Ashjari

[Martin-Reza]

Well, Ashjari also gave 2 horrific false passes today and additionally he once slided half a meter past the ball and opened our left defensive side completely to the advancing Chinese, who fortunately could be stopped by other Iranian players.

I must say this is about the amount of bullshit I expect from Zare in the same time as well, so I meanwhile have to say I am almost completely indifferent which of the two will play. They are roughly on the same level, LB remains a weakpoint, but we now at least have two one-eyed among the blind available for this position.

[purple_haze]

IMHO Ashjari did cotribute more offensively today and that's at least something positive. I don't rate him on the same level as Zare, but slightly better. He's a true lefty and has good crosses (the first goal). Even if we say they are on the same level at defense, Zare has been pretty much useless in offense, while Ashjari has contributed more in far less games he's been playing, although still nearly not convincingly enough. But I think he's gonna settle and gain confidense if allowed more playing time at TM and he'll be contributing a lot more offensively then, because he's got the potential.

Another thing that came to my mind was that on the right side, although coming on very late, Heydari contributed and worked as much offensively as Kaebi+Gholamnejad combined. There's huge potential in this guy. I wish he'd get more playing time. I think he's better and more accurate at crossing than both Kaebi and Gholamnejad.

[Masoud_A]

A goal assist from a corner kick, atleast we now know we have a good corner kick taker.

[Hajagha]

IMHO Ashjari did cotribute more offensively today and that's at least something positive.

Same here. I think he did OK today, I saw him running overlap. He also covered the second post pretty good (some thing Kaebi never does). He is, overall, more comfortable on the ball than Zare.

He is getting better and better and that's positive.

[IranJavidan]

IMHO Ashjari did cotribute more offensively today and that's at least something positive. I don't rate him on the same level as Zare, but slightly better. He's a true lefty and has good crosses (the first goal). Even if we say they are on the same level at defense, Zare has been pretty much useless in offense, while Ashjari has contributed more in far less games he's been playing, although still nearly not convincingly enough. But I think he's gonna settle and gain confidense if allowed more playing time at TM and he'll be contributing a lot more offensively then, because he's got the potential.

Another thing that came to my mind was that on the right side, although coming on very late, Heydari contributed and worked as much offensively as Kaebi+Gholamnejad combined. There's huge potential in this guy. I wish he'd get more playing time. I think he's better and more accurate at crossing than both Kaebi and Gholamnejad.

I've said this before, Khosro Heydari is the new Mahdavikia. He has superb technique, is a team player, crosses well with both feet, and is full of stamina. Above all, he's very CONSISTENT. I'm not at all worried about Mehdi retiring from TM now that we have Heydari.

[shayan20]

^^
true, Heydari is exceptionally good.
even when ss are playing bad, he's the stand out still.

[Martin-Reza]

I've said this before, Khosro Heydari is the new Mahdavikia. He has superb technique, is a team player, crosses well with both feet, and is full of stamina. Above all, he's very CONSISTENT. I'm not at all worried about Mehdi retiring from TM now that we have Heydari.

I really don't think Heydari is or ever will be close to Mahdavikia. I prefer Shojaei, Khalatbari or Gholamnejad over him.

[Doctor DOOM]

I really don't think Heydari is or ever will be close to Mahdavikia. I prefer Shojaei, Khalatbari or Gholamnejad over him.

... also lets not forget aghili, hosseini, khalili, and talebloo or mehdi rahmati.

[Martin-Reza]

... also lets not forget aghili, hosseini, khalili, and talebloo or mehdi rahmati.

Nice try about "natural" position, but each of the players I named is at least very comfortable and useful in a right midfield or rightwing position.

I'm even becoming a bigger fan of Gholamnejad every week. He's really a clever player with good technique and good defensive qualities as well. He also is a "natural" right midfielder btw.

[IranJavidan]

I really don't think Heydari is or ever will be close to Mahdavikia. I prefer Shojaei, Khalatbari or Gholamnejad over him.

I don't know if Khalatbari is a natural side midfielder, same with Shojaei. But as a SB or SWB, Heydari is one of the best players Iran has to offer for the position. He is offensively superior to Kaabi, and unfortunately, I was unable to watch the ends of the China game where he got subbed in. But I didn't see anything significant from Gholamnejad at all in the China game.

Have you been watching Esteghlal's games?

[Doctor DOOM]

heh.
neither shojaei, khalatbari nor gholamnejad are "natural" flank mids.

the problem is we "see" them placed in those posts in TM and suddenly we think "oh, THAT's where they are natural at"!!!!! ( example; zareh as LB )

G-nejad is a DEFENDER. his wide plays in this game was non-existent.
now how does that make him a "flank mid" is beyond me.

as for khalatbari and shojaei ... well, we've seen enough of these guys to know where and how they play and where they are most efficient as well as which zones they fall short.
now, if we have other matters riding OVER the matter, then it's a different thing.

Heidari, on the other hand IS USED TO flank plays and performances.
among all the names mentioned, HE is the most natural for the right flank. he's been turning out good performances at paas, before SS even.
I'd add kazemian to the fray as his game is second to Kia only. but for his statements ..... sigh!

[Martin-Reza]

I don't know if Khalatbari is a natural side midfielder, same with Shojaei. But as a SB or SWB, Heydari is one of the best players Iran has to offer for the position. He is offensively superior to Kaabi, and unfortunately, I was unable to watch the ends of the China game where he got subbed in. But I didn't see anything significant from Gholamnejad at all in the China game.

Have you been watching Esteghlal's games?

I watched almost all SS games this season, like every season, and I wasn't impressed too much by him. I had high hopes when I saw him in TO first, but to me he is nothing special. I don't think he is superior to Kaebi in any aspect.

Don't get me wrong, I still think he is above average for IPL, but my prediction is he will never become a fixed starter in TM. If he becomes a second Kia anyway, I won't complain for sure.

heh.
neither shojaei, khalatbari nor gholamnejad are "natural" flank mids.

the problem is we "see" them placed in those posts in TM and suddenly we think "oh, THAT's where they are natural at"!!!!! ( example; zareh as LB )

G-nejad is a DEFENDER. his wide plays in this game was non-existent.
now how does that make him a "flank mid" is beyond me.

as for khalatbari and shojaei ... well, we've seen enough of these guys to know where and how they play and where they are most efficient as well as which zones they fall short.
now, if we have other matters riding OVER the matter, then it's a different thing.

Heidari, on the other hand IS USED TO flank plays and performances.
among all the names mentioned, HE is the most natural for the right flank. he's been turning out good performances at paas, before SS even.
I'd add kazemian to the fray as his game is second to Kia only. but for his statements ..... sigh!

Forget "natural". Is Messi a natural rightwinger? Surely not, but he is world class in this position. So I don't mind what the natural position is, I just care if a player is good in a certain position, and if he is, I'm fine.

Gholamnedjad, like Kaebi, Zare and Ashjari, is a midfielder. Like the others his abilities allow him to play as fullback as well. But Gholamnejad's natural position is right midfield.

Even Heydari is mostly not used in his natural position. He is also a right midfielder, but plays rightback in a 3-5-2 at SS and now came on as right fullback for 10 mins against China. He played in Kaebi's position the great 10 mins he is praised for. Baoo played as right midfielder in front of him.

But those positions are pretty similar and many players are flexible enough to play in several positions. Nikbakht played everything from left fullback over leftback and left midfield up to left winger and central forward in his career.

Or Bagheri. He was used as sweeper, centerback, DM, OM and even nokeh hamleh striker at Arminia Bielefeld. It is not important what the natural position is. When his natural position was occupied and he still could be useful in other positions, he was used there.

If I have a satisfyingly fast, technically superb, almost two-footed player like Shojaei or Karimi in his prime, there are many positions in different tactical concepts I can use him in. And when those players happen to be still stronger in their second best position than other's in their best position, why not use them there?

So the discussion should be, is eg. Khalatbari as leftwinger better than Hajsafi in the moment, regardless of their natural position? I think Hajsafi is currently not winning this duel.

[Doctor DOOM]

when we have to resort to comparisons between our players ( notice the standard of development at IRAN ) and world stars ( whose development and football education is years beyond us ) , I know we're threading on very thin ice.
LOL

If messi can do it, so gholamnejad or shojaei can also !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hoe-kay.


somehow I'm not surprised by this line of "argument & defense".
it was the same attitude used to defend the use of 4-2-3-1 !
"If france and Italy can do it, so can Iran" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
thank god we wisened up to this one.

========================

again , just becoz we "see" players placed in certain posts, that DOES NOT MEAN they are good at it.
niki as LB is horrible. but we've "seen" him placed there.
zandi was used as LB also , to the same result.
sadeghi was used as RM, to the same result.
and so on , so forth.

I dont know why we refuse to "watch & observe" the style of a player to see what he is able to do and what he isnt. what he delivers and what he doesnt. ... etc .
Heydari IS a good RM.
at SS, he's NOT used as a right back, coz in 3-5-2, those are wingers or pistons on the flanks. these guys travel up & down the touchline, which means even in the opponent's 1/3rd they use the width well and stretch the defense.
something that none of gholamnejad, shojaei , khalatbari, sadeghi, ando , ... can do.
but guys like kia, kazemian, heydari, kaabi, ... CAN.

===================

then, with players like khalatbari or shojaei or ... there is the matter of their defensive capabilities ( unless we want to twist the reality even more and say "they dont need to defend" ! ) which is quite poor.
so if we use such players in flanks, then it is natural to see we lose the flanks to the opponents and be even more suspect along those zones.
now if that pleases us as long as we "persist with our ideas", then there's no point in any discussion.

[Martin-Reza]

The are thousands of such examples, I'm just taking world stars so everyone can follow the argument. I can also talk about Leitgeb of Red Bull Salzburg, but who the hell would know him. It is sth common, not sth only the best of the best can do. Camacho is using Shojaei as RM and LM repeatedly.

====================

They might have been horrible there, but still they were one of the best solutions, just like Zare was for a while and now Ashjari might be.

And Gholamnejad definitely can, he is a NATURAL RM.

Also Khalatbari and Shojaei can to a certain extent, they only might be defensively less capeable than eg. Kaebi or Heydari, but on the other hand are much more dangerous upfront.

===========================

lol, I wrote the last statement without having read on in your post. We came to the same conclusion, we should mark the day in our calendars.

Anyway, I agree they might have problems in a 3-5-2 on the sides, but in a 4-4-2 they have defenders on the side behind them, so it's not mattering as much. Their opposition would usually be a fullback who is offensively not that capeable.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ that reminds me very much of when we used to put VH or enayati or ... in wrong positions on the wings !!!

astounding how we never admit to mistakes!

player X may be a dangerous player ... WHEN HE'S USED CORRECTLY. not when he plays in a post where half his talent is wasted or where he cant deliver more than half the requisites of the post.

a sword IS a very dangerous thing. but it is quite dumb to use it as a letter opener. or as a screw-driver.