What is behind Daei wanting Karimi Back ?

[Kasra.]

Ali jaan, Welcome back aziz. Long time no see

[TrueBlue]

I personally think that IF we had collected all 6 points from UAE (away game) and South Korea (home game) we wouldnt have heard from Karimi. Daei and IFF (and I mainly think IFF) have realised that the path to WC has gotten much harder than what they expected. They know that they need all their top guns in the team, and somehow use them as scapegoats in case TM fails to qualify.

I was one the people who opposed inviting Karimi back to TM again. Now that it has happened, I just hope that he can deliver, as the matter of fact, he better deliver for his own sake or knowing the emotional state of our fans, he might become the target of TM failure (if we fail to qualify) accusations.

[Rooyintan]

In one sentence: Qualification to the 2010 World Cup.

[zzgloo]

1-Does any one here in our PFDC has any doubt, there is something fishy about Daei when it comes to Ali Karimi ?.....

2-Has daei's player invitations been productive ?...has it been on any plan ?..........Whole sale changes till when ?.....when are we going to have a set TM ?...........Does Daei need to see the players play in TM to find out how good they may be ?............Had Daei not seen all players he has invited when he was not TM coach ?.........

3- Inviting new players all the time will help TM, or haveing some coach who can teach , and design a team ?

4-Is Daei's attitude , a one, players would admire and want to do thier best for ?

5-What is it he has done we could not have done without him ?

[Doctor DOOM]

1-Does any one here in our PFDC has any doubt, there is something fishy about Daei when it comes to Ali Karimi ?.....
2-Has daei's player invitations been productive ?...has it been on any plan ?..........Whole sale changes till when ?.....when are we going to have a set TM ?...........Does Daei need to see the players play in TM to find out how good they may be ?............Had Daei not seen all players he has invited when he was not TM coach ?.........
3- Inviting new players all the time will help TM, or haveing some coach who can teach , and design a team ?
4-Is Daei's attitude , a one, players would admire and want to do thier best for ?
5-What is it he has done we could not have done without him ?

1- NO. It is clear the issue is being handled in most immature and unproductive ( if not vindictive ) manner possible.
TM is not the place to "settle ur scores" take it outside & bash the sh*t out of eachother. but once u come to TM, leave all that crap outside.

2- Not much. ..... Not much ( unless we allow for "personal" preferences ..... hopefully by the end of saudi game ..... No. He shd know their abilities before coming to TM ..... true

3- Both

4- some do , some may not

5- as a coach? a little bit.
as a player quite a lot

[Martin-Reza]

After seeing the PP game, I guess there will be no Karimi for KSA.

[faraz]

After seeing the PP game, I guess there will be no Karimi for KSA.

he would still make a good sub, last 30 minutes, under all circumstances (losing, tieing, winning...).

he's not fit, that much is crystal clear.

[Doctor DOOM]

he was quite effective in most instances.

and yes, he ran out of gas on a couple of occasions & near the end, but considering we dont have Messi, Kaka, Xavi ... and the fact that none of navidkia , jabbari and mobaali are called , he still seems to be the best answer we have in CREATING chances for TM.
so unless you guys can wangle change of citizenship for xavi, kaka or ..., then you ARE sadly restricted to iranian players.
( or perhaps you all like to see a CLUELESS TM as usual, with nobody taking charge of the pitch for them, eh? )


btw, TM plays in TEHRAN, a totally different venue than saudi and its weather and ... etc.
( Saudi has low altitude and a more humid [energy sapping] clime as opposed to tehran's higher altitude with a drier air )

so it'd be nice if we stopped following the "party-line" and adopted more logic and fairness.
believe me the skies will not fall, nor will it rain frogs if we say something agonist to the "party-line".
Anything, as long as it is aligned with the "party-line", eh?

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[Martin-Reza]

We have a La Liga player available for Karimi's spot and a lot of other good offensive players as well. Karimi is not fit - and that is not just about him not being able to play more than 60 mins, but also about him not being able to perform as good as he could during that 60 mins.

TM staff initially planned without him and what he showed can't be enough to add him now.

[Doctor DOOM]

We have a La Liga player available for Karimi's spot and a lot of other good offensive players as well. Karimi is not fit - and that is not just about him not being able to play more than 60 mins, but also about him not being able to perform as good as he could during that 60 mins.

TM staff initially planned without him and what he showed can't be enough to add him now.

1- by that la liga player, you mean shojaei?
A) the same player who's NEVER placed in the playmaker role under daei ( whether the team needed one or not !!! a tragedy, this one ) ?
B) the same player who ironically is exactly what karimi was 5-6 years back, selfish and one who mindlessly dribbled and dribbled, but went nowhere?
C) the same one who now, HAS TO tackle and tangle ( properly. not his usual one which usually ends in fouls and yellow cards ) with the opponent's mids?

you mean THAT la liga player?

OK. my friend.
I'd be happy with crumbs ( see how low we have to stoop. as they say "be marg migirand ke be tab raazi beshim"!!! ). even if daei keeps shojaei in the center where he could direct traffic and be useful/creative to the team I think we shd be ok.
but will he?
or will daei, much like how he always has been, continue with his lajbaazi and push him to a side and use ..... ( cant imagine whom) in the center ?

honestly, which one do you think would happen?

My bet is on the side and not in the center. yours ?

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2- sorry to beat this point to a pulp ( but seeing ppl use the same excuse to rule out karimi, I'm compelled to use their own rationale ) , but did Nouri look like he's 100%?

did rezaei look like he's 100%?

does VH look like he's 100% ?

and many many more players who are already in the squad, but we suddenly become conscious of this "100% FITNESS - FETISH" when it comes to karimi !!!
doesnt it look fishy?

===============

finally I have to say I'd rather have a team that has a creative playmaker in it for 60 minutes than a team without one in 90 minutes.

coz in one scenario, the former team at least has extra chances to win a game, albeit for 60 minutes only.
the latter will be ... well ... the clueless team we've seen in recent games.

which one do you ppl choose?

[Mr.Good]

he was quite effective in most instances.
and yes, he ran out of gas on a couple of occasions & near the end, but considering we dont have Messi, Kaka, Xavi ... and the fact that none of navidkia , jabbari and mobaali are called , he still seems to be the best answer we have in CREATING chances for TM.
so unless you guys can wangle change of citizenship for xavi, kaka or ..., then you ARE sadly restricted to iranian players.
( or perhaps you all like to see a CLUELESS TM as usual, with nobody taking charge of the pitch for them, eh? )
btw, TM plays in TEHRAN, a totally different venue than saudi and its weather and ... etc.
( Saudi has low altitude and a more humid [energy sapping] clime as opposed to tehran's higher altitude with a drier air )
so it'd be nice if we stopped following the "party-line" and adopted more logic and fairness.
believe me the skies will not fall, nor will it rain frogs if we say something agonist to the "party-line".
Anything, as long as it is aligned with the "party-line", eh?
-----------------

you might want to check some facts before you talk, Reyadh is in the middle of the desert and have no humidity at all. At this time of the year, at night when the game was played the temperature is not more than 20 to 25 C. This is the perfect weather to play Football.

the fact of the matter is that Karimi is not his old self. he is not even a fraction of his old self. Karimi used to be fast, and he could take a hit or two, even when he was not at his best in 2004-2005 and you were complaining about him at every chance just like you do now about not having him. Did you even see the game today? Karimi did nothing even in the first half when he HAD energy.

[Martin-Reza]

@ DD, I don't think there can be any doubts about Hashemian being 100% fit.

I think Rezaei is in good shape, physically undoubtedly, and Nouri had a slight injury I think, but only one that kept him out for one game after starting in all matches before.

I think if Daei goes for a 4-2-3-1, we will see Shojaei in center, otherwise we will have no central OM and play some 4-4-2 with Rezaei as second striker. And yes, I mean that La Liga player who is constantly playing on highest level, something Karimi, at least currently, doesn't seem capeable of. I strongly doubt Camacho would even put Karimi on the bench currently.

@ Mr. Good, I agree. I think Karimi is currently handicapped by lacking fitness after an injury, so he can do better of course. Even in top shape he is not "must" invitation anymore though, and in current shape, it is no surprise for anyone not already having made up his mind Karimi must be in TM no matter what that he won't play against KSA.

[Doctor DOOM]

1-
Tehran altitude - 1200-1700 m
vs.
jeddah - 15 m
Riyadh altitude - 620 m
( I dont know where it was played )




2- if X is injured, then he is injured.
if a coach bases his decision to cut someone becoz he's injured, then that shd hold for everyone.
if an injured player ( who's been playing rather poorly recently ) is given time to recuperate and therefore is called, then the same ought to hold for another , who incidentally has been playing far more effective.

personally, I think this shdnt be the basis, coz many things can be factored in. but daei's EXCUSE was this!

3- if a coach bases his call ups on "whether a player plays 90 minutes" or not ( exact daei words ), then explaining VH and nouri and ..... seems to bring up the issues of bias and double standards !

personally, I think this shdnt be the basis either, coz many things can be factored in. but daei's EXCUSE was this!


4- I hold you in much higher place than accepting your questionable logic of "playing in la liga means you're better than X or Y who doesnt".
there are 1000 reasons that that reasoning is not as relevant as A>B.

for one thing, what shojaei DOES in those games shd be a strong indication of what he can DO. performance is a much more reliable factor.
far more weighty argument than the simple-minded "X is in europe, so is better than Y". you know it and I know u know it too.

I gave a clear example to this "reasoning" in another thread to someone and I think it holds true.
for example, Latifi was playing in europe at the same time karimi was in uae.
by this peculiar "reasoning", are we to say latifi was better than karimi, at that time?
pasha was still playing in europe when kaabi or ... ( pick any defender at TM ) were in Iran. did that mean pasha was better than these guys?

you know it is a baseless reasoning. so lets keep this for general forum, shall we?

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btw, my bet still stands.

[Martin-Reza]

I sometimes feel you intentionally twist facts. Latifi was a reserve for one of the suckiest teams in Austrian league.

Shojaei is a regular for one of the World's strongest leagues suckiest team .

That is a difference. Or do you seriously suggest Karimi would stand a chance in La Liga currently? He undoubtedly would in the suckiest Austrian team still...

[Doctor DOOM]

I sometimes feel you intentionally twist facts. Latifi was a reserve for one of the suckiest teams in Austrian league.

Shojaei is a regular for one of the World's strongest leagues suckiest team .

between the two of us ( everyone, plz look away from this point on ).
do you REALLY believe that? I mean are you saying that with a straight face and not laugh?
you know exactly what is being pointed at.

anyway .... it's just too amusing.


ok. ppl, you can look back now