Who is worse than animal Mr. Ghotbi? (An open letter to a fake emperor)

[St_Mark]

St_mark is right in saying that a contract which has a clause that breaks a law is not an enforceable contract. that's why you can not sign a contract with another person to have someone beaten up. Like tax evasion , beating people up is illegal.

Even if a second "deal" was done between the two sides here, I doubt they would have put it on paper. I doubt that Ghotbi or Mostafavi or Hedayatee would actually do side business together and put it in black and white. My guess is that they too knew that they can't enforce a "side' deal, when they have officially signed something else.

I think if anything, STB/Hedayatee/Mostafavi paid whatever it took to bring him back, and NOW that he has left they have to make him be the bad guy, because god forbid, we don't have any of that stuff going on in Iran. I mean the only problem with our football is that extra money that Ghotbi took.

Dear Agha Behzad:
I agree with you. I doubt Ghotbi will do such an act.
Few clarifications:
My views do not focus on individuals (Ghotbi, Mustafavi...) but procedures, methods and in this case a bad contract.

I have no independent source, except what has been published to everyone. (Sifted by me and only my opinion not necessarily facts)

How this contract might be considered tinted:
Scenarios with example:
1-Assuming for example both sides has agreed on 8 line items but decide to prepare 6 line items document ( contract) for IPL and decided to handle 2 remaining items under the table . Under such scenario if two reaming item involve money, property, service… and implemented, it create a different contract as far as authorities.
2-If authorities conclude Contract for IPL was manufactured in order to hide aspect of the deal , it will consider tinted contract and scheme to subvert law and regulation specially if involved international monetary transfer.

There are many thing Ghotbi does and I don’t agree/ understand (*) but I doubt he will resort to FIFA for a different reasons. He will simply not be able to work in Iran and I think he still has some aspiration.

(*), I sympathized with Ghotbi when mistreated but I don’t understand/ agree when Ghotbi where he argued:
1-Currency in his contract be considered $ not Iranian currency.
2- Appeal to Swiss /Switzerland court and not Iranian court in case of dispute them.
..
And I don’t know much about law except what I learn when arrested few times by zalil shodeh US government and staying in holiday innJ

[BehzadB]

^^ Hejaz Jan,

Ghotbi asking for his money in U.S or European or Iranian Currency is really neither a legal nor a relevant issue here. there could be a thousand reasons for it. I would have asked for Euro, instead of $. You would have been fine with Toman? fine.

About having a clause to take the case to Swiss court, that too doesn't matter. Even if that clause wasn't there, Ghotbi or any coach or player can take their case to FIFA anyways, as long as they have the right documentation (i.e, executed contracts, proper certifications, ITC's,..bla bla bla), and a reason to file a complaint..

[St_Mark]

^^ Hejaz Jan,

Ghotbi asking for his money in U.S or European or Iranian Currency is really neither a legal nor a relevant issue here. there could be a thousand reasons for it. I would have asked for Euro, instead of $. You would have been fine with Toman? fine.

About having a clause to take the case to Swiss court, that too doesn't matter. Even if that clause wasn't there, Ghotbi or any coach or player can take their case to FIFA anyways, as long as they have the right documentation (i.e, executed contracts, proper certifications, ITC's,..bla bla bla), and a reason to file a complaint..

Dear Agha Behzad :
May be I said it incorrectly.
What I mean:
1- the Court of Arbitration for Sport , or else) . Because job is in Iran, Iranian court and legal system are first step for dispute. It is weird to ask that be waived. He requested ( alleged ) to be exempt from Iranian legal system in any dispute regarding his contract and IFF or even President of IRI can not do that.
2- He will receive ( exchange)his contract amount ultimately in any currency he desire but contract as a document for Iranian are written in Farsi and currency is specified Iranian currency. For foreigners (players and coaches) that is different.

This is his preference and his right to ask.
If you were dual citizen, wanted to work Iran for year or two, would you insist your contract exclude Iranian currency and legal system in dispute ?.We may have each different answer for that, as I said this is the part that I have trouble to understand and agree with.

Hopefully when he decide to clarify his side , we will all know more rather than heresy, All of our talks here are base on third party report and rumors.

[BehzadB]

^^If it were me, I would make sure I never have to take anything to Iranian Legal system. Been there, done that! khoda nasibeh doshmanet nak0neh.

[Ali Chicago]

Behzad Jaan;

I think a second contract can exist between two parties and the existance of a second cotract doesn't neccesarily nulify the first one. I myself do a lot of contract work for firms and at times due to several reasons, there is a second contract, seperate from the main contract ( I can't go into details, but in US I persoanally do this).

The way I see it, Ghotbi, realized how shir to shir it is in Iran and the competiton between the so called Osolgharayan (Ahmadi Nezahd and his gang (i.e. AliAbadi) and several of other gans (one of them Ghalibaff, Kashani, company)) and got a sweet deal. Was it ethical? Probably not, but Ghotbi wasn't and never claimed to be a hero to fight for Iranian football.

[BehzadB]

^^ Ali jan,

On the legality issues of a second or first contract, I can't make a comment as I don't know either way. That's for the lawyers and the legal system under which the contracts are made.

as far as what Ghotbi did or thought, I respect your opinion, but the way I see it, I don't think he did anything against any law for asking for what ever that he may have asked for. He was SEEKED, and TARGETED by the same people who paid him. THUS, whatever he asked for and what ever he was given to, was obviously accepted and agreed to by the side that paid him.


In my book he did very well considering he was taking a head coaching job for the first time and his promise of a championship and the way he laid it on his players was truly an exciting time and a new thing that I had never seen among Iranian coaches before. Damesh garm is all I can say, regardless of whether he was a con-artist or just another coach who came and left, like so many others did.

[Mansoor]

If Mansoor jan had any sort of 'agenda', he would have brought out these stories while our friend there was in power in PP.
aghayoon, let's not forget what 'jouralism' is:
Journalism is the profession of writing or communicating, formally employed by publications and broadcasters, for the benefit of a particular community of people. The writer or journalist is expected to use facts to describe events, ideas, or issues that are relevant to the public. Journalists (also known as news analysts, reporters, and correspondents) gather information, and broadcast it so we remain informed about local, state, national, and international events. They can also present their points of view on current issues and report on the actions of the government, public officials, corporate executives, interest groups, media houses, and those who hold social power or authority. (Source - Wikipedia)

What purpose did Mansoor's post hold? Did it get him money, like the many garbage papers in Iran, with their conjuring of cheap tricks and rumours to keep the public happy? Let's look past this 'agenda' business and ask ourselves why would Mansoor produce such a controversial piece, if there was no real truth in it. Is he crazy? Dimented? Challenged? Does he wish to spew rumours around for some unknown, mysterious and dark reason, perhaps to impede the progress of our football and negatively affect how people view or sportsman?
Clearly, these are rhetorical questions...if there is one thing Mansoor and others here (Webbi Jan and Majid Jan) have dedicated their lives to, it is the progress and recognition of our football.

Showing stories like these is a great learning experience for those young ones, as myself, to try and look beyond what we physically see in front of us and hold judgment until facts are revealed. In fact, you can just as easily apply this to life and develop into a morally strong and ethically present individual.

Agha Faraz, I must tell you that I had lost my motivation to bring up more points about this topic. I mean one would imagine some common sense would be enough to see the real side of the matter such as how badly Ghotbi failed in football despite having one of the greatest squad assembled, or how obvious the “questionable” trades and transfers were, or how his track record points at his backstabbing character to anyone who serves him, etc. Yet some people wanna divert the attention to me rather than Ghotbi!!??

Let me thank you for your post. Your excellent description of what should be a common sense has all my respect. Just this post and knowing the presence of people like you that not necessarily agree with what I have said but have enough open mind and intelligence to focus on real issues and figure it out for themselves, has given me enough energy to proceed with the next subject in this topic despite my extremely busy schedule these days. Many thanks.

===

Aghaye Kazem, as you put it, vaghean khejalat dareh that you used such language toward Mr. Panahi. You are not even half his age, and I am sure do not have one micro track record of his years of dedication and services to Iranian football.

And did you think about this post of yours that triggered the exchange?

You expect it from big media outlets to have bias and prejudice, purporting an agenda; but not a small site, relatively, like PFDC.... When I mention big news companies and agendas, I am talking about agencies which are susceptible to bias because of the advertising dollar they generate from their sponsors. This site, in comparison, is not in that kind of danger. So to see a few certain members systematically try to demean a coach with an obvious agenda is puzzling. It's narcissistic in a way. The big corporations at least have an excuse for being easily strung along for money; I don't see the motivation here.

I suggest you to read it a few times and think hard about your statement. Once you exhaust all the mature and immature possibilities for my “hidden” agenda to bring up such issues, one would think that it points back at you: therefore it is you who is having problem figuring it out. I mean if there is no reason for me to bring up false info, that only puts you in a test ... Sometimes we forget the very fundamental question when having problem understanding a subject; “Is it me OR is it you?” .... Not understanding a point by one does not necessarily negate the point but sometimes negate the person who doesn’t understand it ...

===

Once again Ali Agha, I leave it for your level of understanding on the points you again raised about Ala, or others whom you have repeatedly and consistently ridiculed. The point was you asked publicly here not to use such comments toward you that seem ridiculing to you even if I don’t agree with you. My point was I hope you see your own method. Now, you are still insisting that we should look into Ala’s recent writing!?? That was not the point dear. As I mentioned previously, it is not about what is right or wrong but your objection to your own method of ridiculing others which you detected and objected within my writing toward you ...

===

Aghayoon, respectfully please avoid diverting this thread as enough attempt has been done to divert the attention to me rather than Ghotbi. Please discuss legal and non legal contracts in a thread with such topic. There are too much writings already for those who might be interested in this "humanity vs animality" subject that Ghotbi has raised. Please respect their time not to be wasted when browsing through the posts.

===

part of Khakpour's interview with ISNA today:
* ناگفته*هايي از قطبي

در زمان جام جهاني 1998، فدراسيون فوتبال آمريكا تلاش كرد تا از همگروه*هاي خود اطلاعات بدست آورد، بنابراين آنها كسب اطلاعات از تيم ايران را به افشين قطبي سپردند، بدون آنكه بدانند وي مدت زيادي است با ايران در ارتباط نبوده، در واقع قطبي تنها برخي آمار و اطلاعات را از تيم ايران در اختيار فدراسيون فوتبال آمريكا گذاشت و اين گفته كه وي عضو كادرفني تيم ملي آمريكا در جام جهاني 98 بوده، واقعيت ندارد. در فصل گذشته نيز تصور مي*كنم اين استيلي بود كه تيم را آماده كرد و تحويل قطبي داد، او خيلي دير به پرسپوليس آمد و در فصلي كه بهترين مديريت و بازيكنان در خدمت تيم او بود و پرسپوليس تمام شانس*هاي 10 سال اخير را يكجا به بدست آورد توانست با پرسپوليس قهرمان شود.

درباره ابتداي كار قطبي مي*دانم كه او مانند من باشگاهي با نام اختصاري
(AGSC)
داشته است و پس از مدتي نيز كار آناليزوري را آغاز كرد و به عنوان دستيار دوم يا سوم تيم گالكسي فعاليت كرد، بعد هم از طريق ارتباطاتي كه داشت با فدراسيون فوتبال كره جنوبي همكاري كرد، در هر صورت ما در ايران از قطبي فوتبال بين*المللي نديديم.


* ادب، قطبي را امپراتور كرد

متاسفانه عده*اي از مربيان و دست اندركاران فوتبال آن قدر در رفتار و گفتارشان بد برخورد مي*كنند كه وقتي فردي چون قطبي عاميانه*ترين آداب اجتماعي را رعايت مي*كند، تبديل به امپراتور مي*شود. در واقع قطبي تنها آداب اجتماعي را رعايت مي*كرد و به همين دليل بود كه وقتي از كوره در مي*رفت براي همه عجيب بود.

در هر صورت مطبوعات نيز به حضور وي بسيار توجه كرده و قطبي را بزرگ كردند.

http://www.isna.ir/ISNA/NewsView.asp...1252238&Lang=P

[Kaveh]

^that's really interesting. thanks for the info Mansoor jan.

[kaz]

Aghaye Kazem, as you put it, vaghean khejalat dareh that you used such language toward Mr. Panahi. You are not even half his age, and I am sure do not have one micro track record of his years of dedication and services to Iranian football.

I used what kind of language? Harsh language? I apologise, but sometimes one must be harsh to make a point. There is only so much one can try to communicate/accomodate, even taking into account that person's bias', and be completely luke warm.

And did you think about this post of yours that triggered the exchange?
I suggest you to read it a few times and think hard about your statement. Once you exhaust all the mature and immature possibilities for my “hidden” agenda to bring up such issues, one would think that it points back at you: therefore it is you who is having problem figuring it out. I mean if there is no reason for me to bring up false info, that only puts you in a test ... Sometimes we forget the very fundamental question when having problem understanding a subject; “Is it me OR is it you?” .... Not understanding a point by one does not necessarily negate the point but sometimes negate the person who doesn’t understand it ...

That's an open-ended theory on something that is not so open-ended. Majid's posts are all for people to see. I just sampled a very few to give an idea of what I was speaking of. Majid khan said I had no proof that an "agenda" or a "bias" existed and I responded accordingly.

Hidden or not, there is an undeniable bias. It's not something I am even willing to argue, it's been prevalent day-to-day for a long time now. As I said, those people who "know", just do. They've read enough so that "is it me or is it you" is just naive question. I am not talking about the kind of bias that every individual inherently has. I am talking about the kind of bias that makes an individual try to propagate on a site and even defend the likes of Ala in their underhanded non-sense. It's the same kind of fervency that was displayed in the unabashed support of Branko a while ago on this site. It's a central issue here. People, regardless of their age or stature, can't seemingly put their own bias' aside. And my question was, what motives them? Like Ghotbi, here. Criticising the guy and trying to assassinate his character are two different things altogether. Why do a select few stick to the latter?

Anyway, I think the thread has been derailed enough already.

[Doctor DOOM]

What I dont understand is how much material is being written and spoken IN Iran and outside it as well, on ONE coach's exit.

I mean I have not seen this much debate and argument and this level of zeal and fervor for a club coach's exit. especially one who won a championship and left in the middle of the next season.

I'm not defending ghotbi or siding with anyone here. I fact I was one of those who opposed him on countless occasions. But it is very amusing to see ppl talking about him even now. the papers in Iran havent stopped it either.

even failed national team coaches didnt get this much attention that ghotbi's case is getting! and they FAILED horribly ... at INTERNATIONAL level ( meaning the country's rep was at stake there )!

Ghotbi didnt have much of an impact on our football anyway. he came and won a season and left after a few months after that.
why this much scrutiny , debate and in depth analysis and burrowing-in ?

Am I missing something here?
did he have such earth shattering impact on our football that his exit and therefore, his coaching, his behavior, his words, acts, ... need to be discussed and argued at such lengths and depths to this minute level?

lets make it simple; why this much sensitivity towards a club coach who didnt exactly fail anyway ... and more importantly, has already left Iran and Iranian football?
what I mean is we didnt see even quarter of this when simoez destroyed our chances of olympics. or about branko's contract. or worse, aari haan's fiasco. or ... etc.
and it's not as if this is the first time our managements and clubs have signed a totally f**ked up contract and clauses that come around and bite our arses later.
is it becoz he's an Iranian expat ?
what is it ?
very curious.



================

hang on a minute.
australia beat holland?

WTF ?
when ?

[kaz]

My bad, it was a 1-1 draw just before the WC. It was a friendly.

[Doctor DOOM]

Dont you ever ... EVER do that again
blasphemy !



then again, who am I kidding?
I've seen holland self destruct right before my eyes and lose to some crappy piss-pot of a team that explodes the mind !

[shayan20]

This thread needs to be sticked.

[Martin-Reza]

Ah, what should he have done?

One coach being scapegoat after the other in Iranian football.

The coaches aren't the problem. The players are, and that is bitter.

[BehzadB]

This thread needs to be sticked.

And you should be thrown out of F+