Are we any good at all?

[Essi]

Ba ejazeye bozorgane F+. I will drop few lines about our beloved TM.

I have been thinking lately about our team, almost whenever I turn on my computer and visit the website. I'm thinking over and over again, how good are we (Say TM)? What level can we place TM's name if we had let say A,B,C which:

A- Powerhouse of Asia (Japan, South Korea, Australia),

B- Former powerhouse and former underdogs (KSA, UAE, Iraq, Uzbek, China)

C- Underdogs or whatever you want to call them (Thailand, Oman, Jordan, Qatar, Bahrain, Syria, North Korea)

I simply cant find a place for our team because:

A- Since the football is business there, they have excellent managemant, enviorment. They invest money, recruite, good coaches, they have excellent youth activity and development. They have strong domestic league with quality. They dont play so called "Deimi" football. They see fooball as a science. Thats why they almost qualify to every big competition such as World Cup, Olympic games, AC etc. Now comparing Iran, you just cant put us here. That would be unfair. We could have put Iran here few years back, not because we have been in this level but because other teams were not either, that's why we could sometimes beat them and that was not becuase we were so good but because we had one or two players who could simply do it for us. Iran-Australia 2-2 (Azizi), Iran-Korea 4-3 (Karimi), Iran-Japan 2-1 (Hashemian).

B- These teams have spent more and more money on their football, bringing former big name coaches, bringing ex-superstars to their leagues, have good enviorment but lack football skills. Thats why I think this is the highest level they can reach maybe with exception KSA. This level would maybe be appropriate? There is a problem with that as well.. We hardly can beat these teams in the competitions

C- These teams can at their best reach level B during a short period like (North Korea, Thailand, Bahrain) but in the end, they belong here but definitly not Iran.

Enough said about other asian teams, I have a feeling that maybe we dont deserve to play in World Cup with this performance and team. I mean World Cup is the place for the best teams from each continent. Are we among the best teams in Asia?

I simply dont think so at the moment and that's not only because of the Coach or IFF or any particular person but a collection of everything.

I dont think we have a enough enviorment.

I know that people in this forum wont be emotional when replying to this. That would have benn diffrent if I posted this in football forum, then 16 years old kids would have jumped at me, saying that we would beat Germany, Portugal, Netherlands etc with players like Karimi, Kia, Borhani...

[Doctor DOOM]

we may not be at the level A of this list. due to PLENTY of shortcomings and lacks.

but we are definitely in B and in a way, have the POTENTIAL to surpass B. ( so if there are more than 3 slots to a WC, we HAVE TO have vie for it. at different periods we deserve to be in the range of 4th to 6th in asia. nothing above & nothing below it )
but having the POTENTIAL is very different from actually achieving it .... as we're seeing these days.

talent-wise we are among the very best in asia.
but we fail in development of this talent.
and then fail even more in organization of the talent and other peripherals needed to get a football bloom at its best possible capability!!

so we end up with a deficient system in which lots of talented youth go to waste or get under-used or just fall by the way side becoz of lacks in sound fundamentals, pro set up and environment.

it's like having a BMW 8 series engine ( just to "haal bedam behet" ) that we fail to change the oil , put in a ford focus body with suspect tyres !!
Brrrrr...!

--------------

if we straighten out our management, basic Pro set up, youth scouting/development, .... etc , then with the help of our raw material we can reach the A category.
but when?
God knows.

[zzgloo]

Thank you Essi jaan..for a wise thread ....
A,B,C catagories you introduced ,does not show any trend, in which some persian gulf states and South east Asians are moveing up ( Bahrain,Qatar,UAE,Oman,Thailand ), some Westen Asian footballs such , Iran,Kuwait,Jordan,even Iraq are moveing down wards.
It appears Poletcial stability may also have something to say,in addition to budget and managements of each country.....
Back ward islamic regim and never ending bad decisions are bound to have negative effect on our football as well as ever growing exporting of , " not yet developed talents ",....which these are not going to be solved in any near future.......
the only positive things we have going for ourseleves are our huge fan base and love of football as well as 70 million large population !
I see in near future, for Bahrain to exceed us,if it has not already have,As they are a key country for us,and thier improvements would damage our status the most ......and saudis while they may be in slump, they will come back much faster than we could.......
Here is what I believe our level is currantly in top 1o of Asia:

1- japan
2-Australia
3-South Korea
4-Saudi's
5-Bahrain

...............

6-Iran
7-Iraq.
8-Uzbakistan
9-Qatar
10-North Korea/China

[Doctor DOOM]

I totally agree with bahram's "political stability" as one of the factors, which directly influences financial independence and investment and .... .

but bahrain above Iran?
that just guts me.
and I really dont think they are.
if there were to be anyone else above iran, I'd say china or iraq have the potential , at a given period, to be fifth with iran sixth. not bahrain.

[zzgloo]

payman Jaan....Thats why they say " haghighat Talkh ast "...............

1-Our system & Bad managements,
2- Not developeing talents due to premature exporting,
3-Naive coachings

are bound to do the damage....

Bahrainis have had excellent results against big guys ( japan,australia ,etc )....and they just keep improveiong.....they are the most improved team in asia, IMHO,in the last 6 years ! And our hatred toward them would not help us to exceed them......

[BehzadB]

Ba ejazeye bozorgane F+. I will drop few lines about our beloved TM.

shoma saheb ejazeye aziz...

you raise a valid question. I have been thinking about this very question as well..

my take is that, our football is extremely unpredictable. (a nicer word for Aliasghari).. and because of that we never know what to expect.. from a horrible performance in a half (say against UAE, or KSA, or even this last Kuwait game), to a fairly decent game (say against South Korea).. our ups and downs are so far apart, that it is difficult for us to predict how we will perform in the next game. It will not surprise me if we lost by 3 goals or won by 3 goals against KSA..

I remember Toos (our own good member), put it very nicely just before the WC 2006. He said, we are as good as Karimi is on a given day.. (Karimi was pretty good back then)..

Our football is simply player dependent football. Now we are as good as, say Nekounam, is on a given day.

[faraz]

Nice thread Essi jan.

Personally, I believe we compete at a level between A and B. I would actually put KSA right there with us as well in the 'we're not really A, but too good to be B' category.
In terms of deserving to make the World Cup or not, one or two positive results (should I say, 'moments' during the next couple of games) can entirely change that statement. I don't know how many of you saw the Kuwait game, but the second half was one of the best halves of football I have seen from Iran in a very long time and it did give me a little jolt of, otherwise non-existant, confidence.

At the end of the day though, it comes down to a particular moment of brilliance or failure that'll decide our passage, as I do not believe we can truly dominate any on of our opponents. As an example, take the last scene against UAE - one such 'moment' (albeit failure) can be the Rezaei 1 v 1 vs UAE that was missed. We talk about coaching and tactics so much that we forget it is the players who, at the end of the day, through correct decision making and a bit of luck, ultimately affect the score.

btw, Behzad makes an excellent point too. We are usually as good as our best players, so here's to Masoud and Neko tearing it up on Saturday!!

[Essi]

Dame hamegi garm. Behzad jan man chakeram. Enjoyed to read every single reply. Loved to see people look deeper into the problem instead of blaming only the coach, fans, player or one single factor.

This is why I'm proud to be one of the founder of this forum (F+)

However, I'm waiting for the KHODAS'S reply and input The king Martin-Reza .

ezat ziad

[zzgloo]

[The-Red]

good thread...
I can't see us in top 4, but I can't really say that we deserve less than top 5 either...Since Australia has moved in, I see our football as the FIFTH best in Asia.

[shayan20]

A.
we're going through a process of transition with lots of new players coming in plus a young coach who needs to settle in and get his final plans in place and inject into the team. So it doesn't necessarily mean we are not a powerhouse anymore. sure the rest of the teams like N.korea, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain all improving fast while we are at a slower pace.

every team goes through this period.
as Adnan's sig says " We will live through this crisis".

[RaginG Inferno]

The disagree with your methodology of ranking the teams. No matter how advanced the youth development and infrastructure it is, ultimately, not the determinant (or even relevant) factor, when assessing a team.

I think only one factor is important. Results. I don't see how we are inferior(or, indeed, superior) to South Korea, Australia or Japan. Our head to head record over the past 4 years against these teams demonstrates that(with the exception of Australia, as we haven't played them since...1997!).

Although the FIFA ranking is universally acknowledged to be flawed as a statistical analysis, I believe its focus on raw results to be the most accurate gauge of a team's quality.

[Doctor DOOM]

Actually I dont think we shd put that much in store of "results" if we're talking about the STRENGTH of a nation's football.

for example, england compared to Italy, france, germany, ... hasnt done jack in international football and their results have been very average and mediocre.
but tell me, are they a mediocre and average team ?
NO.
they belong to the class A teams alongside the more decorated germany, italy, france , ...

( I cant believe I'm actually defending the bloody wankers, the english !!! see what u made me do !!!!! )

... so in assessing the true strength of a nation's football, there are other factors that have to be included, like infrastructure, clubs, youth system, organizational and managerial strengths, .... etc.

we're not comparing only TM with socceroos or japan's XI or ... .

[Essi]

Well, today after watching three games, (Japan-Bahrain),(North Korea-UAE) and (Iran-KSA) I must say that I was pretty close with my rankings and post. We simply can not compete with the big teame anymore. People ask for Karimi but do you really think he would have made any different today and we had won? Just watch the game once more and try to focus on our defenders. They act so amateur specially when we concede the goals.

[Hadi]

you are right, no player would have made a difference.