staff, i didnt bother going and talking about u to others....

however, u have been making such posts for sometime now like the game abbasfard and borhani started for esteghlal and god knows how many times u were indirectly referring to that discussion after that game or this post of urs today regarding the "coach knows best" argument.

im sorry to see someone much more older and experienced than myself acting this way.

Agha Yashar:
Oftadegi ammoz aghar ghabel faizi
Hargez nakhoorad aab zamini ke boland ast
About Alizadeh and Abbasfard, I still beleive Abbasfard is a better forward and GN is making a mistake that uses two very similar forwards (Akbarpoor, Borhani) and taking away the aerial element from the SS game.
About 4-4-2 since head coach himself said, he played 4-4-2, I admit , I was wrong (see it doesn't kill anyone to admit he is wrong). I saw the game on the TV not in the stadium and on the TV it is very hard to talk about formation, since one can' tsee the whole team (camera shows a limited part of the field where ball is in that area). Having admitted that, I still insist (I watched the game again on Sunday), even if Ando's post was a right midfield in 4-4-2 diamond, he essentially didn't play in that position and fall back to play more toward the center of the field in the first half. That in part can explain why many people thought Iran played 4-2-3-1. Again, I am not disputing what head coach's line up was, he said it clearly, it was 4-4-2, but what happened in the real game was Ando in the first half was pretty even playing with Nekoonam. Second half things were different where Shojai was brought up to right mid and ando went to the center.

ok, thats ur opinion like i said, but atleast now we all know that, sometimes someone who reads books on tactics and has coached university teams can be wrong and a simple fan who hasnt done any of the above be right.

[Ali Chicago]

no, i didnt miss out on the word "extreme" that u used, but since i know this post was pointed at me (u have made similar arguments against me before and the fact that u have been making "indirect tanee's" recently made it clear it was towards me), i want to point out i dont use this "coach knows best excuse" to an extreme like u put it

....

Be Peer be Payghambar it wasn't aimed at you, or anyone specific for that matter. I thought I can use a concret example to make a point against an argument that is used in exterme form.When I wrote that post, it wasn't aimed at you. Don't know how I can prove it to you and if it was, I wouldn't have been afraid to say so. To be honest, I don't associate you with that motto of "a PRO coach knows best and every one who critricize it is unprofessional,....". I have been fiercely at times (Branko's peroformance) disagreed and aruged against your points. One more time, it wasn't at a specific person, it was criticizem of approch, a pardaigm, a style of thinking.

As for Abbasfard, I still beleive in what I said and I have no Keeneh against you or anyone else. It is an encounter of ideas. I told you I was wrong, when I was about 4-4-2. I would like to see a similar example.

Anyways, I am not here to make enemies, to be honest, if the experience in this comes to be so much drama and "I said this you said that", it kills the whole fun of it. If I want to say anything to you agha Yashar, I say it. I am not afraid of you barader. I stooed for what I beleived even when it cost me two bans by Mansoor, so I am not the one who backs off from what I beleive and side step things. So, If I didn't mention you, it wasn't meant at you. Now if you want to be paranoide and think I come here to tasfeesh khoordeh hesab with you "degar khood dani".

[Doctor DOOM]

I'm afraid we're going in circles here.

first of all I am amused to see how difficult it is for some of you to acknowledge the FACT that zareh isnt picked as the best player for LB post even in his own club, which says a lot.
I think it makes it indefensible if zareh is deemed unfit for LB position in a roster of 30 players, but we're supposed to digest in a pool of 100's of players, he suddenly is transformed into the best choice for it!
IT DEFIES ALL LOGIC AND SENSE.
at least shiri, alenemeh, asadi, shirzad, .... have all been tried ( and some still do play ) in that post and have shown good performances. not zareh!


secondly, if he's played N number of games at LB ( all at TM ) and has been exposed to int'l opponents does not answer the question of his performances.
yes, if daei had picked me for LB post or GK or ... at TM, I'd have had as many games under my belt and have been exposed to all those int'l opponents. but what does that answer about my performance?

here is the crux of the issue: we all have eyes. we all have seen the games.
we all have seen the CONSISTENT turn-overs, bad markings, falling behind, mistakes, mis-tackles, mis-timings, .... some games I even came up with the data to prove the point. I think we can believe our eyes rather than the rhetoric and "party-line" statements that have no basis behind them but the blind support for the .. well, "party-line"

I think for more answers on zareh, you can refer to a couple of older threads on left back position . I cant be repeating the same things . might as well just direct you to those threads.
your answers lie over there.

==============

let me remind you of a very recent incident and add it to the series of failures of this experiment.

if you remember near the end of the n korea game where the korean almost scored with a little chip over rahmati and we were all saved becoz it carried a few inches beyond the goal and landed on the net. that is the direct result of zareh failing ( as usual ) to mark his man, leaving him one-on-one with rahmati and allowing him such a dangerous moment.
I dont think many of you would even speak a word had that one gone in.
and that's just ONE example of many failings on part of zareh in that game , where suddenly 2 crosses and 1 shot has compelled ppl to close their eyes to series of (repeated) mistakes !!!

but then again, perhaps the "party-line" would have stayed the same with some other kinds of excuses.

[maij]

Majid jaan........................

You are just like Payman e khodemoon, !!
Just like him is with Zare and was with Branko !!,( Payman jaan forgive me ! ,as you two are different otherwise )
Likewise ,You are with ; "our Bezzaat ",and " People are not qualified to critisize " , " Be a good Loser " !
I love you both as fellow members here....but, both of you are stubborn to death, with your own Ideas !as it is " Harfe mard yekieh " ,and go so far to stick to your points !

Majid jaan,

You go ahead ,and live in your own " real world ", and , " Please ", allow us to live in ours' !,

Agha Bahram gol , I dearly wish you to live your life anyway you enjoy..nooshiy joonat. These discussion is not about changing ones beliefs or ideas or convert one to another party. We all have different views and what we do here is engage in arguments that is nothing but that.


I don't think I am stubborn , I merely stick to the points that I believe in unless I have evidence from others to change it. Beleive me , I have no ego or a chip of my shoulder.....Never claimed that I know better than anyone either.


As for the stats that you have published, you said that " no one has won more Asian Championship than Iran" , but what you published was the stats about " the Asian Cup" . Asian championships include many competitions including Youth teams (U19 and U17) and Women football. Iran is ranked a distant fourth.