For the sake of God, please stop the childish coach comparisons!

[Amin_]

Please, please, I'm begging you to stop the stupid childish comparisons of previous coaches to make a point.
It's so stupid that it hurts my eyes seeing some of us arguing like little kids, coming up with only results, while forgetting ALL OTHER FACTORS/CIRCUMSTANCES these results were achieved in, to "prove" that f.e. Branko was better than MK


I do not need to say this to F+ members, but just saying "Branko won this and that match, but MK lost to x and y, hence Branko > MK", or "Branko's team scored an average of ... and MK's team ..., so Branko is better" is just laughable.

Comparing previous coaches with the present ones (specally coaches from 15 years ago to the current one) is just insanely wrong!
There are soo mny factors that have to be taken into consideration that it just is not possible to make these comparisons; I'll name just a few:

* state of football Iran was in in that era; f.e. MK had to take over TM at its worst possible state...our football was at its lowest in our history.

* state of the league; we didn't even have a professional league back then and it was much worse than it is nowadays.

* state of the players; we did not have many nameworthy players, let alone legionaires. It was MK who got the guts to take a risk, throw some of the oldies out and start off with a new generation, hereby introducing players like Daei and Azizi (and many more) to our football.

* the way the team played, only results don't show everything.

* the opponents a team had to face and the state they were in.

* the time a coach is given; some coaches are given only 1 year, while others can work up to a major tournament for 4-5 years...


etc. etc. (I don't want to go through all of them)

======

The point is that there are soo many factors at hand, that it just isn't possible to make such comparisons between previous and present coaches. Soo many things have changed in the meantime, so many new players have risen up and fallen down, so much has happened to our other Asian rivals, so many..., that just coming up with some results to prove how one coach is supposed to be superior is unlogical and wrong!



Please forget about Branko, Qn, ..., they are all gone and it won't benefit us if we keep concentrating on the past and how "well or bad" they did compared to other coaches. I am getting tired of all the comparisons once a coach is being selected.

It was the same between Qn and Branko after the WC; it was the same between Qn and Daei after the AC; now it's between MK, Branko and Daei

We are not gaining anything putting our energy into these lame comparisons, just because we idolize one and hate the other. Please guys, stop this bad habit.


Ghorbanetoon,

Amin

[Doctor DOOM]

I agree.

we are in a unique situation and each situation is very different from another.

[Martin-Reza]

We are in a very normal situation in football, but IFF and the government paniced like a rabbit seeing a snake and sacked the coach.

They had no plan B and so after days of argument between dozens of domestic coaches who all wanted the job, a compromise was made among them.

No foreigner, no newbie was all that mattered to them. Nobody who could challenge their power.

So now we have someone having had the almost exactly results like Daei did now (apart from beating China twice), who also fell apart with Iran's keyplayers at the time.

Someone who has not coached any major team, or has ever come close to winning a title in football, apart from AC 1996.

I could talk about the stories being told about the Korea game back then, but I don't want to spread rumours.

I think we have the worst possible situation now. But still, a win in North Korea could even be achieved with a donkey on the bench.

I won't say we would win that anyway. That would be unfair. But as said at the beginning, we are in a quite usual situation in football, simply needing to deliver in the next game, no wonder needed.

[faraz]

Amin Jan,

I don't exactly understand what you are asking.

if you are asking us to simply not compare any of our past coaches, then what can we base our future decisions on? Shouldn't there be some sort of guidelines as to what we look for in a coach on a regular basis? What better guidelines than to let professionals assess the decisions coaches made in the past with resources available to them, compare that situation to the current one, and choose a coach based on that?

Maybe someone can tell me what the approach is to choosing a coach for our national team, other than he must pray and have a beard...

I don't know why it stings people so much that Branko was comfortably able to take us to the world cup? When it comes down to it, we are all talking about Branko here right? Let's stop hiding in the bush and come out with the real subject...

MK appointment is absolutely unbelievable, I may actually turn to Islam for an explanation of what's happened here...

[Martin-Reza]

MK appointment is absolutely unbelievable, I may actually turn to Islam for an explanation of what's happened here...

Lol, I guess you already found the answer by that.

[Doctor DOOM]

But still, a win in North Korea could even be achieved with a donkey on the bench.

you see ... it is crap like this that makes ppl lose respect for you.

akhe agha jan, if a donkey could win AT NKorea, a team that has 10 points, while we have only 6 ... then with you immense intelect please explain to us just what koind of animal it takes to NOT WIN AT UAE where everyone else had got 3 points.
or did you forget ppl may turn around and ask you such a thing?
so why do you embarrass yourself so?


how come your mouth stays shut with a coach who even fails to win our HOME games, but suddenly a donkey can win away to the second team in the group?
really?
what does that say about you , I wonder?


dont talk rubbish pesar-e khoob.
remember the quick sand story I told you earlier.

[maij]

Amin Agha ...I don't exactly understand your frustration and anger ( at least it seems like it !).

Of course , life must go one regardless to the painful event of installing a pious extremist as a head coach for Team Melli ( apparently some one claims that MK is a highly educated man !!!! if this is Education , then ridam be ein education...I rather be bi-savad , but respectable and honrorable )

Anyway...since your issue is with comparing coaching performances and/or results , there is no text book or rule book to define the comparisons in order to conclude which one is better. Many fans , experts and journalist tried to do these comparisons and every single one comes up with his own ruling , criteria and grading system...in fact , you have created your own in the post , so why not let other people do the same ???

Beside , people have bias and will twist the methods the way they want to in order to favor their candidates.

[Amin_]

Faraz jaan, you obviously misunderstood.

I did not mean to say to never compare coaches with eachother; I was talking about this habit of some to alwayss come up with only results and other stats to show how "superior" their favorite coach was and how bad the other candidate is.

And not only that, this is the case every single time a new candidate is beig introduced. At one point you have the "Branko supporters" coming up with all these stats to make a (pointless) point, and on the other side others trying to point out how this new candidate has a better record

I mean what's the point of discussing only results of matches from 15-20 years ago (and denying all other factors, see my first post), to say how Branko/Daei/Taghi were all better or worse than Naghi?!?!

Like I said, it was the same when Qn took over after the WC (Qn vs. Branko), it was the same after Daei took over (Qn vs. Daei), now it's Branko/Daei vs. MK.


Discuss the tactical aspects of the game and all that from past coaches to learn from them, but what's the point of representing dozens of game results from yearsss back in all these threads, arguing about how the points/game and goals/game averages?!


To be honest with all of you, I got a little sick after all those arguments between MR and Kaz in the football forum. It was getting so childish at one point that I just couldn't take it anymore (pls look at some of the threads in the FF of the last 5-6 hours)

[maij]

you see ... it is crap like this that makes ppl lose respect for you.

akhe agha jan, if a donkey could win AT NKorea, a team that has 10 points, while we have only 6 ... then with you immense intelect please explain to us just what koind of animal it takes to NOT WIN AT UAE where everyone else had got 3 points.
or did you forget ppl may turn around and ask you such a thing?
so why do you embarrass yourself so?


how come your mouth stays shut with a coach who even fails to win our HOME games, but suddenly a donkey can win away to the second team in the group?
really?
what does that say about you , I wonder?


dont talk rubbish pesar-e khoob.
remember the quick sand story I told you earlier.

On the contrary , I think anyone who believes that Mayeli Kohan , or any other coach for that matter , has an effect on the outcome of the game in North Korea ....is ******* ( you can fill the space with any imaginative vulgarity )

AND for the record....Martin Reza has been one of the best analyst of the game of football I have seen on these forums for as long as I remember....
That it my viewpoint , of course. You are free to think otherwise.

[BehzadB]

I agree. It don't matter anymore..

we have to beat NK.. even with ME and Doctor doom as the coach and MR as our Moshaver fanei..

[Martin-Reza]

Thank you Majeed jan, but that is not a compliment to me but an insult to the Forum, j/k

Amin is right, I got into a very childish argument with kaz and in that context this posting makes complete sense.

But we setteled it like sportsmen and are easy again after a tough fight.

lol @ Behzad, just theoretically is the Moshaver Fanei allowed to fire the coaching staff ?

[Amin_]

Majid jaan, please read my post directed to Faraz, it may show where my frustration came from. Also please take a look at some of the threads in FF of the last couple of hours if you got the time and you will see where I'm coming from

Anyway...since your issue is with comparing coaching performances and/or results , there is no text book or rule book to define the comparisons in order to conclude which one is better. Many fans , experts and journalist tried to do these comparisons and every single one comes up with his own ruling , criteria and grading system...in fact , you have created your own in the post , so why not let other people do the same ???

As for this part. Yes, there is no textbook, but it is obvious that the (few) points I mentioned (there are many more factors) can not be denied when comparing past and present coaches (specially when you go 15-20 years back).

Many many things have changed and way too many factors determine the performance and results of a team to just come up with some results (points/game average) to point out how one specific coach did better than the other from 15 years ago only because his points/game average is somewhat higher.

By doing that you are denying all the other factors (the ones I already mentioned, and many more that I didn't mention).

All I'm saying is that this constant comparisons of points/game averages and goals/game averages between Branko/Daei vs. other coaches will take us nowhere. The fact is that Branko is gone, same as Daei, that we are at a desperate 4th place and are almost eliminated.

Another fact since a few hours is that MK is the new coach and just like with Qn, whom I didn't want to become TM coach either, we have to support the coach and the team.

[Amin_]

Thank you Majeed jan, but that is not a compliment to me but an insult to the Forum, j/k

Amin is right, I got into a very childish argument with kaz and in that context this posting makes complete sense.

But we setteled it like sportsmen and are easy again after a tough fight.

lol @ Behzad, just theoretically is the Moshaver Fanei allowed to fire the coaching staff ?

Yes, it was a very nice gesture of you to make that success wishing thread. Damet garm.

[Doctor DOOM]

On the contrary , I think anyone who believes that Mayeli Kohan , or any other coach for that matter , has an effect on the outcome of the game in North Korea ....is ******* ( you can fill the space with any imaginative vulgarity )

1- that would be me. so what are you trying to say, agha majid?

2- how about "donkey" for "imaginative vulgarity" ? does "donkey" sit well with you?

3- a second read of posts here would do wonders, I prescribe.

AND for the record....Martin Reza has been one of the best analyst of the game of football I have seen on these forums for as long as I remember....
That it my viewpoint , of course. You are free to think otherwise.

well good for him.
I'm sure he is.
it's just that most his analyses proved to be wrong when his personal favoritism became mixed with the facts!
perhaps we shd step away from our likes and dislikes when we want to analyze games and teams.
that way, we could reach the truth better
dont you think so, agha majid?


=========================

now, a little bit about our famous "donkey's effect":

I believe if a coach ( or animal . whichever term that we're easy with) arranges the team well , according to the needs of the moment, and the form & nature of players ... our chances will increase.

rather than a coach who plays with 1 forward in a HOME game, gets equalized and still stays with 1 forward. falls behind and still sticks to 1 forward and forgets he has a freaking THIRD sub!

so, agha majid, to answer you short & sweet: YES, the choices a coach makes will weigh HEAVILY on the outcome of any game, NKorea game included.

am I sure MK will do the perfect thing and make all the correct decisions?
hell NO.
but at least I give myself a chance.



now, truth may be hard for some of us to swallow. that is human nature.
we cant help that.
but we certainly can help with " not throwing stones at others when we live in glass houses"

[Martin-Reza]

Yes, it was a very nice gesture of you to make that success wishing thread. Damet garm.

There is no option but supporting TM.

I think we are going down bigtime from now on (not just for this quali, but in upcoming years), but I see no alternative to going down with TM.

Some kind of fan matyrdom I guess .