Who is worse than animal Mr. Ghotbi? (An open letter to a fake emperor)

[faraz]

If Mansoor jan had any sort of 'agenda', he would have brought out these stories while our friend there was in power in PP.

aghayoon, let's not forget what 'jouralism' is:

Journalism is the profession of writing or communicating, formally employed by publications and broadcasters, for the benefit of a particular community of people. The writer or journalist is expected to use facts to describe events, ideas, or issues that are relevant to the public. Journalists (also known as news analysts, reporters, and correspondents) gather information, and broadcast it so we remain informed about local, state, national, and international events. They can also present their points of view on current issues and report on the actions of the government, public officials, corporate executives, interest groups, media houses, and those who hold social power or authority. (Source - Wikipedia)

What purpose did Mansoor's post hold? Did it get him money, like the many garbage papers in Iran, with their conjuring of cheap tricks and rumours to keep the public happy? Let's look past this 'agenda' business and ask ourselves why would Mansoor produce such a controversial piece, if there was no real truth in it. Is he crazy? Dimented? Challenged? Does he wish to spew rumours around for some unknown, mysterious and dark reason, perhaps to impede the progress of our football and negatively affect how people view or sportsman?

Clearly, these are rhetorical questions...if there is one thing Mansoor and others here (Webbi Jan and Majid Jan) have dedicated their lives to, it is the progress and recognition of our football.

Showing stories like these is a great learning experience for those young ones, as myself, to try and look beyond what we physically see in front of us and hold judgment until facts are revealed. In fact, you can just as easily apply this to life and develop into a morally strong and ethically present individual.

[maij]

If Mansoor jan had any sort of 'agenda', he would have brought out these stories while our friend there was in power in PP.

aghayoon, let's not forget what 'jouralism' is:

Journalism is the profession of writing or communicating, formally employed by publications and broadcasters, for the benefit of a particular community of people. The writer or journalist is expected to use facts to describe events, ideas, or issues that are relevant to the public. Journalists (also known as news analysts, reporters, and correspondents) gather information, and broadcast it so we remain informed about local, state, national, and international events. They can also present their points of view on current issues and report on the actions of the government, public officials, corporate executives, interest groups, media houses, and those who hold social power or authority. (Source - Wikipedia)

What purpose did Mansoor's post hold? Did it get him money, like the many garbage papers in Iran, with their conjuring of cheap tricks and rumours to keep the public happy? Let's look past this 'agenda' business and ask ourselves why would Mansoor produce such a controversial piece, if there was no real truth in it. Is he crazy? Dimented? Challenged? Does he wish to spew rumours around for some unknown, mysterious and dark reason, perhaps to impede the progress of our football and negatively affect how people view or sportsman?

Clearly, these are rhetorical questions...if there is one thing Mansoor and others here (Webbi Jan and Majid Jan) have dedicated their lives to, it is the progress and recognition of our football.

Showing stories like these is a great learning experience for those young ones, as myself, to try and look beyond what we physically see in front of us and hold judgment until facts are revealed. In fact, you can just as easily apply this to life and develop into a morally strong and ethically present individual.

Faraz Jan.... This "SMALL" site is so much richer with people like yourself around....Thank you.

I guess many of the so-called opposition to Mansoor's article simply enjoy being anti-establishment.

[maij]

You expect it from big media outlets to have bias and prejudice, purporting an agenda; but not a small site, relatively, like PFDC. However, what's become clear as day is that some members cannot help but post with their personal feelings clouding their judgement. I guess even the little guys have an ego to stroke. These members, the prime example being Ala, are the real cancers to the site, if not our culture in the broader sense. Repetitive misinformation and character attacks. A repetitive and tiresome agenda trying to sully the person they disrespect in front of everybody else. Trying to stain them every which-way. What it does is create fervent opposition and, of course, for those that don't know any better, fervent support.

Whilst Ghotbi was successful, these people waited patiently again for him to fail. And the funny thing is they think him leaving was a big enough failure to stick 1001 other things to him. Khejalat ham khoob chizye be khoda.

We are very proud of this SMALL website , and if it does not meet your intellectual standards , you are welcome to join a BIG site and leave this SMALL website for people who appreciate it.


Ajab adame pouroo 'e

[kaz]

We are very proud of this SMALL website , and if it does not meet your intellectual standards , you are welcome to join a BIG site and leave this SMALL website for people who appreciate it.


Ajab adame pouroo 'e

Excuse me? Do you even know what I meant? Majid khan, seriously, your stock is falling fast.

When I mention big news companies and agendas, I am talking about agencies which are susceptible to bias because of the advertising dollar they generate from their sponsors. This site, in comparison, is not in that kind of danger. So to see a few certain members systematically try to demean a coach with an obvious agenda is puzzling. It's narcissistic in a way. The big corporations at least have an excuse for being easily strung along for money; I don't see the motivation here.

As I said before, khejalat ham khoob chiziye be khoda.

[maij]

The question is how would you know anything about an agenda without even knowing the person??? You would not recognize Mansoor if he hit you on the head , yet you give yourself the liberty to dissect his brain and heart by your slanderous accusation such as an "obvious agenda"!!!.

If you have any proof to maintain credibility, then spell it out rather than uttering trash talk.
The fact that you find it puzzling is because in your mindset, you think that everyone and everything is geared towards money and commercial interest that is why you do not have the capacity to accept that there are more to it than personal interest.

The only decent thing you said is "khejalat ham khoob chiziye be khoda." , however it would have been prudent to apply that to yourself before preaching others .

[Kavian]

Mansoor / Ali jaan --

Can one of you provide a Word version of this thread so that I can read it on my daily commute to work?
Boy! this is probably the most texty thread ever on PDFC!!! :-)

Humour aside ... here is my 2 cents:

Let's not write to reject each other's opinion (right or wrong) but rather write to make own statements. It would be up to the reader to decide which one he/she preferes to associate with. This is the basis for healthy and productive discussion. Arguments would not get us anywhere and damages the respect that we need to have for one another. Come on guys, please refrain from arguing, after all you need to be the role models here!

Cheers!

[kaz]

The question is how would you know anything about an agenda without even knowing the person??? You would not recognize Mansoor if he hit you on the head , yet you give yourself the liberty to dissect his brain and heart by your slanderous accusation such as an "obvious agenda"!!!.

If you have any proof to maintain credibility, then spell it out rather than uttering trash talk.
The fact that you find it puzzling is because in your mindset, you think that everyone and everything is geared towards money and commercial interest that is why you do not have the capacity to accept that there are more to it than personal interest.

The only decent thing you said is "khejalat ham khoob chiziye be khoda." , however it would have been prudent to apply that to yourself before preaching others .

I've seen Mansoor on TV and read his posts here. As I have you and many others. So I know of your history in posting with regards to this context and the broader context of Iranian football in general. I do not need to know someone "personally" to be privy to this information.

It seems you've misunderstood my post AGAIN. I said, that people here obviously WEREN'T financially motivated as such a site hardly generates the revenue/interest where people would PAY people here to write certain things - unlike big news agencies, that certainly have an element of bias to them because of that monetary situation.

So, here, I put the question, what is it that some people feel the need to systematically degrade someone else (Ghotbi)? I can't figure it out. All I know is, anyone with an ounce of shame would try at the least to be even-handed about this.

I don't need to spell out something I've said a million times before. Something well known. A lot of people dislike Ghotbi and their dislike is often exaggerated for some strange reason into hatred where they try to turn everything against the man for the means of character assassination. Those people know full well who they are, and people reading these posts know them too.

Again, I'll repeat: khejalat ham khoob chiziye be khoda. And that'll be the last time I say it here and this will be my last post on the matter. I've already made my point crystal clear.

[maij]

I've seen Mansoor on TV and read his posts here. As I have you and many others. So I know of your history in posting with regards to this context and the broader context of Iranian football in general. I do not need to know someone "personally" to be privy to this information.

It seems you've misunderstood my post AGAIN. I said, that people here obviously WEREN'T financially motivated as such a site hardly generates the revenue/interest where people would PAY people here to write certain things - unlike big news agencies, that certainly have an element of bias to them because of that monetary situation.

So, here, I put the question, what is it that some people feel the need to systematically degrade someone else (Ghotbi)? I can't figure it out. All I know is, anyone with an ounce of shame would try at the least to be even-handed about this.

I don't need to spell out something I've said a million times before. Something well known. A lot of people dislike Ghotbi and their dislike is often exaggerated for some strange reason into hatred where they try to turn everything against the man for the means of character assassination. Those people know full well who they are, and people reading these posts know them too.

Again, I'll repeat: khejalat ham khoob chiziye be khoda. And that'll be the last time I say it here and this will be my last post on the matter. I've already made my point crystal clear.

OK...Let us keep it simple here without too much argument..

Give me one shred of evidence , That I or someone else here has and Agenda against Ghotbi ?

[Ali Chicago]

Mansoor / Ali jaan --
Can one of you provide a Word version of this thread so that I can read it on my daily commute to work?
Boy! this is probably the most texty thread ever on PDFC!!! :-)
Humour aside ... here is my 2 cents:
Let's not write to reject each other's opinion (right or wrong) but rather write to make own statements. It would be up to the reader to decide which one he/she preferes to associate with. This is the basis for healthy and productive discussion. Arguments would not get us anywhere and damages the respect that we need to have for one another. Come on guys, please refrain from arguing, after all you need to be the role models here!
Cheers!

Sorry Aziz;

I am doing my best aziz. Guess that is probably the limitation of my abilities. As far as I can see, I tried to criticize certain aspect of the "open letter" when private aspects of Ghotbi's life (why he hasn't gone back to Iran, why he get divorced, whether the woman he is with is his gf/wife). Guess, I missed the ball and couldn't covey my critisisem correctly. Sorry Kavian Jaan.

[Ali Chicago]

OK...Let us keep it simple here without too much argument..

Give me one shred of evidence , That I or someone else here has and Agenda against Ghotbi ?

Agha majid,

If I interject for a second. If you see, Kaz' first post was right after my post when I mentioned obvious distortion and misinoformation by Ala please see the post. I beleiev Kaz's post and sharp attack (as he even mentioned himself in the post) is toward the METHODS that Ala uses. But it somehow got lost in translation probably in big part due to the recent tension of the Open Letter by Mansoor and issue turned to Mansoor. Ala's story is a different example as I captured it in my post earlier and the rhethoric in Kaz post is aimed at Ala not Mansoor. His constant reference to "khejalat ham khoob cheeseeye" is toward Ala's methods, not anyone else (at least that is what I read into it).

That is all I am going to say on this and don't mean to intervene into this issue.

[St_Mark]

Contract covered most of mutual concerns with few exception and separate agreement was reached that include additional benefits for Ghotbi . This is the method Mustafavi insisted and Ghotbi agreed. Ghotbi were warn about Mustafavi and his methods by friends and Agent/broker but I doubt he fully understood all aspects of the deal and the way it will be used otherwise Ghotbi would have objected to variation in contracts submitted to ILP authorities.

According to Ghotbi, h can walk away from contract if Club fail to accommodate his requests specified in contact and when Club failed his specified obligations.



Ghotbi might have thought he is much smarter than Mustafavi , perhaps until he decided to leave and break a contract. At first when Marco was dismissed ( to prevent Dubai trips) and Mutiny of few players , fans chanting against him he did not realize how far Mustafavi will go , until that scary episode and car scare. By then Ghotbi realize that contract means whatever Mustafavi says not what it read.



Issue will result silently but soon or later more detail will emerge however just like in the past truth will be the victim and lost among various versions.

[St_Mark]

Agha majeed, where did I say those things that you claim i said??

lol, best one is the " perspolis bad" part...



Now you sound like someone that has no idea what a CONTRACT is or means. Ghotbi manipulated a system so cleverly, by signing a contract that PERSPOLIS management gave him? after he had already left perspolis, and it was perspolis management that went after him sucking up to him to come back??

baba, ye kassee ya ye nakasee een ghardado dadeh be een amoo emza kardeh.. az khodesh ke dar nayovordeh boodeh.

Instead of stating the problem , you are bashing ghotbi for taking more than what YOU think he is worth?

Ok, when your employer gives you an offer/contract that favors you, tell him no, you don't deserve that much money,..

Dear Agha Bahzad.
I agree with you about contract in general with one exception.
Inclusion of some clauses or item in an specified contract may become ground for null contract. There are chapters of grounds for nullification.

This particulate contract for IPL is very specified and IF there is separating agreement that can be tied up to presented contracts and authorities suspect to be a violation of Tax code (evasion) or mislead, that could possibly be viewed as ground for contract null.

Regards
Hejaz

[Ali Chicago]

Dear Agha Bahzad.
I agree with you about contract in general with one exception.
Inclusion of some clauses or item in an specified contract may become ground for null contract. There are chapters of grounds for nullification.

This particulate contract for IPL is very specified and IF there is separating agreement that can be tied up to presented contracts and authorities suspect to be a violation of Tax code (evasion) or mislead, that could possibly be viewed as ground for contract null.

Regards
Hejaz

I am not a lawyer so if you are in this field, you may know something I don't know. But from logical poiont of view, the fact that Ghotbi has a second and a seperate contract with the club, is the ground for the Sazemane League to punish PP. I don't beleive Sazmane League or Disciplinary committe will have the right (based on FIFA international rules) to nulify Ghotbi's so called "official" contract with PP.

From reading your post, I can see two cases:

Is gist of your argument is since Ghotbi has a second contract, his first contract can be nullified or there are clauses in the first contract that allows one nullifies it?
To me that can't be a ground, Ghotbi potentially can complain to FIFA (unless IRI threatens his family and silence him) and like many other who complained from PP and won, he will win too. Many players or coaches get extra bonus for signing contracts. As a matter of fact on the paper at times player's salary is nothing compared to the other deals and bonuses he get sometimes from a a third party (Refer to Beckham contract with LA for example).

If both PP and Ghotib have signed it and a copy of the first contract is in the league, how come no one protested the inclusion of the contraversial caluses in the first contract?
In this case, I think Ghotbi will have even a better chance. Ghotbi's silence is very strange. Wish he spoke.

[kaz]

OK...Let us keep it simple here without too much argument..

Give me one shred of evidence , That I or someone else here has and Agenda against Ghotbi ?

LMAO, this thread, your posting over numerous threads...those aren't evidence of an agenda? Are you kidding? And you said roo'e man ziade. baba to dige ki hasti.

I'll give you one post of many in probably the most popular Ghotbi thread:

Basically that is what I am saying. He had a great squad , full of fighting if not tactically superior , and full of resolve. See how many times this Perspolis team scored late goals and a veeeery late goal to win the championship because of their perseverance and stamina.

No denying that Ghotbi has to be credited , but so should be Estili and the rest of the team. It was not as if Ghotbi has single-handedly won the championship.

An example of you denigrating his achievements or doing WHATEVER you can to at least plug support for Ghotbi. Contrast this with Ghotbi's successor Peyrovani where now they seem to be playing better not coincidentally, or after a bad result he needs more time:

Afshin Peyrovani needs to be given more time...

Rome was not built in one day.

But Ghotbi built his "empire" in a "day"?

The first "Moch Ghiri" by Adel was that Pesrpolis management has officially declared that Ghotbi will only get 5 to 7 % increase on salary for the new season , which was half a million dollars ...but in fact Ghotbi was awarded over $ 1 million , including fringe benefits!

WOW, fringe benefits too? AJAB MOCH GIRIYE MIKONE EEN ADELLLL.

LOL ..ISNA bad , IFF bad , Perspolis Bad , Hame bad...Afshin Ghotbi Very good.

Frankly , with such mentality , you deserve a guy like Ghotbi. Somehow I doubt that you would have the same impression and see the funny or clever side of it if that if that money came from your bank account instead of the public money.

I still fail to understand your admiration for a man who manipulated the system so cleverly by getting maximum financial advantage without completing his task.

AH, so he manipulated the system. Ajab adame kasifiye een Ghotbi...he made a contract looking out for his OWN benefits. AJAB...

Please, I am not bi-kar enough to go through every one of your posts to show why and in what context it is demeaning to Ghotbi. Here is one more recent example:

In my book, such behavior distinguishes the value of people when it comes to integrity and ethics.


Podolski subdued his emotion and curtailed his celebration, when he scored against his ancestor land Poland while playing for Germany, his country of birth.

Podolski is amongst hundreds of other players or coaches before him , who have acted in similar manner as a sign of respect to their ex-clubs or country. Don’t go very far , our own Saeed Lotfi of Paykan who played many years in the league for Esteghal before transferring back to Paykan this season , made a similar gesture and did not celebrate when he scored against his old club, Esteghlal.

Yes…one must have loyalty for the paymaster, but to me and many others the trail does not end with money alone. Passion, emotion, loyalty and patriotism sets high on my agenda and I have respect for any person who has higher values in these departments.

If money is the sole object, why the hell I would support an Iranian or half Iranian , whatever the case might be , if his objective is to inflate his own bank account and lives on the principle on who pays more , the higher I jump for him?
It all depends on the way you look at things. What is more important for you , how you set priorities. I fear that the over commercialization of football might one day have a sever effect on the beautiful sport. Total loyalty to dollars in an extreme fashion versus other principles of a human being .

Ghotbi certainly made his point very clear in 2007 and to me, he proved it again after the recent developments.

As if Afshin Ghotbi being happy his S.Korea team won means all that? Agha jan, Guus Hiddink was ecstatic when both his Australia and Russia beat Holland. And he has many more connections to his homeland than Podolski. Or last, but not least:

For all those who think of Ghotbi as an angel , here is an interesting piece to expose the man...

Wow, THANK YOU for exposing him. I thought he was the next prophet. Thank you for opening my eyes.

...

Please, agha jan, nobody is blind and people read these boards everyday. As I said, those that I am speaking of know who they are and the others know exactly who I am talking about. Hala to baz biya begoo: "That is not proof an Agenda" just as you would say "but it doesn't SAY illegal!". People who have been reading enough and know enough are intelligent enough to decipher what I mean and who is who.

[BehzadB]

I am not a lawyer so if you are in this field, you may know something I don't know. But from logical poiont of view, the fact that Ghotbi has a second and a seperate contract with the club, is the ground for the Sazemane League to punish PP. I don't beleive Sazmane League or Disciplinary committe will have the right (based on FIFA international rules) to nulify Ghotbi's so called "official" contract with PP.
From reading your post, I can see two cases:
Is gist of your argument is since Ghotbi has a second contract, his first contract can be nullified or there are clauses in the first contract that allows one nullifies it?
To me that can't be a ground, Ghotbi potentially can complain to FIFA (unless IRI threatens his family and silence him) and like many other who complained from PP and won, he will win too. Many players or coaches get extra bonus for signing contracts. As a matter of fact on the paper at times player's salary is nothing compared to the other deals and bonuses he get sometimes from a a third party (Refer to Beckham contract with LA for example).
If both PP and Ghotib have signed it and a copy of the first contract is in the league, how come no one protested the inclusion of the contraversial caluses in the first contract?
In this case, I think Ghotbi will have even a better chance. Ghotbi's silence is very strange. Wish he spoke.

St_mark is right in saying that a contract which has a clause that breaks a law is not an enforceable contract. that's why you can not sign a contract with another person to have someone beaten up. Like tax evasion , beating people up is illegal.

Even if a second "deal" was done between the two sides here, I doubt they would have put it on paper. I doubt that Ghotbi or Mostafavi or Hedayatee would actually do side business together and put it in black and white. My guess is that they too knew that they can't enforce a "side' deal, when they have officially signed something else.

I think if anything, STB/Hedayatee/Mostafavi paid whatever it took to bring him back, and NOW that he has left they have to make him be the bad guy, because god forbid, we don't have any of that stuff going on in Iran. I mean the only problem with our football is that extra money that Ghotbi took.