Good Job By Branco !!

[P.Nima]

I personally dont think it was Branko's plan that made Iran perform like they did, it was simply thanks to our players induvidual performance. The player have no game plan to rely on, and that was proven in the second half were everything was falling apart. That means, without our few keyplayers, we will not perform well, and that is because there is no game plan.

Now that is what i think

[faraz]

I personally dont think it was Branko's plan that made Iran perform like they did, it was simply thanks to our players induvidual performance. The player have no game plan to rely on, and that was proven in the second half were everything was falling apart. That means, without our few keyplayers, we will not perform well, and that is because there is no game plan.
Now that is what i think

So whenever TM performs well, it's the players and whenever they don't, it's Branko Ivankovic.

Seems like a catch 22, doesn't it?

By the way, a "B team" is a "B team" for a reason! You can't expect the same level of performance from the B team as the A team!!! Obviously we performed subpar with our B-Team, but how is that not expected??? No team in the world can perform the same with their B-team (except maybe Brazil)

My god, the expectations are massive!

[P.Nima]

So whenever TM performs well, it's the players and whenever they don't, it's Branko Ivankovic.
Seems like a catch 22, doesn't it?
By the way, a "B team" is a "B team" for a reason! You can't expect the same level of performance from the B team as the A team!!! Obviously we performed subpar with our B-Team, but how is that not expected??? No team in the world can perform the same with their B-team (except maybe Brazil)
My god, the expectations are massive!

What i meant was, there is no plan, we have to rely on few keyplayers to manage to sometimes play decent football, and sometimes, the players are tired or not motivated enough to perform their best, like the Macedonia game, and the results are catastrofal. Its not Branko's fault weather we win or lose. Thats what i think.
And no i dont expect the B-team to play like the first team, what i mean is if(Khodanakarde) a Important player like Rezaei gets injured in World Cup, we will be doomed, we can forget about advancing to the next round, because there is no player that has as high standard as him and there is no gameplan from Branko's book that will cover the lack of defence.

[faraz]

And no i dont expect the B-team to play like the first team, what i mean is if(Khodanakarde) a Important player like Rezaei gets injured in World Cup, we will be doomed, we can forget about advancing to the next round, because there is no player that has as high standard as him and there is no gameplan from Branko's book that will cover the lack of defence.

This is not necessarily true. Although, obviously not having our key defenceman will be a problem, it will not dictate going to the next round or not because a football game has many other factors that will change the result. You know this, and I know this. Now, on the other hand, I believe the 3 players that are crucial to Iran are Hashemian, Kia, and Karimi. These are our superstars, and there is NO ONE in Iran that can do what these 3 do.

It is not Branko's part that Iran has not produced:

a) A good goalkeeper
b) A good reserve defenceman (although I'd take Nosrati or even Alavi)
c) A good reserve striker (Borhani is slowly moving up the ranks)

These are all entities that clubs have to nurture and provide. Branko must select the best possible cast from these clubs, and you can name any player in Iran right now - they are not as effective as karimi, kia or hash, end of discussion.

[Doctor DOOM]

so, faraz jan, could you plz explain why you mean by "playing well" in relation to this particular game?

is it the number "3" on the score-sheath that makes you say that?

was it .... oh , I cant think of anything else !

so for the sake of clarifying things, I'd like to know what I missed from this game that makes one say they played well.


==================

while "production" is not branko's fault, not seriously trying out some obvious choices IS his fault.

GK : insisting on mirza every game, so much that 2-3 months left to the WC, neither you , nor I , or even branko and his staff know who's mirza's alternative.
(*)

LB: a billion threads on this, and I see no need to repeat this .

LW : see above


-----
(*) just as karimi got injured recently ( and I wish him a speedy recovery , is it not possible that our players are NOT supermen and are prone to missing the games due to many things like injury ?
it is the coach's FAULT and obvious incompetence to have never tried to find the alternatives to the main players.
( reminds you of something? go back 6-7 months and you'd see many ppl discussin this issue, which branko had been neglecting - most probably becoz he is NOT "head" coach material ... but merely an assistant )

[faraz]

Peyman Jan, can you really formulate a good argument AGAINST TM's play in the first half? Seriously?

-we clearly dominated the proceedings
-we were almost always in the Costa Rica half
-our players seemed a lot more fluid, the passes were swift, and the one-touch game was used
-Zareh made some good runs down the left
-Hashemian's role was clearly devised by Branko to help the left side, and we looked pretty dangerous. One instant comes to mind when Zareh (the player that has been put down so harshly) ran down the left, the ball was dummied to him, he gave it to Hashemian who put in the FIRST TIME cross almost right on the head of DAEI. The attack started from the goalkeeper and was FLAWLESS, including one-touch combinations of Zandi, Zareh, Karimi.

In my books, the above points mean that we played well in the first half. The 2nd half we did not look good, and that is EXPECTED, as i've already mentioned.

Now, may I please hear your justification and reasoning for how TM played poorly? Leave the 2nd half out of it, we were obviously not as good. Let's talk about the 1st half.

[zzgloo]

After the game with costa rica, my personal evaluation of Branco is that :
.....
He presented a well organized game plan for the first half.
He managed a cohesive game with chamistry among players.
He Showed some new Ideas ( with New roles for golmo and Karimi )
He did what he was supposed to,as far as testing new players.
He won the game.
......
PLayers.....
Karimi is getting more dangerouse every day.
Hashemian showed his value.
Mirzapour still deserves the job.
Nosrati and zare are valuble players on defense.
Kabei may be slowing down alittle.
Zandi is yet to find his role.
Madanchi deserves more attention.
akbarpour,Jabari,navidkia are long way from ready.
Ali daei still can help.
More work is needed on bench.
Mahdavikia was greatly missed.
.....................
Over all, a passing grade for Branco, and talks against him show be abandaned till after the world cup.

DD jan, good to have some exchanges with you,although feels strange you and I be on opposite sides of an issue ...
I like to comment on my own post,as to clarify some points.
.......
Branko indeed presented a well organized plan on the first half....your points about deficiencies during first half is well taken,but :
have you seen the class of football our domestic teams play under ? have you seen such outburst of offense from any local teams ?have you seen such ease of movements ( during the first half ) from any club coach in Iran ?
If you recall, we easyly could have been 5-0 on the first half...and that was not LAOS or bangaladesh we played against....there were totaly outclassed,as the mexican media on thier newspaper ( EL UNIVERSAL ) pointed out !!........
Now, I am not suggesting to get carried away,and believe all is solved and everything is hanky panky....but what I am suggesting is, many people ( you and I included ) talked about the loss of touch by Branko,and it seemed he had lost his system he had during the asian games . But, by this game, Branko did show,that he has not lost it....
Ok, he still has work to do, granted, he still needs to find people,...but, do you realy think, you know the answer to unanswered questions ?, I personaly do not......
In case of mirzapour, he did try one golie, and perhaps he is going to try talebloo next.....( as that is how they should be tried, one game each )...but, I personaly think we will end up with mirzapour again.....we simply do not have the luxery of talents !!in that post....
same is true with daei.......
Karimi did have new role......he was more toward the right side as to compensate the absence of kia, he also played more one touch game,which was new...and indeed, he has evolved !!
On the left back....the lack of talent is worse than golei position...what can he do ?
On offense, madanchi was the best prospect in more than 10 tries among other prospects, as performance of akbarpour, navidkia,jabari, and even Borhani and kazemian,had failed,because of poor performances they displayed when given chances......
Why do you think, Branko insisted on getting more players from european clubs ?.....because, scoring and performing well in our league is just not good enough......Portugal's and mexico's defences are different than Shahid ghandi's......
You are right, as there is lot more to be done.....but with, our limited time, and the availeble personel,and difficulties of Islamic system, ....Branko is in a right path....he will defenetly improve more till the WC time, especialy if he gets more support !!! !!!!

[Doctor DOOM]

I’m going to address both faraz jan’s and zz jan’s posts …. And will try to make it as short as possible:

1- before we talk about “domination” we must take a look at the quality of the opposition.

2- fluid passing?
Most of what I saw was nutral passes, and the few positive ones were the already-mentioned long lobs , which took out the midfield

3- now was this the plan?
To take out the midfield, with long lobs?
If you call this misery a “plan” , then my friends, you are really belittling our football !

Or as I had said earlier ( a couple of pages back ) was obliterating our left and right flanks this “plan” that we’re supposed to admire?

A coach who neglect such basic facts in football shd go back and start his education all over again.

4- zareh did RUN up and down.
But, again, I must REPEAT (!!??!!? ) , what did come off these?
Waste of energy. Opening up spaces on the left. Nothing really worthy of mentioning.
If it is about mere “running” up and down, and the quality is overlooked, …. Hell , what was wrong with badavi then?
At least badavi is faster.

5- VH’s condemnation to the left, was borne out of the incompetence of “never learning from past”, and keeping a midfielder on the left who goes A.W.O.L. all the time, thus leaving the left to one sub-par ( right sided ) player who just runs up and down, with no quality in the end !!
so to cover for such incompetence , VH had to pull away from the CORRECT zone for his talents, to the left to add to the lacking numbers on the left!

6- karimi on the right, for kia?
Then what was teymoorian ?
Na agha …. Teymoorian was playing in kia’s post.
( for more, refer to my earlier post )


7- and finally assuming this first 30-35 minutes of the first half was what we shd zoom in on ( apart from so many defects , even during this period ) …. Is football a 30 minute game?
I am no coach or don’t claim to be even close to one … but according to my miniscule knowledge, a football game is 90 minutes.

……… or was this, also , a “plan” ?


basically all this was already mentioned in my first post on this subject.


I’m actually quite amused how much we twist and bend to create excuse after excuse for branko’s incompetence !
I bet if he takes a gun and shoots down 2-3 ppl, some of us will come up with all sorts of excuses , ranging from dick cheney fad to fans asking for it, to AN’s nuclear ambitions to ….. !!!

You step out, a lot of water is coming down from the skies !
Instead of accepting it is raining, we go to lengths like someone must be pissing from an over-passing plane, or this is moon sweating, or ….. !!


But then again, this is a personal matter.
Each person has his own measuring sticks and expectations.
I, personally didn’t see anything more than a miniscule effort in some areas, while some MAJOR areas like ( LB, L-Mid, GK, Tactics, Player selection, Arrangement and wrong-player in wrong post, … ) STILL EXIST AND ARE REPEATED !

So shd I applaud the persistence of these failures?

I don’t think so.

[Mr.Good]

Maybe Mr. DD need to read about football a little bit before typing his books of :bs: and calling the coach a wimp or coward.

Zareh is playing LB as good as Kaebi plays RB in TM. he just needs to improve his crossing skills with his left. The problems Badavi had if you remember (or noticed) was his defence skills mainly.

Vahid did nothing wrong in the game. one of the duties of modern 4-4-2 is going to the wing and crossing the ball. learn about the duties of each player and the different tactical variations of each formation before you condem the coach of stupidity.

[Doctor DOOM]

Maybe Mr. DD need to read about football a little bit before typing his books of :bs: and calling the coach a wimp or coward.
Zareh is playing LB as good as Kaebi plays RB in TM. he just needs to improve his crossing skills with his left. The problems Badavi had if you remember (or noticed) was his defence skills mainly.
Vahid did nothing wrong in the game. one of the duties of modern 4-4-2 is going to the wing and crossing the ball. learn about the duties of each player and the different tactical variations of each formation before you condem the coach of stupidity.

and before I read those football books, maybe Mr. good could brish up on his english.

maybe then, he'd know what was said about VH's condemnation to the left and if at all I said he did something wrong !!!

------------

and it IS a sign of incompetence to stick with a failing left flank, again and again ... while we have a great player like Mani'ee who is
in top of his form,
with a bundle of assists and some more goals,
young,
energetic and fast ,
and skillful with the ball.

now, lets all get together and say "the moon is sweating" or "some alien is taking a major piss"...... instead of saying "it's raining" simply !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RaginG Inferno]

"the moon is sweating" or "some alien is taking a major piss"...... instead of saying "it's raining" simply !!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was brutal! Some subtlety would be nice!

Anyway, I am pleased with how we played in the first half. I am confident when the World Cup comes, you will be changing your avatar, as per our bet.

[zzgloo]

That was brutal! Some subtlety would be nice!
Anyway, I am pleased with how we played in the first half. I am confident when the World Cup comes, you will be changing your avatar, as per our bet.

Doctor Doom has not turned his back to the TM, in fact there are very few members here who care about TM as much as DD does.....and in my opinion we all should have the audacity to see different opinions, specialy when it comes from members such as DD,with more football spirit and more football knowledge , and more love for Iran than most.
Branding people,is not the way to convince others....logical dialoge is.

[Mr.Good]

and before I read those football books, maybe Mr. good could brish up on his english.

maybe then, he'd know what was said about VH's condemnation to the left and if at all I said he did something wrong !!!

------------
now, lets all get together and say "the moon is sweating" or "some alien is taking a major piss"...... instead of saying "it's raining" simply !!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK I will BRISH up on my english.

All What I said is that Vahid was performing his duties as part of 4-4-2 system. He was not condemed to the left as you put it. Its part of his duties as a stricker to support the upper on third of the flank. Now if you agree on this we can disscuss other subjects like the left mid or the LB.

Otherwise if you cowardly want to change the subject all the time, then this disscussion will go nowhere.

[faraz]

logical dialoge is.

ZZ Jan, i have given up when it comes to logical dialogue...oh boy

I used to be much more active in this forum, but there's a part of me who knows that no matter how much I write and how much I explain, and how much I do this and that (as many others have done), this "logical dialogue" somewhat gets lost somewhere by the time DD reads it. It is no longer about him listening - he'll just push his personal agenda in every single thread. I could open a thread about nooneh-barbaree, panireh Irani, and Chaie, but it'll suddenly become a conversation about Branko.

Failing to see that we played a GOOD game in the first half is turning a blind eye and being stubborn. Accept it, don't accept it, I really don't care anymore.

just my 2 cents.

[Doctor DOOM]

dear mr good, I doubt you'd want to get into a spelling contest here.

a little look at the keyboard shows you which letters are close to each other and if you try to type fast, you're bound to make mistakes.
and it's quite childish to pick on "brish" ( brush ) when we have not recognized our "strickers" ( strikers ) roles !



-----------------

thank you zz jan.
I agree with you on being open to differing views on such a simple matter as a football game.
I guess we all shd have this capacity.

--------------

dear faraz , are we talking about "listening" as in "listen and learn" ?
or just "hearing" the other's view?

coz I, also can write the exact ; "I used to be much more active in this forum, but there's a part of me who knows that no matter how much I write and how much I explain, and how much I do this and that (as many others have done), this "logical dialogue" somewhat gets lost somewhere by the time DD reads it. It is no longer about him listening - he'll just push his personal agenda in every single thread." .... bit and all I have to do is change "DD" to "X" or "Y" or ... .
fits perfectly too.
shall I ?

I try to explain WHY I say I am not happy with the team, and ENUMERATE different factors and POINTS supporting my argument.

but there are ppl who just say, "I'm happy with this or that".
-"why?"
-"just becoz I am !!!!!!!!"
-"but what did u see to make you happy with the team? what in these tactics or formation or .... . anything SPECIFIC ?"
-"ummmmmm....... shut up. you're anti-TM !" !