Questions for Mansoor

[shayan20]

^^
why should he apologize zzgolo???!!

It's his article and he can write whatever he thinks is necessary.

I remember when pftv was on, He told us he's trying to reveal Ghotbi's real identity to people and media in Iran and don't let our TM get into the hand's of NOOBS, so he felt obliged as a TM fan to do whatever he could to help TM. He proved to us Ghotbi wasn't in 98' US world cup staff list and he was not the assistant coach of Guss Hiddink in 2002 with South korea as he claimed to be!
(This was when Ghotbi was on the verge of becoming TM coach!).
I see nothing wrong with his articles. They are completely legit and suitable for the time.
Whoever don't get the value of the article or don't find it attractive, then don't read it and don't bother criticizing Mansoor as he knows his job well.

[perspolees]

by the way this goes to those blind folds that complaint about ghotbis track record and the fact that he has never been a headcoach a this or a that..
please in your journalistic and or personal books of record put it that he won the IPL as head coach! this is a fact and no speculation!period!
and you know people start from somewhere and become a headcoach...he did that and won it all...would that work as a fact for the blindfolds to see thru?

or we have again lots of but this, if this then that , oh no bt blablas?

please stomach the facts!

can you get me a jury box that would say the same about all of the he said she said speculations that are raised?

[Mansoor]

"
Mansoor,Jaan... I have a suggestion !!
Some members here, are totaly ignoreing many valid points you have had, regarding Ghotbi and the Mafia's within our football system...and how we should, take notice of those......
I believe, you had more important points in mind, than insulting Ghotbi's personalities..................
I would like you to admit, " you may have come accross as charactor assasin ",and once and for all, put this issue at rest !!!........................, since, so many respected members , without any hidden agendas , have felt as you may have used unethical methods to explain your points ....It would be very wise of you, to end this issue, by , distansing yourself from any charactor assasinations....
Just say : " I did not mean any such thing, and if it appeared that way, I am sorry !! "
.....

Agha Bahram, thanks for your concern but believe me there will always be something to pick on with an attempt to divert. Whether it is me writing four articles in one year vs over 100 articles to be the bias one, two line taken from two page article with over 20 different points, or anything else. So rest assured there are many ways to divert attention and I am used to it by now.

In subject of personal issues, I believe I have explained it enough. If one can not get the message and persists with objection, respectfully it is not my fault to say sorry.

The man has come out to say people like me who question him are not human and worse than animal. He did not talk about football but humanity and animality. HE openned up the whole new topic of humanity (in his usual attempt to Mazloom namaei).

When one does that, he better be ready to be questioned about humanity and animality himself. Does he, or some members in a website draw the boarder line once the topic is openned up? Absolutely not. That would benefit one's one sided argument because he says "oh, no within this boarder line you are not human and worse than animal".

Is this how we judge humanity or animality limiting to one or two dimensions? or based on whole character? My question from him was let's look at you, and you answer these questions before we find out who is worse than animal, me or you.

Let me simplify this and take Ghotbi and article out of equation for now so I can speak more direct. What does humanity mean and does one's character and right or wrong doing fit into humanity question or not? Not implying anybody in particular, but isn't part of humanity to be good to your kids? To your family? Doesn't vatanparast mean being good to your country (and more)? Doesn't humanity mean being good, particularly to those who help you? Doesn't humanity mean when a desparate group of people come to you and ask you to help them and you agree, and pay you hefty money and desparately give in to a contract and bizzare demands you have one sidedly presented, to not back stab them?

Why should humanity be stricted only to the area where we can not expose someone's hypocrity? Why should I come to appologize when the guilty party has openned up the topic? My fault is to question back? Does that really mean if a group of people who have persistantly shown to love and cherish him despite his wrong doings, and name him shir or empror I should use them as my point of reference for judgment, and a good jury to decide for me on how I present my counter-argument?

My dear friend, I write not to satisfy anyone in particulare as I explained in two page. I write because I am a free spirit journalist with a passion for Iranian football. Do you remember Karimi topic that I brought up to inform people after world cup? Remember all the stones thrown at me back then? De Ja Vu all over again? It took some of them two years (!?) to see how much he puts himself before his country and national team. And some still don't get it!! I'll wait two years again if I have to but I firmly believe in principle and I firmly believe that the truth always prevail.

Mokhlesim.

[gol_kuchik]

Bahram Jan, none of this as far as I am concerned is personal. Mansoor
should focus on his journalism quality. What would apology do? If
anything he should apologize to himself.

ReadingMansoors posts, I am not seeing with ANY indictment of Mafias. Do you?
Please re-read his entire post again. Instead, he is the one that has
turned this to a crusade against the person of Qhotbi. If you re-read
his post Hedayati is coming out as an innocent naive guy?!! Not just that,
the whole management of Perspolis comes out that way. I wish our
entire football problem would be solved by Qhotbi's departure. Someone
e-mailed me an article by a Niloufar Momeni, which I googled and found
out belongs to a different site and I should not place here. But please
search for that and compare.

[leviathan]

Mansoor,
The post #48 (the last one bleow this) is the best one to date, Defending your position on the open letter to Ghotbi's comments.

[Mansoor]

Mansoor,
The post #48 (the last one bleow this) is the best one to date, Defending your position on the open letter to Ghotbi's comments.

Mokhlesim.

Many thanks for the encouragement as I am trying to pass the message. It is absolutely frustrating to voice your opinion in writing compared to using a microphone to freely speak; trying to minimize the readings for others while having so much to say.

[gol_kuchik]

Somehow I missed this post:

Agha Bahram, thanks for your concern but believe me there will always be something to pick on with an attempt to divert. Whether it is me writing four articles in one year vs over 100 articles to be the bias one, two line taken from two page article with over 20 different points, or anything else. So rest assured there are many ways to divert attention and I am used to it by now.

Let's see what is diversion according to Mansoor. I asked for the
entire text of the contract signed by Ghtobi and PP club. Mansoor Jan,
you either have it or you don't. Please go back to your own thread, when
you put questions like "Is it true you asked for $350k ...this ..." "Is it true
you wanted X for your girlfiend ...."
Now you either have seen the contract, and are trying to tease us with
posting only bits and pieces or you haven't. If you have, and you are
concerened with Bayto-l-mal, doesn't Ahle-Bayt (people) have the right
to see what you saw -- In its entirety-- to make a judgement?
The reason why I call your work unprofessional, is because reading your
open letter and questions, one can not tell if what you pose as questions
are part of the contract? or part of your speculation? or part of rumors?
So how is that supposed to "enlighten" us? Even ISNA letter contained
more real information than your expose.
If you came out and asked POE and IFF to post contracts that uses Bayto-l-Mal (i.e budget), starting with this one I will bow in front of you. that WILL be a true service
But that is not what you are doing. You are
reducing this to a personal vandata against Ghotbi.
Trust me, if Hedayati, or whoever the other idiots that signed the contract
are not capable of reading what they singed, there are a lot of people
who would gladly do so
Aren't you as a concerend Iranian, who lives in U.S apply the good things
you learn (like public documents, and how they should be available, and
Freedom of Information Act) and apply it to this mess? Rather than
making this about Band-e-Tonban?

In subject of personal issues, I believe I have explained it enough. If one can not get the message and persists with objection, respectfully it is not my fault to say sorry.
The man has come out to say people like me who question him are not human and worse than animal. He did not talk about football but humanity and animality. HE openned up the whole new topic of humanity (in his usual attempt to Mazloom namaei).
When one does that, he better be ready to be questioned about humanity and animality himself. Does he, or some members in a website draw the boarder line once the topic is openned up? Absolutely not. That would benefit one's one sided argument because he says "oh, no within this boarder line you are not human and worse than animal".
Is this how we judge humanity or animality limiting to one or two dimensions? or based on whole character? My question from him was let's look at you, and you answer these questions before we find out who is worse than animal, me or you.

So what you saying is, he called me animal, so I am getting even with him
(and the title of your open suggests). Let's part all reasoning outside?
If someone called me an animal, I would not call him animal back. I would
REASON, and show that animals can not REASON. That's supposedly the
highest virtue of a human. (only if we use it though).

Let me simplify this and take Ghotbi and article out of equation for now so I can speak more direct. What does humanity mean and does one's character and right or wrong doing fit into humanity question or not?

I guess now we are getting philisophical? Are you the moral police? Who
gives you the right to judge? You are proving this to be personal over
and over again.

Not implying anybody in particular, but isn't part of humanity to be good to your kids? To your family? Doesn't vatanparast mean being good to your country (and more)?

So you can come here and make statement about someones
love or lack there of for his country/ family based on what you --choose--
to print and now we can all judge?

Doesn't humanity mean being good, particularly to those who help you? Doesn't humanity mean when a desparate group of people come to you and ask you to help them and you agree, and pay you hefty money and desparately give in to a contract and bizzare demands you have one sidedly presented, to not back stab them?

Ellahy Bemeeram. Now Hedayati (A guy who has enough money to buy
Perspolis, is desparate? Desparate for what? These guys are all working
for love of god I suppose? Who hired these desparate people? Do you
even ask why a person who can't read a contract is in position to make
decision? Haven't these poor souls done the same with Ari Han ...Clemente ....
And what exactly made them so desparate? THey are obviously not desparate enough, NOT to give blank check to Ghotbi? I can't stop crying, please go on, I need more tears in my eyes:

Why should humanity be stricted only to the area where we can not expose someone's hypocrity? Why should I come to appologize when the guilty party has openned up the topic?

Let's see, now Mansoor Jan are you trying to tell us about the fallable
nature of humanity? I thought Adam-o-Hava/Habeel-Ghabeel stories
already showed us this? Are you suggesting, Ghotbi is uniquely
gifted with the ability of being a hypocrite? But once again you are
proving this is personal.

My fault is to question back? Does that really mean if a group of people who have persistantly shown to love and cherish him despite his wrong doings, and name him shir or empror I should use them as my point of reference for judgment, and a good jury to decide for me on how I present my counter-argument?

You should present your arguments based on facts and not speculation.
To equate anyone who find issues (and real structural one) with your post
with somehow either really liking Ghotbi is another falacy in your writing.

My dear friend, I write not to satisfy anyone in particulare as I explained in two page.
I write because I am a free spirit journalist with a passion for Iranian football. Do you remember Karimi topic that I brought up to inform people after world cup? Remember all the stones thrown at me back then? De Ja Vu all over again? It took some of them two years (!?) to see how much he puts himself before his country and national team. And some still don't get it!! I'll wait two years again if I have to but I firmly believe in principle and I firmly believe that the truth always prevail.
Mokhlesim.

I have no doubt you write because of your passion. But it is the reasoning
element that is missing. Neither do I question your sincerity.

The problem is, you think if anyone disagrees with you they either lack intelligence or integrity.
If I said something in approval of your writing, that will be just seeing the
light else I will be in your --shit list.

Even your last point about Karimi
(which I thought was correct at the time) proved to be incorrect. I
consider Karimi a gifted player who is simply not physically capable of
doing 7 days of practice. (You may call him lazy or with agenda) but I
think he was honest when he said: He can not fullfill his obligation in
Perspolis and National Team. That's a double edged sword. If he
does not play for a respectable club, he can not get playing time in TM
as we saw, but when he does, he knows his limitation. I have played
club sports and semi-competative level and know how demanding it can
be. The man already has been injured and out (just like Navid Kia and
Jabbari) couple of times. So he just says he wants to do one thing.
At least unless I know all the side to his story, I would not be so quick in
convicting him again.

[Ali Chicago]

"
......
Ghotbi's, American weak charactor, could not accomedate iranian culture, within the country, ...and he showed his disabilities to live within the Ghotbi, proved, everything he had said about profesionality, was a boloney !!!

Can you explain what do u mean by "American weak character"? Is there an attribute in American culture that makes it inherently weak?

There are weak Iranians, American, Turks, Armenians, etc who have character flaws. But American weak Character? Maybe it is all lost in translation after all.

It is the story of the Mullah who drew the snake vs. the teacher to spelled snake maybe. The whole Ghotbi issue exposed how unprofessional are the people who are running the clubs in Iran who sign bad contracts like that. Instead of focusing on that, we get into Haydari Nemati war on Ghotbi.
Please see my latest post in the "who is worst than animal thread" to see what I am talking about.
http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...9&postcount=67

[Ali Chicago]

For the record, Ghotbi didn't call anyone an Animal. He said certain journalist treat people in the football the way that even animals don't treat each other that bad. This is in regards to rumors about Marco his assistant that was in Brazil at the time "according to certain papers went there to bring players for Foolad Ahwaz, without any proof, just the mere accusation". Ghotib called that kind of behavior by certain journalist as treating people in the football worst than the way animals treat each other.

This post doesn't mean I agree with the way Ghotbi beahved at the end. It is just to clarify, Ghotbi didn't call a person an animal, despite certain claims by certain people in the other thread.

[webmaster]

I am koochiktar to say anything here but I dont understand why Mansoor has to respond to this or even explain his motives for his wonderful article?

Because in reality, he has dedicated many hours of his precious time to bring us such a valuable report to help expose a person who has told many lies that were unfortunately sold for top dollars to Iranian people and football in general.

If you don't like the article, like the thousand other ones you read online and might not like, just close the page and read another that floats your boats in a better way.

I may not agree to something or with someone, but instead of trying to prove the author wrong, I usually try to find the answer to why the author would write something like that. And maybe find out what my eyes have been missing.

Do u really think that Mansoor has any benefits to do this? or there is a mafia trying to stop ghotbi from his wonderful agenda for Iran football? or what would me or Majeed jan who has dedicated at least three decades to iranian football gain from this? be reasonable and forget the Daei jan napeleon engleesiha as it was just a movie.

please put your efforts in positive sides of the article and see the full portion of the glass instead.

I see many educated people here trying to play with words where the truth still stands that ghotbi told lies to get a job in Iran. I know for the fact because I know how it all started (dont want to go into details) and who was behind the whole thing.

Those who have been around on PFDC forums know about my feelings towards Mr ghotbi so I dont need to explain myself as I was one of the few who questioned him on his coaching abilities. I still say he is or was a software engineer or operator to be more exact of a tactical and development program that was smart enough to spend some money to advertise his agenda and get a job in Iran, like many business people who advertise their products in Iran in hopes of future sales such as the million ads we see on TVs for example Kreme Halazoon LOL,he was a kind of Kreme Halazoon that was sold to us through an easy ad machine called TV..but the difference was this is not a market he sold to, he played with people's intellect and fans feelings..now come on shoot me now I said it :-) But I was also attacked when I said it and this was way before he got the PP job. It was when other sites plus some TV station wanted him to take a job in Iran, if any of you remembers.

It's so sad that educated people try to pick each others brains in a violent way instead of trying to do something that helps promote something good and not to destroy it.

Now with all these fake supports for Ghotbi, I dont know what to say just to be ashamed to read some of the responses here. Do u honestly believe that he was the real deal or are you just trying to follow the dombe khoroos?

Remember that this forum was to discuss our football in more depth not to try to bug each other intellectually. This is what the forum description says:

The members of this forum are selected by the F+ members of this site according to the quality of their posts,their disciplinary measures and relative activities. Members can not apply to be able to post and only admins will add and invite members.

It means we have selected you to bring value to this forum not casting doubts on the hard work of many people here who's only intention is to do good for our football people including Mansoor and Majeed e aziz.

if you really want to do something good, go after the bad guys of our football and not those who have dedicated time, money and sacrificed the time to be with their families, the chance to do more business and their lives for the good of our football. Is this really fair?

So please start pointing your guns towards the real Mozalat of our football. or we have to do it in a way that is not pleasantly suitable for the educated members such as yourself.

[maij]

Thanks Kamran jan.....These are truly words of wisdom.

As a person who has dedicated a lot of your time , money and even sacrificed his social life for Iranian football , and continue to do so unabated , you are the most qualified person to address such issue.

Many people fail to see , or at least appreciate , the hardship and efforts that goes on behind the scene to offer services to Iranian football community , be it in the form of difficult projects such as websites like PFDC or TMDC , journalism, reserach or news gathering. Not only this is done without any monetary return , but it all comes out of our own hard earned money , our own pockets and our own time , just for the love of Iranian football.

Instead of recognition of such effrorts , you will always find the odd ones with "I don't care for you.." attitude , underming a person to a degree of personal insult becuse he dislikes the facts , dislike the opposing opinion , dislikes the person or all the aforementioned. Now , if such person had more knowledge , regular dealing with stake holders , more contact with the real football in Iran , then it is digestable. Regretably , the less information they have the more powerful and opininated they become.

As for the Football + forum , I very much support the idea that we must keep the high standard going and be more selective. This forum should be based on quality rather than quantity posting. I have no problem whatsover discussing issues and engage in arguments , but what upsets me to a certain degree is when people mix opinions with facts. Those who consider their point of views as FACTS and give themselves the liberty to personally attack and discredit the other(s) who don't agree with them.

I , once again , express my admiration for Mansoor on his great work , and consider him as an asset to this website and Iranian football in general.

[zzgloo]

Can you explain what do u mean by "American weak character"? Is there an attribute in American culture that makes it inherently weak?
There are weak Iranians, American, Turks, Armenians, etc who have character flaws. But American weak Character? Maybe it is all lost in translation after all.
http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...9&postcount=67

Ali Jaan.....
I do not want to open a new thread, yet, I have to answer your question , atleast, in a short version.But, if you wanted, I can write a book !!
I have lived in USA, for 32 years now....and I used to critisize American culture for the first 15 years....then I started to critisize Iranian culture for the next 15 years......., and at the end, came up with your point of ,that there are goods and bads every where......But,in between, I noticed some charactoristics regarding both cultures, as well as many other cultures.....
, In general, American culture, is a " One generation culture "., and what we see today, is not how it was 100 years ago !!
any way, the long story short...................
Americans, aside from so many magnificent charactoristics they have, some of thier short comeings, is being " weak ", in one to one relations....and being weak in general, in societies that are not individualistic as themseleves !!!
These socities, require individuals to be " Round ", and versetile...and being able to accomedate, and being able to communicate, and tollerate,and survive !!!...............
American culture, is the culture of systems, and it is culture of " It is naive to talk ".....................very much what Majid believes !, .....they communicate by, never stateing opinions, and hence " never have any opinion ", totaly opposite to our culture !!....................
It is not that our opinionated culture is better....it is that ,in this particular charactoristic,American culture is a " weak " culture, as it can not stand the " heat " of Iranian multy-dimentional, challangeing, opinionated, interusive, argumentative,...and more importantly, deceptive..culture !!
In America.....You listen, and let the system do the walking.......in Iran, you talk your way to success !!

[zzgloo]

start pointing your guns towards the real Mozalat of our football. or we have to do it in a way that is not pleasantly suitable for the educated members such as yourself.

....is that a threat ?

I , have liked Mansoor's article, and have believed, Ghotbi has done disservice to our football, ........, but, I have not found anything wrong with , the arguments we have had regarding his article.......
Some defended it, and admired it, some critisized it, with respect and reletive logic ,with legitimate concerns !.......
We do not think the same, and thats the beauty of it !

[webmaster]

Thanks Kamran jan.....These are truly words of wisdom.

As a person who has dedicated a lot of your time , money and even sacrificed his social life for Iranian football , and continue to do so unabated , you are the most qualified person to address such issue.

Many people fail to see , or at least appreciate , the hardship and efforts that goes on behind the scene to offer services to Iranian football community , be it in the form of difficult projects such as websites like PFDC or TMDC , journalism, reserach or news gathering. Not only this is done without any monetary return , but it all comes out of our own hard earned money , our own pockets and our own time , just for the love of Iranian football.

Instead of recognition of such effrorts , you will always find the odd ones with "I don't care for you.." attitude , underming a person to a degree of personal insult becuse he dislikes the facts , dislike the opposing opinion , dislikes the person or all the aforementioned. Now , if such person had more knowledge , regular dealing with stake holders , more contact with the real football in Iran , then it is digestable. Regretably , the less information they have the more powerful and opininated they become.

As for the Football + forum , I very much support the idea that we must keep the high standard going and be more selective. This forum should be based on quality rather than quantity posting. I have no problem whatsover discussing issues and engage in arguments , but what upsets me to a certain degree is when people mix opinions with facts. Those who consider their point of views as FACTS and give themselves the liberty to personally attack and discredit the other(s) who don't agree with them.

I , once again , express my admiration for Mansoor on his great work , and consider him as an asset to this website and Iranian football in general.

Thanks Majeed jan. I am really proud to have you guys here.

[webmaster]

....is that a threat ?

No its not but it could be considered as a friendly warning. because this forum is moderate free but not to be mistaken with a private forum either as there must be some law and order to keep it clean.