Questions for Mansoor

[Ali Chicago]

Found it amazing that name calling in condemned and in an essance isn't what the open letter did??!!!!

[Ali Chicago]

This is the last interview he had "allegedly" with Javad Mahboob, before leaving Iran. You be the judge.

قطبي: اگر پرسپوليس به فينال ليگ قهرمانان آسيا برسد برمي*گردم
نويسنده : جواد محبوب

اينكه چرا در واپسين روزهاي حضور افشين قطبي در تهران، در چندين نوبت با او مصاحبه كرديم و چطور شد كه در اين روزها كنار او بوديم، بزرگترين و عجيب*ترين سوال اين روزهايمان است.
قطبي مي*دانست كه قرار است فوتبال ايران را ترك كند ولي ما هم مثل شما از همه جا بي*خبر بوديم و فقط از روي يك اتفاق بود كه پيش از سفر او به دوبي براي تهيه گزارش آخرين گفت*وگو را در تهران انجام داديم. گفت*وگويي كه به لطف دوربين محترم باشگاه خبرنگاران جوان نيز به تصوير كشيده شد.

شنيديم كه در جلسه با مسوولان باشگاه ليستي از مشكلات را تهيه كرده*اي و همين مسايل را جزو دلايل استعفايت از پرسپوليس اعلام كرده*اي؟
بله... يك ليستي را از مشكلاتي كه داشتم نوشتم و آن را به مسوولان باشگاه دادم. نمي*خواهم چيزي را بهانه كنم ولي من در ايران مشكلاتي داشتم كه تحمل آنها برايم سخت بود.

در مورد اين موضوع شنيديم كه قطع اينترنت، قطع شدن موبايل، *آماده نشدن ويزاي همسرتان، مشكلاتي كه بعد از بازي با صبا به*وجود آمد، پرداخت پول ماركو، جوسازي عليه دي*كارمو، مسايلي كه در مورد راننده*تان به*وجود آمد، باندبازي عليه شما و... به چشم مي*خورده است!
من يكسري مشكلات داشتم كه رفع آنها به مديران باشگاه برمي*گشت. اين اواخر اتفاقاتي افتاد كه براي من خيلي عجيب بود. من فكر مي*كنم كه بعضي*ها دلشان نمي*خواست من در ايران بمانم و موفق شوم. دلم نمي*خواهد از كسي نام ببرم ولي قرار نيست كه قطبي دو سال در ايران قهرمان شود.


We all witnessed the atmosphere around DiCarmo issue. We all also remmeber how Borhani can't finish for more than a few years. Does that make GN or other coaches Dalal, if they still play him?

Poeple talk about he is raking in Millions, apparently his mobile was disconnected and he didn't have internet connection? Adam dard roo be kee begheh akheh?

[BehzadB]

apparently (according to Ghotbi) his mobile was disconnected and he didn't have internet connection?

Ali jan, that part about Internet / Moblie..etc, is not from Ghotbi, it's from the Reporter who did the interview. it sounds to me it's the reporter talking to Ghotbi, not ghotbi to the reporter.


در مورد اين موضوع شنيديم كه قطع اينترنت، قطع شدن موبايل، *آماده نشدن ويزاي همسرتان، مشكلاتي كه بعد از بازي با صبا به*وجود آمد، پرداخت پول ماركو، جوسازي عليه دي*كارمو، مسايلي كه در مورد راننده*تان به*وجود آمد، باندبازي عليه شما و

[gol_kuchik]

Hamid Jan... I raised a certain issue about the question of fairness of a journalist in selecting the subject that he is comfortable with, so quiz me on this subject and argue that point. I am sure that Mansoor Agha is more than capable of answering the other parts if he wishes to.

I have my own views of the subject of Afshin Ghotbi that I believe; I have already covered in so many posts. It just makes little sense to repeat it again.

However, the subject of investigative journalism is the issue that I take an interest in and what is deemed as controversial and what is logical and acceptable or even ethical.

You mentioned the example of Ghotbi's girlfriend and his demands for expenses. So, you think that if I succumb to blackmail (since giving expenses to a spouse or a girlfriend is NOT part of the contract) indemnifies the blackmailer and incriminates me. And if a journalist found out about it and reports it, it is laughable!!!
The duty of a journalist is to report, he is not liable of the events and he/she does not create it. The journalist has the right to comment on the event , the way he/she finds it fit.

Despite your views, I found Mansoor’s piece of investigative journalism quite precious and honest. If you have any facts that counteract what was mentioned, then spell it out. Simply expressing your opinions about motives or labeling it as cheapest form of journalism, does not mean anything to me. Name-calling never enriches culture; it just typifies how (despite living in a western culture) some Iranians never change their hostile mentality against those who they do not agree with.

Maij Jan, of course everyone is free to choose the subject they want to pursue, journalists included.

But you seem to be saying Mansoor has chosen Ghotbi, really because he
is a low hanging fruite! The information is available, Mansoor is near by so
why not expose. By all means, if he has done something ILLEGAL he
must be exposed. So far, and I have read most of Mansoors posts on
this, the ONLY illegal thing I have seen of Ghotbi is that he might have
claimed a false association to U.S national team. I have not seen his
resume (and asked Mansoor to provide it, to no avail), so for all I know
Ghotbi may have exaggerated his role in an interview! But given his *post*U.S affiliation with Korea it sounds more like
impropriety than someting illegal. So as the ad went many decades ago: Where is the beef? What has Ghotbi done ILLEGALLY to deserve this?

What I also pointed to and unfortunately is ignored:

There are two parts to Mansoors attack:

1-Ghotbis action prior to becoming the coach of PP.
Here, if IFF/POE in their continued incompetence did not do proper digging,
after Mansoors expose last year, they would have supposedly had this
information. Why did they offer him the job of Perspolis this season?
Why did they go to Dubai to bring him back?

2-Ghotbis audacity (and you call this blackmail) to ask for things you
believe to be improper. Including hiring assisstants or players he wanted.
I am not sure why you and Mansoor both use the term blackmail so loosely. But to blackmail means to coerce someone to do something they
would not do. The hypothetical example I gave (Mansoor asking you for
200,000k ...) was to underline IF you don't think Mansoor is worth it, you
would not give in to his demand.
What will be the most he can do? Not to work for you? Correct? This my friend in no way constitute blackmail. It is called to bargain or negotiate.

If Mansoor is not aware of this meaning perhaps he should not use it in his
letter. But what would Ghotbi have done to Hedayati, had Hedayati not accepted Ghotbis terms? To say I will quit is not equal to blackmail.
Very simple. Quitting, is a right anyone has, when working for someone else, same
way the employer can fire a coach at anytime.

I said laughable because if there is a breach of contract, then Ghotbi should
be taken to FIFA court. What does open letter do? If Mansoor does not
know the basics of writing an open letter, in addition to writing such letters
to a public forum, he should have included either an e-mail address,
or a real home/office/CO address to at least make sure the recepient
will get it and can respond. Now are we positive Ghotbi is a regular on the
+ forum?

Maij jan, in the entire post of Mansoor, you do not see a single mention of
the word: ALLEGEDLY This simple word is used both in court of law and
by investigative journalist to say: ok, here's what is said about the defendent, but he is innocent until proven guilty. And the guilty proof does not come because of how one *may feel* or *have overheard* or *his
sources told him*. That is why there is court system.

Any serious journalist like Moyer, would provide ample list of reference and
sources to back up their claims.


As it stands, I can not express how disappointed I am with Mansoors work, (and
as a fan of his work).
Not because of Ghotbi. As I had said, the only affinity I have for Ghotbi
is that he is an Iranian-American, I hope the bridge between the two great
countries are built again and if he did his job well and if he was treated well
that would only be a good thing for all of us. Other than that, I neither know
much about him nor care to.

But my issue is, rather than taking the bull by the horn, Mansoor has instead emulated the
cheap sports tabloid, which are dime a dozen in Iran and turned this whole thing into
obsession with a coach, and worse the personal life of a coach.

[maij]

Hamid jan.
Like I said, my issue is to defend a journalist freedom in what he decides to investigate based on his hunch, interest, knowledge and what have you. I disagree with the notion that others have to tell him what subjects he should take and what and how he should express himself.

This is primarily my issue, not what details was mentioned or what was omitted. This is up to Mansoor to reveal, answer or argue . All I can say in general is that some journalists elect not to reveal all their sources to the public, and that is a privilege of every journalist in the world. (Criminal cases have different rules)

On the issue of blackmail ( or audacity as you wish to put it) , again the intent was to highlight the right of the journalist to report it. Whether Mr. X or Mr. Y is guilty or should be incriminated, is another issue.

I am not in a position to judge on contracts and breaches of , herewith , since I have no clue about contents and anything I say will be pure speculation and frankly , there has been much too much speculation around here to last me a lifetime without adding further speculative opinion.

What I and others can comment in on are factual events. Departure of Ghotbi or his resignation is a fact. If you are interested on my view about his departure, then her it is.

I have a mixed feeling.

Ghotbi has been under pressure and was ordered to do a few things against his will. According to his statement , he did not want another defender , yet right under his nose they signed Rahman Rezaei to undermine him. To me that is a legitimate reason for him to leave because that is a directly undermining his authority in the team. On the other hand , He (Ghotbi) has stated several times that he is a professional coach and he has to face lots of hardship. So, why did he quit then? He expected lots of hardship and already experienced quite a few problems one whole season of it , it just seems odd that suddenly , he is not that professional if he wants to quit.

I said that as one example. Obviously there are many other reasons that may not be obvious to the outsiders. Internal disagreement, in fighting within faction inside the club, resentment amongst some players, social life …there are many other factors that we don’t know about.

But what is the biggest disappointment in Ghotbi , from my point of view? This person brought a breath of fresh air into Iranian football last season by his statements. However, he soon “Did what the Romans do” this season, taking away that exclusivity of his. Otherwise, the guy is NOT exactly an accomplished coach and I doubt that he will be a great coach anytime soon.

So that fact he says something and does another leaves a lot of question marks about his character.

[Ali Chicago]

So that fact he says something and does another leaves a lot of question marks about his character.

I agree with this part of your post until the very last word "Character". Ghotbi isnt' a martyr, not a social activist, he is an average Joe coach and will be an Average Joe coach. He wants to make money have a comfy life, etc. etc. We don't know all the facts, so questioning his character is a bit too much. Imgine if you or I were put in situations that we need to make decisions that will impact our personal life (wife, gf, kids, etc.), despite our belief. A hero might make that sacrifice, but Heros are few and far in between. From Arash kamangheer to Babak to few others. Ghotbi wasn't a hero, he was just an Average Joe coach, who wanted to make money. In this process he brought with himself new ways and introduced our current coaches, fans and players to new ways. I think that was a positive thing.

There was the danger when people started to call him Emperor!!!! To expect the man be something he wasn't. I don't know if you read the book about trail of Galileo in the Vatican when he was accused of heresy "when he said Earth isn't the center of universe". He succumbed and denied his claim in order to stay alive. He supposedly said "God has merci to the people who need a hero". This is story of our nation Majid Agha. God have merci to our football and to our country that it seems both of them need Heros (already have a sultan, General, Shahreya and most recently had an Emperor).

[maij]

I agree with this part of your post until the very last word "Character". Ghotbi isnt' a martyr, not a social activist, he is an average Joe coach and will be an Average Joe coach. He wants to make money have a comfy life, etc. etc. We don't know all the facts, so questioning his character is a bit too much. Imgine if you or I were put in situations that we need to make decisions that will impact our personal life (wife, gf, kids, etc.), despite our belief. A hero might make that sacrifice, but Heros are few and far in between. From Arash kamangheer to Babak to few others. Ghotbi wasn't a hero, he was just an Average Joe coach, who wanted to make money. In this process he brought with himself new ways and introduced our current coaches, fans and players to new ways. I think that was a positive thing.

Ali Jan , I don't see what other of his attributes I can refer to except for his character. I mean , I can't question his motive nor his inside feelings. character being the inherent complex of attributes that determines a persons moral and ethical actions and reactions; is the only thing that is obvious to me.

There was the danger when people started to call him Emperor!!!! To expect the man be something he wasn't. I don't know if you read the book about trail of Galileo in the Vatican when he was accused of heresy "when he said Earth isn't the center of universe". He succumbed and denied his claim in order to stay alive. He supposedly said "God has merci to the people who need a hero". This is story of our nation Majid Agha. God have merci to our football and to our country that it seems both of them need Heros (already have a sultan, General, Shahreya and most recently had an Emperor).

That is definitely the case.

I actually don't have anything against people having an "Idol" or an "icon" provided the person deserves this by virtue of his accomplishment , achievements , service to the nation , history ethics and morale. In Ghotbi's case , a lot of such attributes were missing and there was a lot of hype and unrealistic wishful thinking.

I agree that in Iran , people are far much quicker to create heroes , some justified while many are not. Interestingly , I also believe that the same nation is even quicker in character assassination.

[Ali Chicago]

That is definitely the case.

I actually don't have anything against people having an "Idol" or an "icon" provided the person deserves this by virtue of his accomplishment , achievements , service to the nation , history ethics and morale. In Ghotbi's case , a lot of such attributes were missing and there was a lot of hype and unrealistic wishful thinking.

I agree that in Iran , people are far much quicker to create heroes , some justified while many are not. Interestingly , I also believe that the same nation is even quicker in character assassination.

There is a saying in Farsi that goes something like this. Tabe Tond zood forookesh meekoneh or ba yek khorma gharmeesh meekoneh ba yek maviz sardeesh. Hala the folks who makes a hero out of someone in such a short time, eventually have to resort to character assansination when the person turns out not the Messaijah they thought he was.

[gol_kuchik]

Hamid Jan... I raised a certain issue about the question of fairness of a journalist in selecting the subject that he is comfortable with, so quiz me on this subject and argue that point. I am sure that Mansoor Agha is more than capable of answering the other parts if he wishes to.

I have my own views of the subject of Afshin Ghotbi that I believe; I have already covered in so many posts. It just makes little sense to repeat it again.

However, the subject of investigative journalism is the issue that I take an interest in and what is deemed as controversial and what is logical and acceptable or even ethical.

You mentioned the example of Ghotbi's girlfriend and his demands for expenses. So, you think that if I succumb to blackmail (since giving expenses to a spouse or a girlfriend is NOT part of the contract) indemnifies the blackmailer and incriminates me. And if a journalist found out about it and reports it, it is laughable!!!
The duty of a journalist is to report, he is not liable of the events and he/she does not create it. The journalist has the right to comment on the event , the way he/she finds it fit.

Despite your views, I found Mansoor’s piece of investigative journalism quite precious and honest. If you have any facts that counteract what was mentioned, then spell it out. Simply expressing your opinions about motives or labeling it as cheapest form of journalism, does not mean anything to me. Name-calling never enriches culture; it just typifies how (despite living in a western culture) some Iranians never change their hostile mentality against those who they do not agree with.

We are in complete agreement there that a journalist have to have the freedom to select and investigate what he finds important enough to
investigate. On the other hand, as a consumer of these reports, we too
have a right to wonder the reason a particular subject is given added
attention over so many others. I am sure you agree Majid jan, both in
official Iranian as well as mainstream U.S media, one often gets a sense
he is being manipulated by what is reported:
In mainstream U.S media, we are told who is good and who is evil and
in Iranian official media, we dont hear anything negative about Iran and
mismanagement. So as an skeptical individual (which I think many of
us fit into that category), I try to review the news I am fed, to
see if I had gotten a both end of the story. Typically that means,
attempting to get news particularly on controversial issues from multiple
sources. That way as Peymon said, I would get a balanced input.

One thing I have come to understand (thanks to my age) is seldom anything
is black and white. At best you have 55-45 but often 60-40 or even less coverage of one side over another. But whenever someone tries to portray their opponent as 100% pure evil, then watch out. That's a big red flag
for me. Unfortunately with Mansoors recent coverage of Ghotbi, I have a
distinct sense of just getting one side of story, and therefore my labeling
his work as bad journalism. Everytime he writes about Ghotbi, he gives
me a feeling like he is on a religious mission: To save humanity from
this evil coach. This gets to the point where if you agree with him, you
have seen the light and if you don't you are either part of a grand conspiracy
or just hopeless. Do you see a middle ground?

As far as character, I can always quote Charles Barkley the NBA great:
Sports figures are not role models, parents are. So Ghotbi does not
have a good character why all the fuss?

[perspolees]

excellent thread.
I dont even understand what the whole gig is here!?
if pro footballers can ask for this and that for their girlfriends why cant coaches? In fact they do every day then why this one becomes and issue?

fact is ghotbi won the league in Iran. In that environment working is not easy.
He left the team with the least possible hashiye and in an acute manner rather than starting a frictional war.
there are so many details and unknowns and he said she said that no one could come up with a factual sentece. If you put a jury in the box and present all this he said she said who could make any sense of it let alone have a vedict!!?

[BehzadB]

excellent thread.
I dont even understand what the whole gig is here!?
if pro footballers can ask for this and that for their girlfriends why cant coaches? In fact they do every day then why this one becomes and issue?
fact is ghotbi won the league in Iran. In that environment working is not easy.
He left the team with the least possible hashiye and in an acute manner rather than starting a frictional war.
there are so many details and unknowns and he said she said that no one could come up with a factual sentece. If you put a jury in the box and present all this he said she said who could make any sense of it let alone have a vedict!!?

fully agree.

[Hajagha]

Which could or could not exist) , or heaven forbids create some fictitious ones ?


Since Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein exposed Nixon in watergate ; to maintain credibility and integrity , should both of them have done similar investigative act on Ford , Reagan , Bush Snr. , Clinton , Bush Jr. and soon on Obama?
Else the whole thing is not fair and balanced?

I think he is asking for Mansoor's motive. The other journalists, as you mentioned did it for money and fame. Is it the case here too? Or the "pure love of he country"?

Majid jan, I have not been very active in the forum and missed many posts, honestly, when I have read the other post, I was surprised, shockingly surprised.

Cheers,

[Mansoor]

wow! I don't know if I should laugh or cry about this. I rather cry because this is so sad. It is so sad to see where we stand. It is so sad to see all the efforts to inform people and their perspective, focuse, and concern. To focus on me!? This is getting so educational for me. Do we deserve these things? I never thought I reached this conclusion but perhaps yes.

Agha Majid and Agha Javad, I am not sure if this was worth your time but many thanks not only for the time and effort to explain a subject that may seem to many as trivial, but to show me there is still hope for me to hang around.

Any how, I am not sure the need for new thread on this but the subject in question was answered in it's thread, and will be answered one more time in the same thread. Hope fully today, and hopefully for the last time.

[maij]

We are in complete agreement there that a journalist have to have the freedom to select and investigate what he finds important enough to
investigate. On the other hand, as a consumer of these reports, we too
have a right to wonder the reason a particular subject is given added
attention over so many others. I am sure you agree Majid jan, both in
official Iranian as well as mainstream U.S media, one often gets a sense
he is being manipulated by what is reported:
In mainstream U.S media, we are told who is good and who is evil and
in Iranian official media, we dont hear anything negative about Iran and
mismanagement. So as an skeptical individual (which I think many of
us fit into that category), I try to review the news I am fed, to
see if I had gotten a both end of the story. Typically that means,
attempting to get news particularly on controversial issues from multiple
sources. That way as Peymon said, I would get a balanced input.

One thing I have come to understand (thanks to my age) is seldom anything
is black and white. At best you have 55-45 but often 60-40 or even less coverage of one side over another. But whenever someone tries to portray their opponent as 100% pure evil, then watch out. That's a big red flag
for me. Unfortunately with Mansoors recent coverage of Ghotbi, I have a
distinct sense of just getting one side of story, and therefore my labeling
his work as bad journalism. Everytime he writes about Ghotbi, he gives
me a feeling like he is on a religious mission: To save humanity from
this evil coach. This gets to the point where if you agree with him, you
have seen the light and if you don't you are either part of a grand conspiracy
or just hopeless. Do you see a middle ground?

As far as character, I can always quote Charles Barkley the NBA great:
Sports figures are not role models, parents are. So Ghotbi does not
have a good character why all the fuss?

[maij]

wow! I don't know if I should laugh or cry about this. I rather cry because this is so sad. It is so sad to see where we stand. It is so sad to see all the efforts to inform people and their perspective, focuse, and concern. To focus on me!? This is getting so educational for me. Do we deserve these things? I never thought I reached this conclusion but perhaps yes.

Agha Majid and Agha Javad, I am not sure if this was worth your time but many thanks not only for the time and effort to explain a subject that may seem to many as trivial, but to show me there is still hope for me to hang around.

Any how, I am not sure the need for new thread on this but the subject in question was answered in it's thread, and will be answered one more time in the same thread. Hope fully today, and hopefully for the last time.

Mansoor Jan.... What I find here does not really surprise me. I am used to being asked why I support Daei and perhaps down deep inside , those who pose such questions want to prove that Daei paid for my Range Rover and my Mercedes Benz in exchange for my support !

When people start questioning motives , one can simply respond by saying the same thing "What is the motives behind questioning my motives???!!!" , it will run like a never ending circle , at which the actual events and the issue is lost.

The fact that Ghotbi has never been a Professional Head Coach suddenly seem oblivious to some , yet questioning his credential for coaching one of the top teams in Iran (and heaven forbids , Team Melli,