Iran - Thailand

[Doctor DOOM]

If this was a sample of things to come in 2 weeks, then I am very much concerned.
Daei has motivation, energy, youth, drive, .... , but he certainly falls short in tact and adaptability and assessment of different situations.

- It starts with using slow midfielders against a speedy team, in their home.
2009 bagheri ... against thais? really?
Imagine if daei had chosen a proper playmaker instead of bagheri .... sigh!

- It also amazes me how he totally wasted the opportunity to get a pairing in forward line ( for the korea game ) by using rezaei, who's suspended.
lets face it. VH isnt such great shakes and he is not going to be any different from borhani or salehi.
So, as predicted, daei commits to the mistake and plays rezaei!

then why not use a tall salehi over the shorter thais?
what advantage would rezaei have over the thais? pace?


- Low quality of crosses. But then again, I'm not a bit surprised by this one. for weeks we've been talking about using players used to central positions on the flanks; khalatbari and a defender; gholamnejad.
so why shd we expect quality crossing?
why shd we expect a horse to sing? a horse can run, if you need running. not sing. how difficult is this concept to grasp, really?
... all the while, wide players like Hajsafi, sitting out and merely watching the game!!!!
absurd !


- Rahmati is the difference between TM several shameful losses & whatever points we've got so far.
and now, against the lowly thais. How many games he’s turned a loss to points? 5 games? 6 ?
Which coach would have lasted 5-6 losses ( to the likes of Thailand & china ) in a year ?
No one. Even if his name is wenger or cappelo.
Daei has been extremely lucky. So has TM, for rahmati’s form.
But luck runs out and all that’s left is the ACTUAL capabilities of the coach & players. what then ?

when we didnt lose or won those games, a lot of ppl came up with "shireeehh this and that". as usual masking the vivid deficiencies and lacks by "numbers on the score board"!
But in reality, after all these months, using a very stable line up, we still dont see any quality in terms of team work, strategies, player selection, ..... !
hmmm... I wonder if many of us would have kept quiet had it been Jalali or MK as TM coach.

===============

now, we may get the better of the thais in tehran, I'm quite certain.
But KOREA is a different beast.
they are far better organized than the thais.
they are far more skillful than the thais.
they use the flanks far better than the thais.
they use their opportunities and chances far better too.

if this was a rehearsal for that game, Daei shd be VERY WORRIED.

[persianallstars]

My only question is whether Daei has a great range of talented striker or low class copies of a nightmare like Borhani....

[kaz]

Very good points Peyman jan. I am beginning to worry more and more. We shouldn't have much trouble with these teams. In fact, in most games the opposition probably deserved a draw or a win when it's come out as a tie or a win for us. These are opponents ranging from the Saudis to the Thais to UAE to the Kuwaitis. I am yet to see Iran play like one of the powerhouses of Asia.

[Doctor DOOM]

My only question is whether Daei has a great range of talented striker or low class copies of a nightmare like Borhani....

THAT is not daei's fault. It's actually his misfortune that we dont have any high quality strikers.
But that doesnt take away from the fact that his selections and usage of whatever we have is far from ideal.
for example his using rezaei in this game.
or reluctance to use a different pair up front from his usual two-speedy-forwards.

-----------

thanks kazem.
I mean had it been wenger, we'd have fired him after losing to teams like thailand, china, uae, ... to ksa.
this is not to say lets fire daei. But we shd recognize and acknowledge the deficiencies and mistakes first. and then attempt to rectify them.
mere sticking our heads into the sand with "numbers" is not going to solve our problems later!

[Martin-Reza]

It was pretty much the same we had to observe in 2001 when we drew them 0-0 there in WCQ. I was not surprised at all, their playing style and the hot and humid conditions simply don't suit us.

Also 2004 in AC we had huge problems, until one bright Karimi moment won us the game.

[zzgloo]

1-Branko kept insisting Iran does not have any one to replace daei with,but we did not believe him !!!
2- We keep getting low quality performance from TM, and we keep rationalizing ,as either legioners were not playing or we ar trying to get experince !!

[Martin-Reza]

Interesting: http://www.persianfootball.com/index...=1534&Itemid=2

Although I agree that we can't win every game, I sometimes wonder if coaches really see it that positive often, or if this is simply something they say in order to defend the team in public.

[Dubxl152]

1-Branko kept insisting Iran does not have any one to replace daei with,but we did not believe him !!!
2- We keep getting low quality performance from TM, and we keep rationalizing ,as either legioners were not playing or we ar trying to get experince !!
3-Has daei not have enough time to deciede of the fix roster for TM ? or is he still looking for more players ?
4-daei's new german assistant does not appear to be makeing any difference.
5-When are going to see, any style or chemistry or rythem,or fluidity,or speed,or harmony in TM.....is that possible with Daei ?
6-Ali Daei is the luckiest coach on earth !!, and we are bound to lose an embbarising loss in near future !

1. Daei was a huge part of that problem dadash, when he was scoring 5 goals against Thailand, guys like borhani were rotting on the bench. no borhanis not a good striker, but it does make you wonder... what if he had gotten that experience then? where would he be now?

2.your right. But thats because 40 % of the people dont want to bad mouth Daei, 40% dont know whats really going on and the remaining 20% say exp cause they've heard us talk about how important international exp is, so they justify todays performance with it. but they fail to realize that these games are important opportunities to gain exp from a roster standpoint as well as a coaching stand point.... our coach is clearly lacking in the tactics of coaching dept.

3. I think he has a good idea of who to invite. Today was not a fifa match day so he couldn't bring in certain players. and quite honestly against Thailand i would have brought a similar team in order to see who else i had at my disposal.

4. I agree shortsightedly. Long term he will have a huge impact on the little things that are often overlooked, ie..... when to pass, when to drib etc. skills that should be learned at the youth level. I also feel that he will help us with some technical planning & set peices....... but he has only been with TM for a short time. give him 6mos. I honestly think long term rutmoller will be the man running TM with Daei as the figure head.

5. Yes. I think that style of play will be implemented by rutemoller once he's done teaching out players when to pass and when to drib. Give it some time, rutemoller is the closest thing we have ever had to a high quality coach. I certainly dont think we would see that with Daei running the show by himself. Simply because Daei lacks the coaching exp to implement such a drastic turn around by himself. Rutemoller's influence will be key.

6. Unfortunatly....... i have to totally agree. Unless things start to settle down with TM and we see some sort of cohesion.......... that loss is definitely in the cards.

[yashar_fasihnia]

^
i disagree with 1) because i say u start playing alizadeh 90 mintues in each TM game and every club game. u think it will be of any use??

the thing is, every player has certain potential and sometimes, a crippled 37 year old immobile striker like daei is more useful than a young speedy 25 year old borhani at full potential or ...

now this decision to pick an aged but experienced player or a young but mediocre player depends from person to person.
a coach like branko might prefer daei, another one like maelli kohan may prefer borhani, just like he played farhad majidi in TM when he was just 19 years old or something...
look at him now after all these years, at the age of 31, wat has he become after all these years of experience in iran, in europe and in UAE? he is still mediocre even for asian standards at best just like before...

so branko decided to with an aged but highly experienced and professional player rather than a young but unprofessional whiner who will never be able to play in clubs like bayern munich and hertha berlin...
now just because some might disagree with him, doesnt mean that branko made a wrong choice...

[Dubxl152]

^
i disagree with 1) because i say u start playing alizadeh 90 mintues in each TM game and every club game. u think it will be of any use??

the thing is, every player has certain potential and sometimes, a crippled 37 year old immobile striker like daei is more useful than a young speedy 25 year old borhani at full potential or ...

now this decision to pick an aged but experienced player or a young but mediocre player depends from person to person.
a coach like branko might prefer daei, another one like maelli kohan may prefer borhani, just like he played farhad majidi in TM when he was just 19 years old or something...
look at him now after all these years, at the age of 31, wat has he become after all these years of experience in iran, in europe and in UAE? he is still mediocre even for asian standards at best just like before...

so branko decided to with an aged but highly experienced and professional player rather than a young but unprofessional whiner who will never be able to play in clubs like bayern munich and hertha berlin...
now just because some might disagree with him, doesnt mean that branko made a wrong choice...

I understand your point of view and it is valid. I never tried to defend borhani he is a poor striker and should be dropped like Majidi, Rezaie is a bandaid imho we should be looking to bring in youth at the striker position. You made an analogy with alizadeh........ who said anything about him, im saying bring in someone from our youth teams.... like ravankhan or alimohhamadi. You also said the it doesnt mean branko made a wrong choice.... true...... but it doesnt mean it was the right choice either. i dont wanna start the whole daei, branko, WC06 argument again cause it will never end and get us nowhere.

Let me say i never meant to undermine daei's acheivements, he opened the door to europe for iranians and has given a life times worth for TM. For those things he deserves the utmost respect.

[Hadi]

آقا جون من، مربی نیستی!!! دیگه چقدر وقت میخوای؟ چقدر میخوای همهٔ منتقدین سکوت کنند و فقط ازت تعریف کنند (البته اون بیچاره هایی هم که یک نمور ازت انتقاد میکننو که به بدترین شکل بهشون حمله میکنی و تهمت میزنی) چقدر اعتماد میخوای؟ چقدر حمایت میخوای؟ البته تقصیر تو نیست، تقصیر اون ابلهیه، که ادارهٔ فدراسیون دستشه، و تورو گذشته سر مربی تیم ملی.خجالت هم نمی کشه. یک سال گذشته بابا جون من. یکی نیست بیاد بگه عملکردت چطوری بوده؟ یکی نیست بیاد بگه ما نسبت به ۲ سال پیش، پیشرفت کردیم یا پسرفت؟ یکی نیست پیدا شه بگه از ۲ تا اردو تو اسپانیا، و حقوق بالای کادر فنی تیم ملی، چه نتیجه ای گرفتیم؟ از چه نظر تیم ما پیشرفت کرده؟ پاس بهتر میدیم؟ گل بهتر می زنیم؟ بهتر دفاع می*کنیم؟

انگار پول علفه خرسه، وقت هم ینجهٔ گاو. اصلا تو مملکت ما، انگار سوال کردن گناهه. انگار نه انگار که شخص مربی تیم ملی، و فدرسین فوتبال باید جواب گوی ملت باشن. در عوض، میان جلوی دوربین، و حتی حاضر نیستن که اعتراف کنن "گند زدیم". کلی هم برای خودشون پپسی باز میکنند که چی؟ که مثلا تو شرایط سخت از امثال تایلند و امارات مساوی گرفتیم! از اون طرف هم انتظار دارن هیچ کس هیچ چی نگه، ملت هم هزار هزار بیان تو استادیوم بگن "دائی شیره!"


رفتن (خدا میدونه چقدر)، به روت مولر مایه دادند که بیا ایران، پس فردا نگن علی دائی تجربه نداشت، یا علی دائی از مربی خارجی استفاده نکرد! بابا اینا همه یه کلکه، یه فیلمه!

سطح تیم ما، اومده در حد تیمهی درجه ۲ آسیا. انگار پیشرفتها و زحمتهای فوتبال ما در ۵-۶ ساله گذشته همه پشم، دوباره برگشتیم سر پله اول.

تا قابل بازی با عربستان، که ماه عسل آقای دائی بوده. میگفتیم تازه اومده، تیم هماهنگ نیست، بازی دوستانه نداشتیم و ...

بعدش رفته تو عربستان، با چنگو دندون، با عملکرد خوب رحمتی، و بی دقتی بازیکنان عربستان، و در آخر با یک اتفاق شانسی، یه مساوی گرفته. طرفدارای فوتبال ما هم که ماشالله، فقط چششون نتیجه بازی رو میبینه. همه به به، چه چه که، آقا رفته تو عربستان مساوی گرفته!

بعدشم ۲ تا بازی افتضاح جلوی امارات و کره شمالی. امارات که تهقیرمون کرد. جلوی کره هم اگه بازی ۱۰ دقیقه دیگه طول میکشید، گل مساوی رو میخوردیم!

بردن سنگاپور هم تو تهران، معجزه که نیست؟ هست؟ علی دائی که هیچ، من بی سواد هم مربی تیم بودم، سنگاپور را میزدیم.

بابا بچه های تیم ما هنوز ۲ تا پاس ساده نمی تونن بدن. انگار تمام بازیکنامون کنترل توپ یادشون رفته. جا گیریهای بازیکنها رو نگاه کن، خنده ات میگیره. هر ۱۱ بازیکن ما بخاطر رفع تکلیف فوتبال بازی می کنن. پاس میدان، که فقط پاسی داده باشند. یک سال گذشته، انگار روز اولیه که دارن با هم بازی می کنن. (بعضی ها هم که انگار روزه اولیه که دارن فوتبال بازی می کنن!!)


اصلا ول کن این حرفارو. فرض کن آقای دائی، کژ دار و مریض، با ایه الکرسی و صلوات، و با چند تا حرکت انفرادی امثال نکونام یا مهدوی کیا، مارو برد جام جهانی. اونوقت چی؟ مگه ما ۴ سال پیش نرفتیم جام جهانی؟ قراره که درجا بزنیم، یا نسبت به ۴ سال پیش پیشرفت کنیم؟ انصافا فکر میکنید دائی میتونه شگفتی آفرین باشه، و مثلا ایران رو ببره مرحلهٔ دوم؟

چیزی به بازی با کره جنوبی نمونده، یکی دو هفته دیگه. آب هم از سر گذشته، کاری هم نمیشه کرد، چون خیلی دیره. همینه که هست. فقط دلم از این میسوزه، که در صورت حذف تیم از جام جهانی، کی می خواد جواب میلیون ها جوان ایرانی در ایران و خارج رو بده؟ البته هرچند، بار اول که نیست، میان تو تلوزیون، سر مردم رو درد میارند، چهار تا بهانه هم میارن،تقصیر رو هم میندازن گردن این و اون و همدیگه، بعد دوباره به این نتیجه میرسند که مربی خارجی خوبه!! و دوباره و دوباره و دوباره این سیکل معیوب ادامه داره!

-دوست دار فوتبال و تیم ملی ایران،

هادی

[Nokhodi]

Iran has never been good against speedy teams, particularly in warm and humid weather.

[Paradigm]

If this was a sample of things to come in 2 weeks, then I am very much concerned.
Daei has motivation, energy, youth, drive, .... , but he certainly falls short in tact and adaptability and assessment of different situations.
- It starts with using slow midfielders against a speedy team, in their home.
2009 bagheri ... against thais? really?
Imagine if daei had chosen a proper playmaker instead of bagheri .... sigh!
- It also amazes me how he totally wasted the opportunity to get a pairing in forward line ( for the korea game ) by using rezaei, who's suspended.
lets face it. VH isnt such great shakes and he is not going to be any different from borhani or salehi.
So, as predicted, daei commits to the mistake and plays rezaei!
then why not use a tall salehi over the shorter thais?
what advantage would rezaei have over the thais? pace?
- Low quality of crosses. But then again, I'm not a bit surprised by this one. for weeks we've been talking about using players used to central positions on the flanks; khalatbari and a defender; gholamnejad.
so why shd we expect quality crossing?
why shd we expect a horse to sing? a horse can run, if you need running. not sing. how difficult is this concept to grasp, really?
... all the while, wide players like Hajsafi, sitting out and merely watching the game!!!!
absurd !
- Rahmati is the difference between TM several shameful losses & whatever points we've got so far.
and now, against the lowly thais.

Honestly I think Zandi and Nekounam will be two great elements to bring back to the team to instill some sense of team work. Zandi for the set pieces (at least now that Mobali is not there) and Nekounam for playmaking and also for his leadership. Shojaie can do the footwork on the right. I also want to see Ale Nemeh as the LB. By the way where is Teymourian nowadays and how is he doing? I thought he'd be a good defensive mid so that Nekou can play in a more offensive position.

[yashar_fasihnia]

I understand your point of view and it is valid. I never tried to defend borhani he is a poor striker and should be dropped like Majidi, Rezaie is a bandaid imho we should be looking to bring in youth at the striker position. You made an analogy with alizadeh........ who said anything about him, im saying bring in someone from our youth teams.... like ravankhan or alimohhamadi. You also said the it doesnt mean branko made a wrong choice.... true...... but it doesnt mean it was the right choice either. i dont wanna start the whole daei, branko, WC06 argument again cause it will never end and get us nowhere.
Let me say i never meant to undermine daei's acheivements, he opened the door to europe for iranians and has given a life times worth for TM. For those things he deserves the utmost respect.

alizadeh was just an extreme example to make my point easier to understand.
didnt i mention farhad majidi? now that isnt an extreme example and he was one of our "top" strikers that time and was around 27 years old in 2004..
my point is, even for us fans, we can somewat read a players characteristics and potential just by the way he looks, he talks, he carries himself and the way he acts on the field.
majidi at the age of 31 is still the same selfish player who tries to dribble every player, who dives everytime he enters the penalty area, who growls and moans everytime he is being subbed out or is benched and is always complaining to the referee... with such an atittude, a player will never get anywhere, which is clear now in his case at the age of 31, 12 years after his first cap for TM!
take khatibis example, he too had a short stint in europe, played in iran, played in UAE and even played in ACL and is quite an experienced player, but time and again, u see him missing the easiest of goals, u see him making unnecessary dribbles, u see him hesitantly shooting wide like some 19 year old kid: the game against portugal and again repeat the same mistake against KSA just a few months back! like it or not, these were our only other options between 2004 - 2006 and there isnt and wasnt much room for improvement for them..
in my opinion, players like borhani, enayati, khatibi and nikbakht are also in the same category as majidi..

then u compare them to players like daei, bagheri, mahdavikia, nekounam, teymourian, jabbari even maziar zareh and mind u im not a fan of zareh, but u see vast difference between these guys and those i mentioned earlier.. they way they carry themselves, the way they talk, etc...

remember this is not 2009 we are talking about, but 2004 - 2006.. a player like ravankhah who is 20 now was wat, 15 or 16 back then?? mohsen khalili was warming the benches in his own club that time. these players are just beginning to show themselves in IPL! was hadi asghari who was last seasons top goal scorer even a starter for his club that time??

we didnt have many options that time.... we had the usuals enayati, khatibi, samereh, majidi....these guys we are seeing now are the next generation who have started to show themselves in the league now in 2008 and 2009!
he did invite young players like madanchi who was 20 that time, teymourian, shojaei and jabbari who were around 22 that time and even fielded them in the biggest event like worldcup 2006 because these guys were worthy of it and had potential to reach somewhere someday! but too bad none of our strikers showed such potential and there wasnt anything we could do about it!

and while it doesnt mean branko's decision was right either, u cant really blame him for making this choice. its a choice many others agree with. its not like he was benching etoo or drogba for daei!

let me make an analogy.
england didnt make it to euro 2008.
england has 2 great midfielders, gerrard and lampard, and there is a huge dispute among english fans and critics whether gerrard and lampard should both play in the team next to each other or not. well they did play together in england and england failed to qualify for the euros.
now u tell me, is it correct for the critics who were against the use of gerrard-lampard to come and blame mclaren for this? had one of them been benched, england would make it to euros? is it even an easy decision to bench one of these guys? how many coachs around the world would make such a decision to bench one of these guys for another much lesser known midfielder or striker?
my point is, such sensitive decisions are always difficult to make and impossible for everyone to accept. im sure that if branko had not used daei and would be using some other striker, another group of people would be blaming branko for benching a highly experienced and professional striker with good leadership abilities and strong physical presence on the bench (daei) for a player like khatibi or even worse, some 19 or 20 year old striker with relatively no experience and not much potential either.. its a lose-lose situation anyways, and there is nothing we can do about it except understand the circumstance he was in and TM was in..
u can see some shades of it today.. for example, daei doesnt invite or invites but subs out kia and plays gholamnejad instead and people jump on him. TM game also becomes worse and result also becomes worse when we start playing these youngsters.
then he is blamed for it again. gholmanejad will never be a mahdavikia, but wat choice do we have? daei has to play either an aging slow but experienced mahdavikia and later face the same criticism branko is facing now regarding strikers, or play gholaamnejad now and face the criticism from another group of people for leaving out kia and TM not getting good results against thailand and UAE!
Again: Lose- Lose situation...

that being said, i think TM still needs lots of work to do to play like an asian power house again....

[Doctor DOOM]

Honestly I think Zandi and Nekounam will be two great elements to bring back to the team to instill some sense of team work. Zandi for the set pieces (at least now that Mobali is not there) and Nekounam for playmaking and also for his leadership. Shojaie can do the footwork on the right. I also want to see Ale Nemeh as the LB. By the way where is Teymourian nowadays and how is he doing? I thought he'd be a good defensive mid so that Nekou can play in a more offensive position.

I agree, zandi and nekunam are valuable members of TM and can be very useful.
But I respectfully disagree with making nekunam the playmaker or pushing shojaie to the flanks.
javad is NOT a playmaker. we need someone who consistently, regularly and constantly creates chances for all players around him. Javad cannot do it with this regularity or precision. Navidkia, jabbari, karimi, mobaali, ... are more befitting of the role.

shojaei has proven his efficiency is reduced when he's pushed to the side. he cant defend , his crosses arent up to par with a flank/wide player, he doesnt give the team any width as he moves to the center always, .... etc etc etc.
He is best as an offensive mid but not on the sides.

===================================

Daei's problems are :
1- bringing back bagheri, which has forced him to eliminate a slot for a proper playmaker. while bagheri is no playmaker himself !!

2- He doesnt like to play wide and to him, width at the opponent's 1/3 hardly exists !!! hence we see central players like shojaei, khalatbari, nouri, bao, ... put on the right and left mid !!!

3- a quick central defender to bring in some pace to our middle of defense.

4- not much of planning on freekicks & set pieces.

5- After this many months we still dont see much of a style or team strategy in the team's moves. Are we an attacking team? a defensive one? are we a team that presses? do we apply pressure on the opponent by possession football in opponents' half? are we a counter attacking team? are we a physical team? are we a speedy team? are we feared for our set pieces ?

this is not to say a team shd be ONE of the above and nothing else.
But teams tend to show superiority in one area more than the others. koreans are organized & fast. so are the japanese while very dangerous on set pieces. ksa is a technical but physical team with good possession football. aussies are a direct team with physicality.

we cant be put in ANY categories. coz we havent shown to be experts in ANY of them!!! we used to be highly technical. but now? we cant string 3-4 passes together.
we used to be a physical team, but now teams like n korea muscle our mids !!
we've never been a quick counter attacking team anyway.
we're not feared for our set pieces .... EVER !!!!
and so on & so forth.

TM needs to be stylized. Needs an overall strategy.
MK's team was energetic and free-flowing attacking in nature.
branko's was a defensive and slow ( in build up ) team.
GN's ( up to the AC games )a physical one which relied a lot of width .
Ciro's was a controlling team.
Daeis? ........................ cant say anything !
what is Daei's style?

------------------------------------------

as a player who scored a lot of goals, he used the services of his wide players , who stretched the defenders and crossed so he could head the balls in. He also relied on technical playmakers who created chances with great passing through the defense, for him.
but as a coach, he's done away with both these factors.
he doesnt apply width to the team and he's thrown out the notion of a playmaker.

so what's he trying to do?