Who is worse than animal Mr. Ghotbi? (An open letter to a fake emperor)

[Paradigm]

For me the part where he celebrated Iran's elimination in AC '07 at the hands of South Korea, is still the part that hurts the most.

[Ali Chicago]

Part one: Respond to Ali Agha in regard to the matters he took personal
Well, Ali Agha, I am sort of glad your brought this up:
May I ask if this isn’t something you have constantly done to Ala? Are you criticizing me above or your own persistant act. Do you “show your own strips when you hear about a different opinion than yours” from Ala. Bias? Fair? Sarcasm? You be the judge ...

I was away for the thanksgiving and just saw the posts on this thread. I stand by every word of I what I wrote about Ala's posts and take that to any court of law. I wasn't responsible for 9 million contract but ran my own business and know a thing or two about how to deal with a different point of view.


Before you judge me based on my reactions to Ala's posts, go and see how majority of members feel about Ala's posts. When posts are full of lies, twisting the facts, baseless claims, ridiculing the TM's head coach and certain players who Ala deemed not suitable . Ala's posts except a few people who thinks like him are literally facing redicule by majority of members in the PFDC. Despite all that and your claim and my fundemental difference with Ala, I kept a civilized dialogue throught the almost 4 years I have been a PFDC members. Despite your claim about my position toward Ala which at best is selectively chosen by your to misrepresent my four years post back and forth with Ala, Please go and look and see how many times, I repped Ala? Despite his well known bias is his posts whenever in my opinion I found anythign positive, I went and repped him. Are you considering that when you come here and make a claim like that (in regard to my interaction with Ala)? You made the same mistake in this latest post that you did in regards to the so called open letter to Ghotbi. Picked a handful of facts that fit your overall view and build and expanded on it. Your point of view about my interaction with Ala suffers from the same short coming. How do you explain when I repped Ala? I repped Ala not yesterday before posting this post, records are available on PFDC Despite my difference whenever I found his posts useful (despite my deep disagreements with certain methods of him), I repped him.

Ala was rejected for membership in F+, why? It is not what I say vs. what you say. There are other people here and see the events and judge. Last poll for the MOM how many votes he got from F+ members? That is the Ala from other people's point of view. It seems u see a different Ala. Reminds me of the quote "Bad for theory, if it doesn't agree with someone's theory". Ala twists, manipulates outright post lies (recently he has become better). That is why it is not me, majority of mature people on PFDC have seen and commented about his posts. Despite all of this I maintained a respectable dialogue with him. Ala and I have been at it for 4 years almost, If you want to go and pick one and two interaction, and misrepresnt my attitude in PFDC, that is a different story. Again, I ask you, if I am so disrespctful how did I repp him a few times?


The whole Trader and Traitor comment wasn't at Ala and is an example of how you take something out of context and draw certain conclusions from it. That was a funny post in part due to lack of mastery in English. If you want to misrepresent it as you did at the time, be my guest. It was a simple play on words, you took it out of context, or maybe because it is text without seeing the person's body langague it was perceived differently. I found it amazing that you don't mind, Siavash call an Iranian a "TRAITOR". You don't seem an issue with that, but are so sensetive toward me calling the play on the word. Another great example of your "DOUBLE STANDARD". You ran with it pretty good and I tried to not say anything.

I personally got banned twice by you under the pretext and I am walking a tight line even in this thread. I post long posts, at times I am guilty of not proof reading at times ( I am not getting paid for my work in journalism, I am a software engineer so I lack certain habits, but you rediculed me and I chose to ignor it).
Read your post above and see how many typo is there. I didn't call u on that, and tried to redicule you!!!? Did I? . At times you used dark sarcasem and I ignored your comements again. I had no choice. You banned me twice, after all u have the power, this time I again respectfually asked you to stop it.

There is a saying that goes tell me who is your friend till I say who are you. If Ala is your friend and u feel so bad about the way he get treated (due to the methods he uses on PFDC), that tells something about you, i believe as well.

Speaking of Ala, he promotes certain line with your implicit/explicit support. No one else would have dared to print outright lies and insults that Ala did to GN, Khatibi, Enayati, posting fake interview by Hashemian (before the most important game of Iran in AFC 2007) from Iranian papers in PFDC and manouvering on it without 10s of bans. But with your direct or indirect support he continued his slandering campaign against certrain people. When you are called on this, you use the alibi of interfereing with the staff affair and ban people (yours truly is an example). Judge and prosecution in this case is the same (you). It is as if, I go to a judge and say certain police officer I think isn't fair. Judge and police officer in this case are the same person and then judge/i.e. same police officer who I have a gripe about punishes me for interference!!!!! Even if I am in an apparent argument against X or Y in staff, at least on the surface Z (from staff) should ban me, not the same person I am in disagreement with (in this case you). At least to save face that there is impartiality, you should Yashar or some one else ban me. Yours truly was victim of bans twice by you,so was Kaz. Ala was in this argument in yet another Branko thread with Kaz and who got banned Kaz. What happened to Ala? Nothing? You know Agha Mansoor, god bless you and and Ala and be payee ham peer sheeen.

Your open letter was analyzed not just be me, by many other respected members and was called for what it was? What kind of open letter is it, if I go somewhere on the net, accuse you of X, Y, Z without even letting the accused now about my claims and accusations? Without me allowing him to come to that site or in papers and respond? In journalisem, it is a custom, if one prints a news about something, that organization or person's reply needs to be printed at the same size and same location in the paper or publication. Did you mail the open letter to Ghotbi? Did you allow Ghotbi to interview to respond to your accsations? Stop the sherade brother. Your posts on PFDC and open threat couple of months ago about people who diagree with your point of veiw about Ghotbi, plus other articles on Zendegi football leaves no doubt about your bias toward Ghotbi. You hate Ghotbi or whatever it is your right, please call it for what it is, don't act as if you are a neutral observer? Iran for sure has 1000000 delsooz and everyone claims, he/she only does things for Iran's sake. It is time we express ourselves and our opionion without using the pretext of "our criticizem is because we care more about Iran than the next guy". Who is the judge? How is that decided?


Fianlly I challenge you to put a poll about my manners on PFDC and see what general PFDC members think about me? To see the validity of your claim about my behavior and how I respect people on the PFDC. Let's see what PFDC members think about your verdict of about my manners on PFDC. Only a small subset of people who follow on a certain agenda (who are in absoulute minority) agree with your assertion. You over and over insulted me with word like "lack of understanding", "can't read" etc. That shows your class and I let members be the judge!!!!.


PFDC for me was a venue to come and talk football . The sport that I have played, watched, coached for more than 30ish years. Lately it has come to the point, I feel I need to consult a lawyer before posting. I am not attorny general to defened other people when they get mistreated by you. But see how people from a different point of view gets treated by you. Your post in the sister thread and how you treated and responded to Gol Kouchik is the latest example. Also please see your posts in regards to Hadi (Very interesting use of "Agha Hadi" when in the past he thought differently and inline with what you thought was the right thing Daie/Branko before WC2006.

Life as it is, is full of challenges. PFDC for more than 95% of the time has been a source of education and dialgoue for me. I learned a few things made friends here. Recently, I see a strong sense of partisanship and attempt to promote certain point of view, while there is an active attempt to discredit the opposite point of view. Day by day I feel, certain points of view are promoted and opposite point of view being discouraged by you. If this is what you want (that your point of veiw being promoted without any different point of view), You have a huge role in this site, please let me know, if you find my posts undesirable and I will glady won't post anymore and leave PFDC.

[Hadi]

For me the part where he celebrated Iran's elimination in AC '07 at the hands of South Korea, is still the part that hurts the most.

for me, that part is the most irrelevant part of the whole thing.

He was among the Korea coaching staff. If he had not celebrated defeating Iran, I would have questioned his sanity.

[BehzadB]

Before someone passes such comment on my credentials and professional career , it only prudent for that person to at least know me and know something about my professional career , else such comment is slanderous defamatory and downright insulting and not to mention that such comment does not belong to a forum where supposedly informed adults and mature people exchange ideas and discussion.

Aghaye Panahi,

with all due respect shoma khoob rozeh mikhoonee, ama khodet geryat nemigireh..
comments like that are all good and nice, but you only want them applied to you and your beloved certain someone(s). It is ironic that you make that comment on this thread after going on and on with your character assassinations and accusation without a shred of evidence.

You Mr. Behzad , acted as such and without any prior knowledge of my background , falsely and ignorantly suggested that I have no idea what a contract is!

For your information , the last big CONTRACT I was in charge of was worth US$ 9,549,578.06 to be exact , prepared by me , approved by the legal dept. , cleared by Internal Audit , counter signed by yours truly, counter signed by the CEO and signed by the Chairman of the board.

I think after such ignorant comment from you , it is useless to continue any meaningful discussion....

First of all, if you bother to read the post first, I said “ YOU SOUND LIKE someone that has no idea what a contract means”, since you are so versed an experienced in drawing contracts you should have paid a little attention to that.

Second , I don't care if you draw 100 billion dollar contract. when you say things like : “For all those who think of Ghotbi as an angel , here is an interesting piece to expose the man” referring to a report by ISNA on Ghotbi's contract and how it was favoring ghotbi, and then you follow it up by saying: “.. a man who manipulated the system so cleverly by getting maximum financial advantage.....” , it makes me think that maybe you didn’t know that contracts have to be signed and accepted by TWO parties, and if one side was able to get what he wants , that doesn’t necessarily make him a bad guy, just a smart one.

but now that I know you know about contracts then that makes me think that your earlier comments were all based on ulterior motive..

I think after such ignorant comment from you , it is useless to continue any meaningful discussion....

Sensitive Iranians.. how dare someone questions my knowledge and abilities!!

whatever rocks your boat agha majid, I don't have a guilty feeling.

[Doctor DOOM]

For me the part where he celebrated Iran's elimination in AC '07 at the hands of South Korea, is still the part that hurts the most.

on the surface of it, it does sadden a person. but then , when we enter the professional world, we should separate emotions from our duties.
he was hired by the koreans, his salary was paid by koreans and he was a part of the korean set up. it is only professional to see him want their success.

personally, I've never given a damn about him cheering or celebrating the korean victory. that never bothered me. what bothered me about him was his lack of qualifications to be a TM candidate.


================

btw, this ghotbi issue brings up the old saying many of us repeated again & again a year ago when some friends were endowing him the imperial status of "emperor".
there IS truth to the saying: the higher you go, the harder you fall

let us learn from all this and be more moderate in our stances on issues, coz it'll be a matter of time before we're proven otherwise with a huge pie on our face. ( hint towards other current issues )


================

and finally, I must say I've seen some cleavings and polarizing topics in pfdc in these years ( like pro & anti branko, pro & anti daei. pro & anti GN, ss vs. pp, .... ). but this one if really cleaving the board right down the middle.
very interesting.

[Ali Chicago]

For me the part where he celebrated Iran's elimination in AC '07 at the hands of South Korea, is still the part that hurts the most.

I didn't like that either. I wish he was smarter than that and understand the impact of his actions in the long term. Having said that, if I want to judge his performance I can't let that one episode bias my analysis of his coaching performance. One can be a tactless and super emotional and still can perform well in footballing manners. Please see my posts back when Ghotbi started to be called Emperor(how criticial I was and even made a couple of sarcatic remarks about it). So the issue isn't I am a hard core Ghotbi fan. All I am saying is Ghotbi was a mixed bag of good and bad. If one tries to paint him only in light of his negative attributes, I would point out, it will be unfair. This doesn't mean, I beleive Ghotbi was a saint and didn't do anything wrong.

[Ali Chicago]

While I am not in favor of Ghotbi's behavior toward the end of his contract in PP, in order to put things in prospect and find the root cause, I would like to point out a few names and root cause of the problem not the symptom.

Luca Bonacic left Sephan without paying a dime while his contract wasn't finished. So did Engin Firat and the Zhirandro Veeiera the Brazilian guy. They all left without paying a dime back to Sepahan.

PP was the worst example of the spending (read wasting money) when dealing with foriegners. List includes both coaches and players. Arrie Haan, Theo Dejoung, Schmit and now Ghotbi among coaches. Players list is even worst. Rafaal, Nikolefeski, Aranda, Di Carmo, Atsu.

Saipa case with both Litbarski and the other German coach who left two seasons ago (forgot his name) that later Daie took over.

The root cause all of this is unprofessional management of our clubs (which in turn is due to the stupid people who run our conutry now). All these clubs need to do is to hire a few lawyers even temporary, so they write the contract the way that these foriegners can't shove it to us so good. Root cause is the contracts are written by people who aren't a professional lawyers in order to preserve our rights.


IRI leadership is destroying our country and our sports isn't an exception.
This post is by no means to justify Ghotbi's unprofessional behavior to leave the PP club btw.

[maij]

for me, that part is the most irrelevant part of the whole thing.

He was among the Korea coaching staff. If he had not celebrated defeating Iran, I would have questioned his sanity.

In my book, such behavior distinguishes the value of people when it comes to integrity and ethics.


Podolski subdued his emotion and curtailed his celebration, when he scored against his ancestor land Poland while playing for Germany, his country of birth.

Podolski is amongst hundreds of other players or coaches before him , who have acted in similar manner as a sign of respect to their ex-clubs or country. Don’t go very far , our own Saeed Lotfi of Paykan who played many years in the league for Esteghal before transferring back to Paykan this season , made a similar gesture and did not celebrate when he scored against his old club, Esteghlal.

Yes…one must have loyalty for the paymaster, but to me and many others the trail does not end with money alone. Passion, emotion, loyalty and patriotism sets high on my agenda and I have respect for any person who has higher values in these departments.

If money is the sole object, why the hell I would support an Iranian or half Iranian , whatever the case might be , if his objective is to inflate his own bank account and lives on the principle on who pays more , the higher I jump for him?
It all depends on the way you look at things. What is more important for you , how you set priorities. I fear that the over commercialization of football might one day have a sever effect on the beautiful sport. Total loyalty to dollars in an extreme fashion versus other principles of a human being .

Ghotbi certainly made his point very clear in 2007 and to me, he proved it again after the recent developments.

[maij]

While I am not in favor of Ghotbi's behavior toward the end of his contract in PP, in order to put things in prospect and find the root cause, I would like to point out a few names and root cause of the problem not the symptom.

Luca Bonacic left Sephan without paying a dime while his contract wasn't finished. So did Engin Firat and the Zhirandro Veeiera the Brazilian guy. They all left without paying a dime back to Sepahan.

PP was the worst example of the spending (read wasting money) when dealing with foriegners. List includes both coaches and players. Arrie Haan, Theo Dejoung, Schmit and now Ghotbi among coaches. Players list is even worst. Rafaal, Nikolefeski, Aranda, Di Carmo, Atsu.

Saipa case with both Litbarski and the other German coach who left two seasons ago (forgot his name) that later Daie took over.

The root cause all of this is unprofessional management of our clubs (which in turn is due to the stupid people who run our conutry now). All these clubs need to do is to hire a few lawyers even temporary, so they write the contract the way that these foriegners can't shove it to us so good. Root cause is the contracts are written by people who aren't a professional lawyers in order to preserve our rights.


IRI leadership is destroying our country and our sports isn't an exception.
This post is by no means to justify Ghotbi's unprofessional behavior to leave the PP club btw.

I believe , like any other profession in Iran , there are good lawyers and bad ones. As far as contracts are concerned , I can say from personal experience that Lawyers (at least the good ones) know exactly what they are talking about , very shrewd and very smart. In fact in the case I dealt with , they outsmarted our highly paid British legal adviser and his team.

I don't think it is a question of lack of skilled lawyers , hell in football terms , you can by a template for such contract from anywhere in the world. However , if a club wants to pay peanuts for a attorney, it will get a monkey instead.

I am not sure of details of those cases you mentioned , but I certainly agree that the clubs have done many bad deals when it comes to foreign recruitment.

My simple suggestion to this is to assign responsibility and accountability on the managements. I guess that is lacking right now. Managers , Directors and chairmen should be held liable for failed deals and not get away with wasting public money so easily.

BUT....in the first place, clubs need professional managers....NOT ex-footballers.

A unique situation in Iran exists that if you are an ex-footballer you are automatically qualified to run the finances and affairs of a commercial professional club......How sad of a thought!!!!!

[Ali Chicago]

I believe , like any other profession in Iran , there are good lawyers and bad ones. As far as contracts are concerned , I can say from personal experience that Lawyers (at least the good ones) know exactly what they are talking about , very shrewd and very smart. In fact in the case I dealt with , they outsmarted our highly paid British legal adviser and his team.

I don't think it is a question of lack of skilled lawyers , hell in football terms , you can by a template for such contract from anywhere in the world. However , if a club wants to pay peanuts for a attorney, it will get a monkey instead.

I am not sure of details of those cases you mentioned , but I certainly agree that the clubs have done many bad deals when it comes to foreign recruitment.

My simple suggestion to this is to assign responsibility and accountability on the managements. I guess that is lacking right now. Managers , Directors and chairmen should be held liable for failed deals and not get away with wasting public money so easily.

BUT....in the first place, clubs need professional managers....NOT ex-footballers.

A unique situation in Iran exists that if you are an ex-footballer you are automatically qualified to run the finances and affairs of a commercial professional club......How sad of a thought!!!!!

My intention in that post to claim there are lack of professional lawyers in Iran. I haven't been in Iran for more than 23 years and wouldn't dare to make such a big claim.

The gist of my post was clubs board and management don't write (maybe they don't use the good lawyers, or there are lack of lawyers in dealing with sport realted contracts). The contracts when deal with foriegn based coaches and players in like more than 99% of the cases always ended up going against clubs in Iran. Refer to Arie Haan infamous case and in this case even Ghotbi it seems getting away with leaving the club in the middle of the season without any penalty.


One more data point was, I was talking to one of the poeple who was involved with the TV broadcasting rights and he was saying that contracts in Iran are very simplistic. He refered to the TV broadcasting right for the KSA Iran game which supposedly was under 10-12 pages vs. typical boradcasting contract that according to him are more than 30-40 pages long.
Heck, I wanted to buy a franchise right (very little one for that matter) and the contract was more than 30 pages long.

[Ali Chicago]

It seems there is more about Ghotbi's departure and Ghotbi had an interview in his house efore leaving Iran. But the film of this interview is censored and a small portion of it, was broadcasted. See the link for details.


http://www.mehrnews.com/fa/newsdetai...?NewsID=792969

[TM-Fan]

^ These are just rumors IMO.

Ghotbi knows how to work with computers and he reads news like this. If he had something to say, he could have posted a video file or a piece of text in the Internet himself.

[shayan20]

Good to see it on ZendegiFootball

http://www.zendegifootball.com/newsd...aspx?nid=18721

[Ali Chicago]

While ago Agha Mansoor accused me of posting and belitteling a certain member (Ala more specifically), which I tried to show him that wasn't the case. Many on PFDC are very familiar with Ala and his posts and it is Azhar man alshams, but I humbly request F+ members check the following two posts first one from Ala of course
http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...73&postcount=1
Then read the next post that posts more portions of the interview by Vaez Ashtiani by LI23 and see how things were taken out of context and a big part of interview was selectively ignored by the poster.
http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...79&postcount=3
You be the judge.
I am not advocating censorship by any means. But I humbly request (without interfering in mods duties) from PFDC staff and management something be done about this obvious distortion and selectively only taking things out of context to give false information.
No one in right mind after reading the two posts can claim Ala didnt' see the other parts of the Vaez Ashtiani, Why and how he only take a portion of the interview and posts it?
Thanks to LI23 for posting a big portion of the real interview.
If you read the part that LI23 post actually you see Vaez Ashtiani talks about the role of management and how a good manager might not a sportsman himself/herself and still be a good sport manager. Article talks about how serious and focused he was during the interview. I hate hezbollahis and IRI and Vaez isn't my cousin, but this is a good thing at least relative to other managers like Fattollahzadeh or Mostafavi. But see where the foucs of Ala is and how he twisted the whole thing. I humbly request PFDC management to look into a solution when someone time and time again take things out of context and spread false news.
This is part of the article, it seems Ala has no interest in any of the these important issues and focus on one sentence who the alleged player hand was in his pocket. I let you be the judge. Then we get insulted when Ben Hemam doesn't mention our football as a force in Asia. If we want to get respected it will be the accumulation of a large number of smaller steps (namely one of them must be professional sport management).
واعظ آشتياني در طول مصاحبه سه ساعته با دنياي*فوتبال آنقدر جدي بود كه حد و حصر نداشت. او حتي در صحنه*هايي كه چيا فوادي و علي عالي" مي*خنديدند حتي يك لبخند هم نزد. جديت او در پاسخ دادن به سوالات بي*نظير بود. مديرعامل استقلال در پاسخ به هر سوال با تامل و تعمق خاصي جواب مي*داد و هيچ جمله* نسنجيده*اي از او شنيده نشد.
كليت مصاحبه او روي اين نكته مهم مي*چرخيد، مديريت در ورزش احتياج به لباس ورزشي ندارد و مديريت يك علم است و آنها كه تلاش دارند اين موضوع را نفي كنند، مي*ترسند از ورزش براي هميشه كنار بروند. در كل پيشنهاد مي*كنيم، *مصاحبه بلند دنياي*فوتبال را با واعظ از دست ندهيد"

[kaz]

You expect it from big media outlets to have bias and prejudice, purporting an agenda; but not a small site, relatively, like PFDC. However, what's become clear as day is that some members cannot help but post with their personal feelings clouding their judgement. I guess even the little guys have an ego to stroke. These members, the prime example being Ala, are the real cancers to the site, if not our culture in the broader sense. Repetitive misinformation and character attacks. A repetitive and tiresome agenda trying to sully the person they disrespect in front of everybody else. Trying to stain them every which-way. What it does is create fervent opposition and, of course, for those that don't know any better, fervent support.

Whilst Ghotbi was successful, these people waited patiently again for him to fail. And the funny thing is they think him leaving was a big enough failure to stick 1001 other things to him. Khejalat ham khoob chizye be khoda.