Questions for Mansoor

[maij]

I think he is asking for Mansoor's motive. The other journalists, as you mentioned did it for money and fame. Is it the case here too? Or the "pure love of he country"?

Nah Azizam.... I did not mention that the other journalist did it for money and fame , although that is a distinct possibility.

Do I have to know everyone motive ? and even so , Do I trust that everyone is telling me the full truth behind their motives? What do I achieve by questioning the motive of "BBC" reporting the first news about unrest in Iran in 1979 , or CNN's breaking news of the explosion heard in WTC in September 11? Does motive make a huge difference on the issue? What is vital "the subject" or motive behind the expose ?


I don't know what others think about this issue , I certainly know where I stand.

Majid jan, I have not been very active in the forum and missed many posts, honestly, when I have read the other post, I was surprised, shockingly surprised.

Cheers,

I don't quite get the Shockingly surprised bit...What was the shocking part?

[gol_kuchik]

.....I think he is asking for Mansoor's motive.....
Cheers,

No Hagjagha, if you look through all my posts I never made this about
Mansoor's motives. To me it seems as we say in Persain, Khoon Joloyeh
Cheshmash ro Gerefteh.

Since Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein exposed Nixon in watergate ; to maintain credibility and integrity , should both of them have done similar investigative act on Ford , Reagan , Bush Snr. , Clinton , Bush Jr. and soon on Obama?
Else the whole thing is not fair and balanced?

I think now I understand were you coming from (I overlooked this until I
saw this in Hagjaghas thread).

You are comparing Watergate and Woodwards journalism to expose Nixson,
something that changed the course of American politics to a coach like
Ghotbi and how he may have done wrong doing in his persoanl professional
life. I think Mansoor is using certainly the same type of passion in his
expression. Except for the level of wrong doing.

But Maij jan, I would assure you if anyone tried to bash Ali Daei by
attacking him about his personal life I will be the first to write about it
just as I am doing now, not for Ghotbi but for misguided journalism.
================================================== ======

Mansoor, I did not write in your thread because it is addressed to Ghotbi
as an open letter. I am your best friend, because I challenge you to
improve yourself as a journalist, --As a critical reader of your
writing-- and absolutely as an observer. The specifics do matter.

If you want to expose Ghotbi for his wrong doings, mismanagement of
funds, paying a player a lot more than he deserves, hiring an assisstant
who is not qualified or ANYTHING that has to with his Professional
Competence as a coach, or his Misuse of his power as a coach, please
please write it up in Detail. I will be the first to applaud you for that
type of work.

To dig dirt about someones personal life, like how many years he has not
been in Iran, or if he has left his wife Never Ever makes you a good
journalist, nor does it make your point any stronger. To simply dismiss
someone as Dallal or be involved with a gang when the whole football is run by various gangs seems like missing the point.

Overall, I view Ghotbi as a nobody when it comes to grand scale of
Football misdeeds in Iran. Did you forget the same Perspolis lost 6
points for exactly mismanaging contracts with coaches and palyers last
year?
What was the lesson from that? Hire Ghotbi, with even worse terms for
the club?

You seem to forget, Ghotbi was called "Emperor" by --leaders who were
told/paid by their mismanagement to do so one day, and the next they threw
bottle at the "Emperor".

I think your emphsis on Ghotbi is misplaced, not because he shouldn't be
investigated, but because he is a small fish in much bigger tank. And if you
did, you will find those who hired him more responsible than him.

At this point, I have exhausted all I can say.

[maij]

No Hagjagha, if you look through all my posts I never made this about Mansoor's motives. To me it seems as we say in Persain, Khoon Joloyeh
Cheshmash ro Gerefteh.


I think now I understand were you coming from (I overlooked this until I
saw this in Hagjaghas thread).

You are comparing Watergate and Woodwards journalism to expose Nixson,
something that changed the course of American politics to a coach like
Ghotbi and how he may have done wrong doing in his persoanl professional
life. I think Mansoor is using certainly the same type of passion in his
expression. Except for the level of wrong doing.

No Hamid Agha...I did not make a comparison between the two cases. I mentioned the watergate saga as an example in the context of why should a journalist be required to follow the similar investigation on the rest of the US Presidents. Not as comparing the importance of the two stories.

BTW: Are you saying that Woodward & Bernstein , knew that he will change the history of the world? I stll have the book (All the president's men) ,somewhere in my library, it has been a long time since I read it...but I cannot remember if he made such a claim.

But Maij jan, I would assure you if anyone tried to bash Ali Daei by
attacking him about his personal life I will be the first to write about it
just as I am doing now, not for Ghotbi but for misguided journalism.

OK....you are mentioning one aspect of the issue, which only Mansoor is qualified to respond to.

However, my personal view in general (rather than specific to Ghotbi's case) is that peripheral events should not create a diversion which could lead to the dilution of the main case.
I believe they call it a "Technicality" in American law, where people like O.J. Simpson practically and literally got away with murder.

The other point about the private life of a person, I fully agree that the invasion of privacy should not be attempted unless such information is necessary to expose that person behavior and portray his decency and ethics. A person who commits adultery or is a child molester, for example, will not hold the same ethical value of a person who is straight with a normal decent private life.

Disclaimer: I am not accusing Ghotbi of any such ill behavior; I am merely stating an example.

[Hajagha]

I don't quite get the Shockingly surprised bit...What was the shocking part?

[Hajagha]

No Hagjagha, if you look through all my posts I never made this about
Mansoor's motives. To me it seems as we say in Persain, Khoon Joloyeh
Cheshmash ro Gerefteh.

My bad, sorry. I said "I think" though.

Well, going after Ghotbi in such a fashion, I assume raise such a question no matter what. I guess Mansoor khan must prepare hiself for such a question anyway.

Cheers,

[maij]

Maybe you have been exposed to this kind of environment for a long time and get used to it. Since, this was my first topic about Ghotbi, it was just quite shocking for me. Particularly, it came from PFDC staff, high rank and mature staff.

Shocking since we never had any beef against private life in PFDC. I remember we were closing down/removing some threads about private lives of Iranian football pro's, do you remember that? Do you remember removing Kia’s picture with that German model? Or Minavand situation in shomal?

I also remember, you were more of a buffer for heated members against AFC/Arabs/ref's/... and trying to cool them down with some words of wisdom and showing the normality in the world of football and trying to keep every thing in the green field.

Is it nowadays you are either Daei’s side or Ghotbi’s side? Well, I am no where, I am in Haji’s side.

Well, coming from that environment and seeing such a post is shocking, isn't it?

Cheers,

Hmmmm.... I fail to see where I have advocated what you imply , or to put it clearly , where did I say that I advocate or support the invasion of people's privacy.


I also fail to see where have I , or anybody else for that matter, has turned the forum into (Pro Daei , Anti Ghotbi) or (Pro Ghotbi Anti Daei) factions.

I fail to relate the issue of Ghotbi to Daei.

Sorry Faramarz Jan, I truely don't understand your shocking feeling in this thread. Admittedly , the emotions had ran high , but agreeing with one side does not necessarily mean the animosity of the other.

Perhaps I have not my self very clear , but I still remain the same old person and maintain my principles.

[Hajagha]

Hmmmm.... I fail to see where I have advocated what you imply , or to put it clearly , where did I say that I advocate or support the invasion of people's privacy.

Not you buddy, of course not you. When I said mature staff, I meant Mansoor khan.

You are the good old (in a good way) Maij I have always known.

You asked me why you were shocked, I explained why. Maybe I should see a Doc, maybe my "Menophase" is close and my eyes become wide for lack of hormons.

[maij]

Not you buddy, of course not you. When I said mature staff, I meant Mansoor khan.

You are the good old (in a good way) Maij I have always known.

You asked me why you were shocked, I explained why. Maybe I should see a Doc, maybe my "Menophase" is close and my eyes become wide for lack of hormons.

Thanks Faramarz Jan , I got a bit worried there ...

[zzgloo]

WOW....................
This thread along with its sister thread ( who is worse than animal ?...etc ) have been the most interesting threads, in all my ,close to 4 years , here ,on PFDC !!!!
And thanks to Mansoor !!!for being the initiator !!!
And, I must say, all is good, and everybody is doing great !!!!
.................................................. ................................................

Here are some interesting issues that has been going on on this thread and its sister ( Who is animal ? etc!!! by mansoor );
.....................

1-Some of MODs ,for the first time, are openly, in disagreement, on a grand magnitude !!!( Maij vs hajagha.....mansoor vs hadi......hajagha vs mansoor.....,maij vs levietaan........etc,etc )

2-We see In MODS, such issues as
the independence, loyality vs principle, being opinionated,being wrong,PFDC team work vs priciples , etc,etc.....

3- Some members, also have pushed thier rights as members, to critisize, and demand higher quality from MODS, as well as not allowing the MODS to take them for granted .

4-Some members ,may also have taken the advantage to ,rub it in ,the criticism, to corner MODS !


5-All this is going to finish....as MODS are going kiss each other, and let it go,as well as promising to discuss such issues in Staff forums ,only,from now !!

6- Thanks to authenticity of some MODS , such as Mansoor,hajagha,& hadi, whom seem to be not affaried of consiquences,and move ahead with thier opinions !, even if it may not be Poletcialy correct for PFDC !

.................................................. .............................................

I love it here......everything is direct result of a free forum !, and freedom of speech !!, along with mutual respect !!!
thanks to all of you !!

[Mansoor]

Mansoor, I did not write in your thread because it is addressed to Ghotbi
as an open letter. I am your best friend, because I challenge you to
improve yourself as a journalist, --As a critical reader of your
writing-- and absolutely as an observer. The specifics do matter.

I respectfully reject your offer for friendship sir. As we say, with five more friends like you, I certainly wouldn't need enemy.

You have been a huge disappointment in my book for your attempt to divert my hours of work from a critical and serious issue in our football. I will have more to say on this but for now I must say that your type of mentality that shoots the messenger rather than focusing on real issues (with bias look while accusing biasness), is beyond words for me to explain. The moment I am convinced most football fans think like you I guarantee you to be gone for good and turn the lights off, and let you guys "khosh bashin" with what is coming to you.

More on this soon.

====

haj agha, please refer to posts 16 and 45 in the actual thread for your questions.

====

Agha Shayan my appology to miss your name. Many thanks for your effort to clarify points.

[Hajagha]

====
haj agha, please refer to posts 16 and 45 in the actual thread for your questions.
====

Thanks, I read them.

[Hadi]

I'm off to get some gold to write these words in...brb

[Doctor DOOM]

after a cursory look at some posts, I must say I agree with many here that in a football forum with football related discussions and structure, delving into ppl's personal lives must be a "No-no" ... no matter how good or how evil they may be. no matter how favored or demonized they are in our football.

lets expose ppl or bring them down and criticize them based on FOOTBALL related issues. that shd be the boundary.
beyond that, it takes an ugly turn .....

In football related stuff, I would chime in and actually enjoy a nice public lynching.
.... as long as it stays within the boundaries of the sport.

[Mansoor]

The subject in this redundant thread has been responded in depth in original thread here

http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...1&postcount=50

[zzgloo]

The subject in this redundant thread has been responded in depth in original thread here
http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...1&postcount=50

"
Mansoor,Jaan... I have a suggestion !!
Some members here, are totaly ignoreing many valid points you have had, regarding Ghotbi and the Mafia's within our football system...and how we should, take notice of those......
I believe, you had more important points in mind, than insulting Ghotbi's personalities..................
I would like you to admit, " you may have come accross as charactor assasin ",and once and for all, put this issue at rest !!!........................, since, so many respected members , without any hidden agendas , have felt as you may have used unethical methods to explain your points ....It would be very wise of you, to end this issue, by , distansing yourself from any charactor assasinations....
Just say : " I did not mean any such thing, and if it appeared that way, I am sorry !! "
.................................................. .................................................. ..............................................

ps,
Ghotbi's, American weak charactor, could not accomedate iranian culture, within the country, ...and he showed his disabilities to live within the scociety by insulting every aspect of the culture.....
.He failed to , put aside, his " Gharb Zadeh" elianetd culture, and do as Romans do in " Rome "...so he had to blame it to the culture, and the people, and the media, and the system.......
He left, so many fans disappointed, and packed his bags with lots of money,and championship cup,... without liveing up to his duties ...and left the country, while blameing his shortcomeing on the Iranian Culture !.....

Ghotbi, proved, everything he had said about profesionality, was a boloney !!!