UAE - IRAN game

[BehzadB]

Just go back a few threads and see how many people criticized Daei , including the Doc himself , when Mahdavikia was left out from the team ????

I don't know about Doc or anyone else, but for me, leaving Kia out wasn't the problem. Daie's reasoning for doing so, was. When Kia was excluded, All Daie said was, "kia be taktikeh ma nemikhoreh". Nothing more, nothing less. He said it was tactical. I said it was a 'beef'.

and when he called Kia back (one game later) all he said was, "kia bazikoneh bozorgieh va mitooneh be ma komak k0neh"... there is contradiction written all over those two statements. and this decision actually reassured me that I was right about my suspicion.



and looking at this game today (which wasn't much worse than our other games) it was easy for amature eyes like mine to see our "tactics" aren't so "tactical" that they could possibly be affected by Kia's inclusion or exclusion. We are simply not good enough to be affected in a tactical sense by kia's presence or his absence, .

If Daie wants to sit Kia, Hashemian, Bagheri, and all the over or near the 30 players out, i am all for it. but the last player he added to TM is a 35 year old Bagheri who actually, imo, has weakened the center field of our team tremendously, and the fact that Bagheri scored a goal toady or that he will score more in future games, doesn't change that fact.

[yashar_fasihnia]

i too agree that bagheri was the weakest link in our midfield and there was a huge void in our midfield and lack of ball distribution in the field because bagheri wasnt very mobile which is expectable because of his age.

in perspolis, the other 4 midfielders do most of the running and movement in the midfield (zareh, nouri, petrovich, karimi) which reduces the load on bagheri. he doesnt have to come back all the way to midfield to receive the ball and then carry it forward. he is mostly the type of guy who will place himself near the goal or around the penalty area, or wait for the balls to be passed to him and he pass it on.

but because iran plays 4-4-2 which limits the number of midfielders in the team and pulls back bagheri one line compared to perspolis, so it was more the role of bagheri to come close to nekounam or the 2 side midfielders, receive passes and then carry it forward and spread it to the 2 forwards infront of him. i think he wasnt capable of doing this, in neither the qatar game nor the UAE game.

i hope now that daei has invited back bagheri to TM, he will not have a problem leaving him aside (if needed, which i think is very much needed if jabbari and/or navidkia are ready for the february game against korea) and the media and critics will allow him to do so.

[maij]

majid jan, I am the first guy to say kia played very poorly.
but that doesnt make him a bad choice for TM. far from it.

if we have to go by only ONE game and only this game, then not only kia, but also nekounam, rezaei, shojaei, kaabi, hosseini, VH, .... shd be dropped.
will you agree?

Very good point , Peyman jan...... Then the problem is that expectations are high and some of your best sometimes do not deliver.....

It was not only Bagheri that was poor , I was even more disappointed with Nekounam- Shojaei axis that I personally had a lot of hope for.

In my view from the tactical point , Dominique Batheney outsmarted Daei in the first half. Despite the analysis of UAE team , Daei failed to see where the real threats from UAE team will come from. The difference was between a young energetic team of UAE with lots of running and a pivotal player like Isamel Matter , and a team that was far too slow to react both in defense and offense.

There was lots of good balls towards the forward line , but Hash was too inept to use it to his full advantage , while Rezaei was in a role of a winger , spreading each attach diagonally rather then forward.

Anyway , we can all have different views on the game, suffice to say that this poor performance was a collective result of the whole team including the coaching staff. We can't fool ourselves. This performance needs major upheaval.

Kia proved his worth in the previous game.
he had a bad game, much like every other fixed player in this game ( except rahmati ). and lets face it. he isnt exactly like zareh , who is extremely consistent in his poor performances. I would be fair and let kia play a couple of more games. if by then, he hasnt bounced back, then I'd be the first person to ask for his replacement.

Then you agree that KIA is NOT consistent. There is a lot that is against Kia's inclusion in the team and like Bagheri , he scored in a opportunist situation ( which we are all thankful for) but in the longer run , he is not the solution.

and btw, what exactly did you see from gholamnejad anyway, to make that comparison comment?
he was absolutely average.
nothing to talk about that performance.

Alot , my friend .....a lot.

He is younger , more skillful , very god control of the ball , his positioning is outstanding , not afraid to tackle , and gets involved in challenges without fear , use of empty space and has sheer energy. This also applies to Madanchi. The biggest difference is experience. This you cannot buy , it comes with years of playing high level football that the likes of Gholamnejad and Madanchi simply do not have tat this stage.

Saying this , it does not mean Kia is a spent force. It is up to the coach to decide when he needs Lia's attributes rather than Gholamnejad against which team and what tactics, and that , I am afraid was not discovered early by Daei. But I suppose it is better late or never.

It is one thing to talk about issues in advance of that event happening, like predicting matters.
but it is something else to say things in hindsight and post-event about the issues of that event.

nobody expected such a poor display from the likes of kia, nekounam or kaabi or ... .
so here, Daei is forgiven for counting on these guys and starting with them.

but days before it was apparent that playing shojaei on the left when you have madanchi, who plays his football against the very same opponents, weekly, is quite foolish.
not only that, but also the fact that it restricts shojaei's efficiency.
or the matter of VH vs. Salehi, based on what we've seen from VH in the past year or more.
or zareh's continuing miserable showings.
these issues were predicted way before the game. so my comments are not in hindsight, but mere predictions of what we'd most probably see. just putting 2 and 2 together.

Like always , Peyman Jan...you keep reminding us of the IF sitiuations. IF shojae played on the lefte , or IF that......I honestly don't know how you think that such things effect the outcome of the match and good luck to you in your thoughts...I don't subscribe to such scenarios.....Surely , the coach would have though of such changes ..hell , it is not like you discoverd the theory of relativity.....If it has NOT happened , then there were other factors that the coaches have found which did not suite the team.


One player or two , will not affect the overall performance of a team. Well , let us say not on regular basis. You said it yourself , all the players , except Rahmati were not up to scratch, so why Shojaei on the right would have made such impact , makes me even wonder if you really mean it.

Saying that , Shojaei and Nekounam MUSt has suffered from fatigue and that surely affected their performance.

[maij]

I don't know about Doc or anyone else, but for me, leaving Kia out wasn't the problem. Daie's reasoning for doing so, was. When Kia was excluded, All Daie said was, "kia be taktikeh ma nemikhoreh". Nothing more, nothing less. He said it was tactical. I said it was a 'beef'.

and when he called Kia back (one game later) all he said was, "kia bazikoneh bozorgieh va mitooneh be ma komak k0neh"... there is contradiction written all over those two statements. and this decision actually reassured me that I was right about my suspicion.

Welcome to the real world of professional football.

I don't know why coaches have to reveal everything in their heart or mind to you of the oppositions, but ...in the real world they don't. As much as you do not reveal everything even to the closest person to you.

and looking at this game today (which wasn't much worse than our other games) it was easy for amature eyes like mine to see our "tactics" aren't so "tactical" that they could possibly be affected by Kia's inclusion or exclusion. We are simply not good enough to be affected in a tactical sense by kia's presence or his absence, .

If Daie wants to sit Kia, Hashemian, Bagheri, and all the over or near the 30 players out, i am all for it. but the last player he added to TM is a 35 year old Bagheri who actually, imo, has weakened the center field of our team tremendously, and the fact that Bagheri scored a goal toady or that he will score more in future games, doesn't change that fact.

Well, that is exactly my points or "My preaching " like some friends like to put it here. Football is simple game , but not as simple as putting this player here and there , and BOOM...you have a winner.

There are far too many factors , complications and situations that are beyond the comprehension of the average fan , and sometimes even the coaches and players themselves , hence their bad results. In this games and from you own amateur's eyes , I think Daei's team was outsmarted and outrun by a younger opposition with lots of energy and resolve. Simply , in the first half , Daei had no answer for it.

[Doctor DOOM]

Daei should have never used Hashemian, Kia, Bagheri (3 slow oldies) against the fast tempo UAE team. It's just suicide.
They exploited our weakness amazingly.

now, with due respect, this is a prime example of speaking in hindsight.
bagheri may have been up for argument, but I didnt see anyone criticizing daei for using kia and VH PRIOR to the game.



and yashar came up with a pretty good explanation of why bagheri shines at IPL and how it is not translated at TM.
becoz all the mids around him, take care of most of the running and hustling that he wouldnt be bothered about.
good observation, yashar.

[zzgloo]

The responsibility , is solely upon the head coaching staff .......the fact that ,all players collectively played bad, is the direct indication, that the fault lies on the coaching alone !!!
.................................................. .................................................. .
lets look at what the coaching staff did not do :
.................................................. ..................................................

1- As Mr.Molkala also mentioned, the TM players were not prepared for specific style of UAE players...( perhaps job of mr.Afazeli )

2-TM used far too many players whom had just joined the TM in the last days.

3-TM has been unable to show any cohesiveness,game plan,startegy,tactics,etc.....( not just in this game )

4-TM has been unable to show pre-worked out offensive strategies . ( Not just in this game )

5- Contrary to what proponanats of domestic coach for TM believed, the coaching staff has not been able to motivate the players !

6-While coaching staff has declaring " shayesteh salari ", but, it is going after Branko's plan of " names " only !!

7-Most importantly, it appears,the coaching staff,has been unable to convince the players in its abilities, and players have not bought into his styel !( if there is any )

.................................................. .................................................. .

The conclusion :, There is more to running a national team with WC aspirations, than just player selection, and there is more into haveing players play well,than just selecting them !!!...............................

.................................................. .................................................. ..............................

PS;....If we the fans, see this about Daei, what do players, in thier private ,think about him !?....and is that healthy ?
It is still, very much possible to qualify for the WC finals in the south Africa,thanks to reletively high class of our football in Asia...........but, we promised ourseleves differently when were getting eliminated from the last WC......and " Daei ", was not what we had in mind !.........................he has been given enough chances, and by now, every body know what he is capable of, and what he is not !!

[Doctor DOOM]

Then you agree that KIA is NOT consistent. There is a lot that is against Kia's inclusion in the team and like Bagheri , he scored in a opportunist situation ( which we are all thankful for) but in the longer run , he is not the solution.

No, I dont agree. becoz kia's last game was not only about him scoring. he PLAYED WELL. and THAT is the key element we shd take out of it.
bagheri didnt play well.
the 2 situations are totally different.

Alot , my friend .....a lot.

He is younger , more skillful , very god control of the ball , his positioning is outstanding , not afraid to tackle , and gets involved in challenges without fear , use of empty space and has sheer energy.

I dont know what positioning you are talking about, coz he has shown plenty of wrong positionings and wrong decisions in those few TM games he's played.
starting with the kuwait game and then ( if I remember correctly, ) the uae game with losing his mark, who scored, and .... etc etc etc.

a visit to the threads on those games will refresh your views on his positioning and skills.

Like always , Peyman Jan...you keep reminding us of the IF sitiuations. IF shojae played on the lefte , or IF that......I honestly don't know how you think that such things effect the outcome of the match and good luck to you in your thoughts...I don't subscribe to such scenarios.....Surely , the coach would have though of such changes ..hell , it is not like you discoverd the theory of relativity.....If it has NOT happened , then there were other factors that the coaches have found which did not suite the team.


One player or two , will not affect the overall performance of a team. Well , let us say not on regular basis. You said it yourself , all the players , except Rahmati were not up to scratch, so why Shojaei on the right would have made such impact , makes me even wonder if you really mean it.

Saying that , Shojaei and Nekounam MUSt has suffered from fatigue and that surely affected their performance.

well, those are not "what if" situations.
those are situations that logic dictated and were discussed PRIOR to the event.
you cant say it's wrong to say "IF we add 2 to 2 ...."
we KNOW it is going to end up at 4.
we dont have to wait for the calculator to give us the answer.

there are some things that are apparent way before they happen.
these are the same kind.
coz the alternative is me having a crystal ball that looks into the future!

[Doctor DOOM]

Well, that is exactly my points or "My preaching " like some friends like to put it here. Football is simple game , but not as simple as putting this player here and there , and BOOM...you have a winner.

......

but there is truth and logic to saying if we use the RIGHT kind of players in the right kind of posts, then "BOOM",..... you'll have a FAR GREATER CHANCE AT SUCCESS than just putting "names" in or using the wrong players for wrong posts.

[Doctor DOOM]

anyway, it's not as if we're eliminated.
lets not get depressed or anything.
we're behind by 2 points only and we still have 5 games to make it up.

the most important thing is for us ( actually daei ) to learn from our mistakes and try to rectify them.
lajbaazi and persistence on "our word & belief" , when it's taken to an extreme, will always end up adversely.

first we ( daei ) shd acknowledge the mistakes and wrongs. then accept the need to change them to positives.
and then, with enough flexibility, wisdom and an open mind, we shd go about fixing them.

[Martin-Reza]

we're behind by 2 points only and we still have 5 games to make it up.

Actually we are 1 point in front and still have 5 games to defend that.

[BehzadB]

Welcome to the real world of professional football.

I don't know why coaches have to reveal everything in their heart or mind to you of the oppositions, but ...in the real world they don't. As much as you do not reveal everything even to the closest person to you.

???

So are you saying that you now agree that there was more to it than just "Kia be taktikeh ma nemikhoreh"?

because I remember that's what I was saying during our discussion on the matter, and now you tell me that in a Professional world, coaches don't have to tell us fans everything!! Which makes it sound that you too believe there was more to it than what daie had let out.

on a side note, when they say professional coaches don't have to tell everything to everyone, they were not talking about leaving out team's captain. this is not a personal or private matter. It's a national team matter and the team (and all of it's matters) belong to the public. It's not like Daie had to explain his private life or business.

I, contrary to your belief, think that a professional coach has nothing to hide except his team's specific tactics, OR, a 'hashieh' that is best kept out of the media. other than those two cases, everything else should be open for discussion and a professional coach should be able and willing to talk about them all..

[Hadi]

Docotr joon, I respect your effort for discussing and analyzing this match. Baba eyvalla.

Ma ke Enghad Hers Khordim, Aslan Hoseleye Sohbat Rajebe Bazio Nadarim.

deep down, I just want to forget the whole match as quickly as possible

[zzgloo]

We keep barely getting passing grades...................
We keep giveing the benefit of the doubt...........................
We keep ingoring the signs that tell us we are going the wrong way.......

I wonder, if the players also would give Daei the benefit of the doubt....
I wonder,what do players in thier private think of thier coach's abilities......?
And where all these conformisms end ?

[Martin-Reza]

^ We had one bad game, no need to overreact. The team amazingly improved after the first few games under Daei and since his debut we are unbeaten.

I agree the game was horrible, but the games before that were not, so claiming this is now a new "downward" tendency is a premature assumption.

[maij]

???

So are you saying that you now agree that there was more to it than just "Kia be taktikeh ma nemikhoreh"?

My eye sight is not as good as it used to be , nor is my memory , but hey ....I have not lost it completely yet....Where did I say or agree with you ..... Cuz if I did , I want to correct myself.

???

on a side note, when they say professional coaches don't have to tell everything to everyone, they were not talking about leaving out team's captain. this is not a personal or private matter. It's a national team matter and the team (and all of it's matters) belong to the public. It's not like Daie had to explain his private life or business.

National team matters are NOT exactly discussed in the corridors of PFDC!!

Then again , you are entitled to set your own rules , it is not necessarily what the reality is.

I, contrary to your belief, think that a professional coach has nothing to hide except his team's specific tactics, OR, a 'hashieh' that is best kept out of the media. other than those two cases, everything else should be open for discussion and a professional coach should be able and willing to talk about them all..

I am not a professional coach , nor I do I have a set of hard rules from any text box of football to say "what should the coach reveal and what should he hide."

I am merely stating that coaches normally do not reveal everything in public. This is my impression talking to many coaches of clubs and national teams NOT only TM coaches.