Ashjari

[Martin-Reza]

^ that reminds me very much of when we used to put VH or enayati or ... in wrong positions on the wings !!!

...and placed Christiano Ronaldo on the bench, or what?

We had noone, absolutely noone for leftwing, centerforward was occupied, so it was still better to use a good striker in a position he can also play, even when it's not his strongest position.

Again, at Bochum Hashemian repeatedly was used as wingforward in a 4-3-3, before he was put there in TM.

So if you have 4 great centerforwards you will all use them there? Surely not, but he might still be useful in other positions where you don't have excellent options. And we surely don't have any excellent leftwing option currently, so bringing players from other positions there might be an improvement.

But again, this is not even the case here. Most players you accuse not being able to play there well are used repeatedly there on club level. If you watched the latest Osasuna game you would know what I am talking about. Or do you think Daei told Camacho to play Shojaei on the left and then on the right wing?

[Doctor DOOM]

4-4-2

'nough said.

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I dont want to believe I have to go over the difference between a club's pool and a whole nation's pool available to the coaches for different posts.
surely that's rather elementary my dear Watson.

[Hajagha]

4-4-2

'nough said.

DD joon, your definition of right or left mid is different than the current definition is used in 4-4-2 or any other new formation (of course my side of view). I have zillions examples to bring for you that right or left midfielders are not wingers. You may check all the big clubs and see that one out of four mid is defensive one and the other 3 are interchanging mid together. It means they should be able to play left, right or center mid. Check Chelsea, ManU, Liverpool, RealMad, Barcelona,...

One of the biggest reasons that Kia lost his position in the attacking mid was his inability to switch from a "WINGER" to midfielder, that's why he was moved back to the right D where he must run overlap as a "WINGER", however his lack of disciplined defending made him shaky anyway.

Back to Heidari, he is a absolute winger which you can only use him as a D. But Gholamnejad has more qualities that can be used as a "semi midfielder", however in my book he is not yet convincing.

Cheers,

[Doctor DOOM]

na haji jan, that remark ( 4-4-2 ... ) was not a "correction" of martin's post, but a suggestion.

as for the right and left mid, if I have to really commit to an answer, I must say as long as there is a player that gives width to a team, I dont mind if it is the mid or defender.
however, it makes MORE sense if it is the mid since relying on a back to come so far up to the corner flag to provide the width, makes the team more vulnerable to counters from sides ... than the back merely supporting the midfielder who provides the width.

in case you all havent noticed, my point is not the player or post, but rather WIDTH of any team that is necessary. ... if they want to be able to penetrate and score goals.
however, if a team wants to play defensive and form a cluster in the middle, then I'd understand if the coach tries to converge all players and not make them move up to and stretch the opponent's defenders in their 1/3rd.

but somehow, I'd guess TM hasnt faced a team THAT STRONG to need to resort to the latter strategy .
and in the former, width becomes imperative if we're trying to win games and not settle for drab draws.

[faraz]

...and placed Christiano Ronaldo on the bench, or what?

We had noone, absolutely noone for leftwing, centerforward was occupied, so it was still better to use a good striker in a position he can also play, even when it's not his strongest position.

Again, at Bochum Hashemian repeatedly was used as wingforward in a 4-3-3, before he was put there in TM.

So if you have 4 great centerforwards you will all use them there? Surely not, but he might still be useful in other positions where you don't have excellent options. And we surely don't have any excellent leftwing option currently, so bringing players from other positions there might be an improvement.

But again, this is not even the case here. Most players you accuse not being able to play there well are used repeatedly there on club level. If you watched the latest Osasuna game you would know what I am talking about. Or do you think Daei told Camacho to play Shojaei on the left and then on the right wing?

Although I agree for the most part, I disagree with the bolded part above. I'm at a loss to explain why Ma'adanchi, who time in and time out as a substitute has proven his worth, isn't given the opportunity as an out and out left-sided winger...?

[yashar_fasihnia]

his crosses were all ineffective and hesitantly taken without much accuracy, but besides that, he had a good game considering he is still new to the team..

[maij]

I think the jury is out on Ashjari..... Not very impressive on his crosses at all...Like Ferdowsipour said "He seems to cross the ball with his eyes closed!!!"

Interesting to see both Zare (who came as a sub) and Ashjari in the game , while a many people arr arguing which one should be filling the left back slot !!!!!

I am afraid , Sattar Zare on the right was not very impressive either in his few minutes.......So , there is a big question mark still lingering on the left flank , as far as I am concerned .

[Martin-Reza]

I must say after today's game I still stick to my opinion Ashjari is not a step forward compared to Zare, but roughly on the same level. Considering that we didn't even have a second player on that low level up to know this is still an improvement.

Although I agree for the most part, I disagree with the bolded part above. I'm at a loss to explain why Ma'adanchi, who time in and time out as a substitute has proven his worth, isn't given the opportunity as an out and out left-sided winger...?

Well, this particular line was about AC 2004, I don't think Madanchi was a serious contender back then.

Btw, we played a kind of 4-4-2 diamond today, neither Gholamnejad not Khalatbari were supposed to be wide midfielders, but more central midfielders. I think Gholamnejad fits that position well, Khalatbari, although good today, is not the right player type for that position in my opinion, against stronger opponents this could be a problem.

But the plan seems to be that width comes from the wingbacks, Gholamreza Rezaei and by the two central midfielders in the diamond together.

[Doctor DOOM]

actually, I see a lot of opinion is based on what ferdosipoor spews out during games! many of them are stupid remarks and baseless.
I must say he's full of it. the first time ashjari's cross went wayward, he said "he "usually" closes his eyes and sends the ball" !! utter rubbish. first half is for everyone to watch again to show how foolish ferdosippor can be with his remarks.


I agree ashjari's crosses midway through the second half were not good ( 2 or 3 of them ). But if you all want proof, watch his first half crosses and a couple of them near the beginning of the second half. I WAS observing his crosses during the game and I can confidently say in the first half his crosses and corners were quite well placed. never ballooning ones we see from many of our more famous players either.
his corners are far better than shojaei's which used to constantly land near the very first defender to kick it away! His freekicks also are far better placed than many other more famous guys like shojaei.

some of his crosses came off while he was in a sprint along his marker, which is darnside more impressive from zareh's which usually were done by stopping the ball, then switching it to his right side and only then, using his right foot to send the cross ( which god knows where it used to land anyway ! )

so I really fail to see exactly where zareh is at the same level ! in defending? intercepting and marking? crossing? where ?

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his defending and attacking was also far better than average. But his highlights are his interceptions ( and his timing of them ) which marks him above any we've tried at LB in the past 4-5 years.

so my advice is we shd have OUR OWN opinion on players , rather than going by what some dumb commentator spews out. I hope the game is kept at PFDC archives, if for nothing else but to prove what an irresponsible idiot ferdosipoor can be with his commentary. lets stop being adamant and stubborn about our "party-line". dont worry. it was Daei who invited ashjari also. so if we accept the truth, we're not taking anything away from Daei. in fact we'll be supporting his decision.

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I'm not painting him to be a super star. but by god, he's been faring far better than any plzyer we've tried at LB in the past 5 years in his defending, intercepting and now, attacking and crossing. we've tried niki, madanchi, zandi, zareh, alenemeh ... .
of the above, I'd say only Alenemeh is worth trying as he, like ashjari ( and unlike zandi, niki, zareh, ... ) PLAYS his regular football in this post and is delivering the goods.

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as for zareh at right mid, I would not strike him off just based on a few minutes of this game.
his best shows at Bargh has been in that position and he's been delivering the goods for bargh for the past 3-4 years now.
just 10-15 poor minutes shd not mean we strike him off the possibilities of RM.

I would try him at RM in the next game. at least as a sub, for 25-30 minutes.
we'll see how he'd do there.

[purple_haze]

I must say after today's game I still stick to my opinion Ashjari is not a step forward compared to Zare, but roughly on the same level. Considering that we didn't even have a second player on that low level up to know this is still an improvement.



Well, this particular line was about AC 2004, I don't think Madanchi was a serious contender back then.

Btw, we played a kind of 4-4-2 diamond today, neither Gholamnejad not Khalatbari were supposed to be wide midfielders, but more central midfielders. I think Gholamnejad fits that position well, Khalatbari, although good today, is not the right player type for that position in my opinion, against stronger opponents this could be a problem.

But the plan seems to be that width comes from the wingbacks, Gholamreza Rezaei and by the two central midfielders in the diamond together.

I have to strongly disagree about Khalatbari. Sure in the past few games he had done quite good, but against Singapore he was this utterly annoying ballhog that kept on with one unsuccessful dribble attempt after the other. We already have a ballhog in Rezaei, but at least he's got a higher efficiency rate and mixes it up with scoring or assisting. How Khalatbari kept remaining on the field today was a mystery to me, I guess he can thank the other mystery of Sattar zare getting playing time no matter where and what, for that.

[Doctor DOOM]

speaking of width, I still say neither gholamnejad nor khalatbari are able to play wide.
khalatbari's TM performances only reinforce the fact that he's an offensive mid who shd be behind the 2 strikers, not pushed to the side.
much in the vein of shojaei, jabbari, karimi, ... . the only difference between them and khalatbari is they are much better PLAYMAKERS than him ( vast difference in their passing ability ). he is more offensive and can be used as a pseudo-forward even.

gholamnejad, while his "stats" read very well for today; one goal and one assist, he was too much inclined to the center and never helped the width.

the width came from both the backs, kaabi & ashjari as well as rezaei.

now, personally, I dont like to see a forward being pushed to the flanks just so the team can have width! that is the duty of the mids, not the strikers. by rezaei going to the flanks, we reduced our numbers in the "receiving" zone of opponent's 18 or 6 yard box!
I say When we have midfielders who CAN play wide ( hajsafi, Madanchi, kia, kazemian, heidari, ... ) and reduce the pressure on forwards to do so, then we shd make use of them.

Daei's arrangement is too focused on depth and center of the field. and so far we havent faced a team with good wide plays. but we KNOW korea and japan are great in flanks and will make optimal use of it all along the touchline. Daei shd not surrender the flanks so meekly .


===============

speaking of mids, what the hell was wrong with all 4 of them?
the four of them ( g-nejad, zareh, bagheri and khalatbari ) had the highest number of turn-overs in the game !!! they constantly lost the ball to an opponent 4 grades below them !!
it was quite alarming ! such high stats of turnovers for ANY midfield is something worrying.