New face and new formation against Korea?

[Doctor DOOM]

The WHOLE team played like crap in uae ( with the exception of rahmati who again, prevented another loss for daei's team ) . not only hajsafi.

[mehdy]

Mansoor jan

This is my formation,if i use this trio and 2 DMF and one striker system.


--------------Rahamati
Kaabi---Hosseini-----Nosrati-----Ashjari
--------Nekounam------P.Nouri
-----Shojaei----Jabbari----Hajsafi
------------Motevaselzadeh

And i want to try Sheys Rezaei or Montazeri as CD(Both of them are former U-23's CD partner of Hosseini),Abbasfard as Striker.

Btw,Can't Borhani play for this system?

How about ur lineup?

[Doctor DOOM]

1- welcome mehdy jan to F+.

2- I assume since you're a staunch supporter of Moty, you'd know if he's able to be a single forward in a team or no.
i- how is he physically & can he be muscled off the ball by an average international ( not IPL ) defender? is he, physically, on par with the likes of daei (the striker, not the coach ) ?
ii- How is his speed? Is he speedy enough to escape his mark with quick turns and srpints?
iii- How is his heading ability ? can he climb over an average international ( not IPL ) defender to head the ball with adequate accuracy ?
iv- How is his "ball holding" capabilities. Can he shield the ball and retain it under pressure?

Coz if he doesnt get good scores in the above, I'm afraid he cant be the sole forward in the team.
But dont worry, I doubt we have ANY Iranian forward who CAN. so he's not behind any competition.

===========================

Is nosrati even in form?
I'd agree with montazeri or asadi as one of the CD's to bring in a bit of pace to the slow middle of defense.

============

I hope I dont have to repeat my views on shojaei's capabilities on the flanks.

[Mansoor]

Mansoor jaan, !!
What devastating experince ??!!..........Would you explain please !!.....

Mokhlesim. No big deal. Last year's match in Tehran in previous round was Hajsafi's first match as starter. I was there. He had totally lost his confidence and perform terribly. Daei took him out quickly (I think first half) and realized it was too soon for the youngster to take that much pressure and talked about it afterward. Since then, Daei has used him in lesser matches or bringing him as a few min sub letting him grow into it.

[Mansoor]

Mansoor jan
This is my formation,if i use this trio and 2 DMF and one striker system.
--------------Rahamati
Kaabi---Hosseini-----Nosrati-----Ashjari
--------Nekounam------P.Nouri
-----Shojaei----Jabbari----Hajsafi
------------Motevaselzadeh
And i want to try Sheys Rezaei or Montazeri as CD(Both of them are former U-23's CD partner of Hosseini),Abbasfard as Striker.
Btw,Can't Borhani play for this system?
How about ur lineup?

Hi Mehdi.

Borhani can play as the player behind striker or as right winger, similar to G.Rezaei. He does not have the characteristics of a lone striker of 4-2-3-1 in international level. Motaveselzadeh does have the physique Borhani doesn't have, but he is far from a qualified player for international level. Perhaps in a few years but not yet. If we put Borhani up front, with Jabbari behind him, we will lose one dimension of our offense (aerial) which can be "ok" against most teams in Asian level but we will be crippled in international level by any strong defense for having predictable offense.

Nosrati is by far the most talented defender we have in central back but unfortunately, the mental aspect of his game are gone and I am not sure if he will ever recover. Working under Ghotbi has diminished several TM players from last year including him and S.Rezaei.

I like Montazeri but I don't think we have anybody beside Nosrati at the moment that can surpass our current central defenders in TM even though they are weak. Maybe Rahman Rezaei can catch up now that Perspolis has a real coach but that remains to be seen.

If I have to put the line up, I will go with Hashemian and would give a try to Khalili in a few "real" friendlies to see how he performs. With that trio, rest asssured we can create many scoring opportunities for a natural scorer and Khalili is one. But he has to play several games along side them to melt in, and also pass the "Enayati test". Salehi is the third choice but far from qualified at the moment. I would take Borhani over Salehi even with Borhani's shortcomings such as physique and height.

The key in this system is to have two defensive midfielders that complete each other. Similar to in-form Kavianpour and Nekunam under Branko when Iran's 4-2-3-1 was working well. Both have to be excellent in defensive duties, particularly running around in front of the box and distracting and neutralizing the opponents' offensive line. Also, they must play the role of a quarter back in offense and have to be able to carry the ball and distribute via short and long passes while the other one supports him. And they must have the capability to add as the third offensive wave behind the box especially with long range shots. Nekunam is one, the other one has to be found. Let's see if Daei uses the system tomorrow and how his second choice performs .... This second choice in def. mid as well as the striker will be the missing part of the puzzle for the trio to shine in WC ...

[Doctor DOOM]

Traditionally, IRANIAN coaches have somehow become cautious when faced with decent to good oppositions or crucial situations and usually revert to an older or "safer" system.

Poorheidari, Talebi, GN, EZ, ... have all shown the same tendency!
even the adamant GN reverted to the supposedly "safer" & cautious 4-2-3-1 once we entered the AC07 games ( his last subbing of talebloo put the seal on this ) !!
... inspite of having a pretty decent run and good results with his 3-5-2 formation prior to AC07.

Is it nerves? or the fear of defeat or ... ? I dont know.
But I'm interested to see if daei will persist with his 4-4-2 or will he suddenly revert to the cautious ( given OUR material, not barcelona's ) 4-2-3-1

He must bear in mind a draw works very well for the koreans. this is our HOME game and we need to win it, at any cost. especially since I'd predict ksa wins and gets the 3 points against north korea. then, a draw will see us in 3rd place! not a very good place to be in halfway through the campaign with 2 away trips to north and south korea and the packed schedule of the last 3 games!

[Mr.Good]

we know that our defence is not the very best, even for Asia's standards. IMO a system with two DM is a must in these kind of games.

If I remember correctly, GN played 4-3-3 in AC07 until the Korea game where he changed to 3-5-2 (think 5-3-2), and played for the draw against S.Korea.

Furthermore, playing 4-2-3-1 does not mean it is a defensive strategy. This way Bagheri if played behind the striker would not have to worry much about defensive duties and can add to attack. same can be said about the wing players. and given that we don't have great strikers, we need all the support from the Midfield in attack.

[zzgloo]

Mokhlesim. No big deal. Last year's match in Tehran in previous round was Hajsafi's first match as starter. I was there. He had totally lost his confidence and perform terribly. Daei took him out quickly (I think first half) and realized it was too soon for the youngster to take that much pressure and talked about it afterward. Since then, Daei has used him in lesser matches or bringing him as a few min sub letting him grow into it.

thanks for the explanation.....
It is only natural for a young and inexperinced to be like that the first time around, and hopefuly he will play with more self-steem this time !

[Doctor DOOM]

I think I DID mention "given OUR material and players, not barcelona's" when I described the 4-2-3-1.

this bagheri is NO pierlo or xavi, or gerard or ... .
neither is VH VNR
nor are our flanks players on par with messi, or kuyt or ...


and ando-nekounam def-mid duo was quite apparent in AC07

[Mr.Good]

^
we are also not playing Italy or spain here, and Nekounam is no Cena also.
Nekounam cannot cover for the whole team himself. and our defense cannot cover for Nekounam.
in AC07 until or game with S. Korea we were playing 4-3-3 and the three men in the middle were Karimi-Nekounam-Ando. then Nekounam was the DM, Karimi and Ando were playing CM.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ it has nothing to do with the opponents.
our players cannot perform the duties of that formation properly as many of them dont have the characteristics required for those specific style of players.

========================

Anyway, apparently the line ups are announced
and lo & behold , surprise surprise, daei IS changing his usual 4-4-2 in favor of 4-2-3-1 !

It is as expected,

rahmati
aghili, hosseini, ashjari, kaabi
nekounam , kazemi
G-najad, shojaei, bagheri,
VH


the line up is heavily defensive and cautious. perhaps daei has forgotten this is our HOME game and we NEED to win it.
he also may have forgotten our packed schedule of games near the end that makes any planning extremely difficult and shd not be relied upon!!


Now, there's no point discussing line ups anymore.
it's done and sent ( as I was told )

lets hope bagheri can keep up the momentum and pace of the game
lets hope shojaei can defend along the flanks, coz koreans use the flanks like their second nature.
lets hope VH doesnt get crowded by many defenders, left all alone up there
lets hope rahmati will perform another set of miracles and ensure our safety
lets hope G-nejad & shojaei can service VH ( and karim ?? ) well and cross frequently
lets hope they take enough number of shots from midfield
...etc

to victory.

[yashar_fasihnia]

i actually like the idea of playing 4-2-3-1 against korea specially if we use a bulldog gatusso type of DM next to nekounam like ando or kazemi...

it helps us exploit our superiority over them upfront on headers with hashemian and bagheri (so expect lots of crosses), while at the same time, trying to break their speedy builds up through midfield with 2 DMs and 3 other midfielders before they even reach our defense line with more tackling, interceptions and even small fouls!

we can maintain ball more ball possession, control the speed of the game and dictate our gameplay over theirs when our midfield takes over their midfield.

also, with a 2nd DM in the field, nekounam has more freedom to move forward and score on shots or headers and doesnt have to restrict himself to only set pieces now.

i wouldnt call it a defensive gutless formation. i call it a well planned formation.

besides, i dont know how much effective it will be to have arash borhani trying to deal with a speedy korean defense specially in the absence of good passers like jabbari or navidkia in the team. maybe nouri and borhani can be subbed in together to change plans and start attacking the koreans on the ground...

P.S. it also depends on the opponent. our players might not be the best players to carryout the 4-2-3-1 plans to the fullest, but they are not blonde bimbos with big titties either. since we are playing korea and not brazil or argentina, our players are capable of playing a decent 4-2-3-1 game against them. whether it works out and whether their coach will outsmart ours or not, is another story and yet to be seen..

[mehdy]

1- welcome mehdy jan to F+.

2- I assume since you're a staunch supporter of Moty, you'd know if he's able to be a single forward in a team or no.
i- how is he physically & can he be muscled off the ball by an average international ( not IPL ) defender? is he, physically, on par with the likes of daei (the striker, not the coach ) ?
ii- How is his speed? Is he speedy enough to escape his mark with quick turns and srpints?
iii- How is his heading ability ? can he climb over an average international ( not IPL ) defender to head the ball with adequate accuracy ?
iv- How is his "ball holding" capabilities. Can he shield the ball and retain it under pressure?

Coz if he doesnt get good scores in the above, I'm afraid he cant be the sole forward in the team.
But dont worry, I doubt we have ANY Iranian forward who CAN. so he's not behind any competition.

===========================

Is nosrati even in form?
I'd agree with montazeri or asadi as one of the CD's to bring in a bit of pace to the slow middle of defense.

============

I hope I dont have to repeat my views on shojaei's capabilities on the flanks.

Yeah,I watched Mote for 2 years.Honestly,He could beat Central Defender of Australia Bundesliga div2.
However,i know he couldn't beat IPL CD's like a Montazeri,Koushki (vs SS,Hazifi-cup final) and S.Rezaei.
But his hight(189cm/82kg),Physical are not bad.
His speed,ball holding skill and assist are also Okey,but i don't know whether i'ts international level or not.
If he can play for SS as striker,i believe that He will be able to constantly score from good quality Pass by Jabbari,Heydari,Amirabadi.

I want him to give the chance to play in the international level and more good team than Moghavemat Sepasi.

About Nosrati,he is still young,experienced,Quick CD we have.
So,he is a Talent whom should not be wasted,though i don't know his current form.We have already wasted Meydavoudi.....

[mehdy]

Hi Mehdi.
Borhani can play as the player behind striker or as right winger, similar to G.Rezaei. He does not have the characteristics of a lone striker of 4-2-3-1 in international level. Motaveselzadeh does have the physique Borhani doesn't have, but he is far from a qualified player for international level. Perhaps in a few years but not yet. If we put Borhani up front, with Jabbari behind him, we will lose one dimension of our offense (aerial) which can be "ok" against most teams in Asian level but we will be crippled in international level by any strong defense for having predictable offense.
Nosrati is by far the most talented defender we have in central back but unfortunately, the mental aspect of his game are gone and I am not sure if he will ever recover. Working under Ghotbi has diminished several TM players from last year including him and S.Rezaei.
I like Montazeri but I don't think we have anybody beside Nosrati at the moment that can surpass our current central defenders in TM even though they are weak. Maybe Rahman Rezaei can catch up now that Perspolis has a real coach but that remains to be seen.
If I have to put the line up, I will go with Hashemian and would give a try to Khalili in a few "real" friendlies to see how he performs. With that trio, rest asssured we can create many scoring opportunities for a natural scorer and Khalili is one. But he has to play several games along side them to melt in, and also pass the "Enayati test". Salehi is the third choice but far from qualified at the moment. I would take Borhani over Salehi even with Borhani's shortcomings such as physique and height.
The key in this system is to have two defensive midfielders that complete each other. Similar to in-form Kavianpour and Nekunam under Branko when Iran's 4-2-3-1 was working well. Both have to be excellent in defensive duties, particularly running around in front of the box and distracting and neutralizing the opponents' offensive line. Also, they must play the role of a quarter back in offense and have to be able to carry the ball and distribute via short and long passes while the other one supports him. And they must have the capability to add as the third offensive wave behind the box especially with long range shots. Nekunam is one, the other one has to be found. Let's see if Daei uses the system tomorrow and how his second choice performs .... This second choice in def. mid as well as the striker will be the missing part of the puzzle for the trio to shine in WC ...

Hi,dear Mansoor jan.
Hmm..maybe we don't have a lone striker of International level now,so we should find and grow up new talents.
After the defeat in WC 2006,I felt the lack of solid CD and internatioal solid striker strongly.As u know,Mexico had Marquez and Borgetti,Italy had Cannavaro and Toni,Spain had Puyol and Fernando Torres.I know you hope for TM not only to participate in the WC but also to beat euro and south american countrys.

I 100% agree with Nekounam-kavianpou duo was working well.Then Nekounam-Alavi duo was working well in the 2004 WAFF too.

This lineup trashed syria 4-1 in the final.

-------------------Rahmati
-Kaabi---G,Mohammadi--Nosrati--Badavi
----------Kavianpour-----Nekounam
-----Borhani--------Karimi---------Vahedi
---------------------Daei

Kavianpour and Alavi are good partner of Nekounam.I cannot forget the match against New zealand,this is the ideal match for me.

Can Kazemi play this role?
He is experienced DMF,but he play for 1 DMF player of SS's 3-5-2 system.And also this is the first time he became patner of Nekounam.

Anyway,TM should fight more international friendly match,like a vs Galicia...though there are a lot of cancellations

I always talk about DMF and striker problems sometimes.

4 line defense + No defensive [minded] MF system is Dangerous!!!
TM Defensive MF problem.
Nekounam-Teymourian best DMF Duo???
Current TM's defense is the worst ever.
Who is SMF can attack and defense well?
IPL Strikers 【Goal clips uploaded】
Who is the striker with good heading ability?
Mote or Salehi?

[Mansoor]

I think it was brilliant to use this system against dangerous Koreans, and should be used against strong opponents in international stage to cover for our weak central defense. Unfortunately, the idea was overshadowed with Daei's persistancy to start Bagheri, and even worse to keep him for 90 min!?

Looking at the other options and positions discussed yesterday, Kazemi was the perfect choice (yes Yashar jaan, I meant him yesterday) as he did an excellent job stopping or distrupting Koreans behind the box, and often helped the offense as the third wave. Nekunam did well also, but he has the potential to do much better. The play leading to penalty (yep it was), the play leading to FK for the score, and the score were all the work of these two hard working players which shows they played their role in offense as well as helping the defense. Kazemi in particular was a pleasant surprise for his confidence and ball handling in his very few chances.

Hashemian played the role of a lone striker relatively well when he was fighting the Koreans but the existance of Bagheri who is supposed to be the connector to Hashemian had diminished Hashemian. Except half broken couple of passes, they did not show any combination and there were never a flow between Bagheri and Hashemian. Neither with others around Bagheri.

I think Hashemian is good enough even though not the perfect choice for the system and we shall see how Khalili performs after his return. However, neither would do well if Bagheri shows up again unfortunately!

Over all score:
Kazemi A+
Nekunam A
Hashemian B

I hope Jabbari and Khalili get fit for the Saudi match as we need both of them. Particularly Jabbari. And perhaps Khalili can be the last 30 min sub to cover for lagging Hashemian toward the end.