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    Warning signals ...

    ... and this time, for ghotbi:

    the very first issue that came up was the planned 4 friendly games BEFORE the NK game. with 2 of them in China, one chinese nat'l team, the other a club.
    and 2 in Iran.

    There was a time we'd die for test games. Now, I cant imagine saying this, but this is way too many. becoz I'm thinking situation specifically and not in general terms.

    Fact 1- we've had a very long club season and naturally all players will be fatigued and dead tired. we dont want to make the same mistakes of WC06 once again here.
    these players NEED their rest and recovery period before being able to be put through HIGH-STRESS and STRAIN games . now, consider THREE such games in rapid succession!


    Fact 2- 4 of our clubs, even after IPL season ending, will be involved with ACL games, and almost all 4 will be playing for their survival ( at least 2 of them: ss and saba ) or for better positioning in advancement or warding off the 3rd placed teams ( the other 2: pp and sepahan ).

    Fact 3- these same clubs along with others will have the hazfi games too which is very crucial for the likes of pp and saba and sepahan if they dont get the IPL third rank.

    Fact 4- Travel in asia is one massive head ache. now, add IRI's proverbial screw ups and cheapskate behavior and you'll agree traveling between the two extreme ends of Asia is one hazardous mother.

    Fact 5- with new coach, ALL players would want to be either called up or even get poll position in starting line up. That means they will push themselves beyond their limit in these test games, to impress and stamp their authority. this only ADDS to the fatigue, stress and strain borne on their physique.


    Now, given all the above, is it wise to hold 4 friendly games before NK, given the ACL, HAzfi, IPL, fatigue, .... factors?
    I dont think so.


    Now, martin may rise up & say "he has to get to know the players and .... "
    and I will tell him ( as I did elsewhere ) these are NOT normal situations and given the circumstances there ought to be some compromises done. we wont get everything or anything perfect in this situation, even if we tried.

    secondly, it's not as if our players are total strangers to him. he's lead some, played against many and has watched ( and now, shd observe ) the rest of legionnaires. given he's a coach, he shd be able to assess each player's capability, character and position on his data and videos and info from his assistants ( Mr. Mohasses ... ).

    but if you want to do that at the cost of over-working the tired legs of all ur players, I dont think it's very wise.


    ----------------

    He seems to want to take ALL his squad to china and most probably to NKorea. and that doesnt make sense given the above discussion either.

    why drag a bunch of players you're not going to use to east asia, china, then to NKorea in a few days, then back to Iran in 3 days, and then drag them back to east asia, SKorea in 3-4 days after that?

    a perfectly normal and well-rested professional athlete will shows signs of fatigue with such a schedule. imagine our dead tired, semi-pro ( at best ) players!!!!

    #2
    Well, I am rising, but saying, don't worry, he knows better than you .

    Comment


      #3
      how did we get 4 friendlies? Only China game is supposedly all set.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by BehzadB View Post
        how did we get 4 friendlies? Only China game is supposedly all set.
        http://www.persianfootball.com/index...=1933&Itemid=2

        Comment


          #5

          thanks..

          Comment


            #6
            I agree with DD on this matter. Although he needs to take a closer look at the players, and what better opportunity than having friendlies, given the teams' tight schedule in IPL and ACL, having 4 friendlies sound a bit too much. Physical fitness will be a VITAL factor in our remaining 3 games, depleteing our players' energy by having one too many friendlies wont be a wise decision.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Martin-Reza View Post
              Well, I am rising, but saying, don't worry, he knows better than you .

              WOW .... now, where did I hear that before ...??? hmmmm......

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Doctor DOOM View Post
                WOW .... now, where did I hear that before ...??? hmmmm......
                Lol, maybe by repetition there can be a learning effect . But I just mean don't break your head, it's nothing any coach could possibly not regard, no matter how dumb he might be.

                I am even more worried about lacking match praxis for several players. The ACL clubs will have two more games within the next 3.5 weeks. The other IPL players will be without any games until the TM games.

                Zandi's season ended today. Teymourian's will do so next weekend.

                I guess many Iranian players can use match praxis, which includes our German benchwarmers too.

                Anyway, talking about repetition, did I already mention the tactical lineup you are using in your signature does not exist - at least it's not played intentionally ?

                Comment


                  #9
                  "lacking match practice"?
                  really?

                  perhaps u shd read a bit more about what is recommended after a long season of football.

                  besides, it's not as if these players are totally unfamiliar with each other that need "time and matches to get used to each other".
                  practice and coordination IS important. but in this UNIQUE situation, players' FITNESS is of even bigger priority ( AND MORE DETRIMENTAL ) than getting their coordination from 60% to 70%.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Dr D I agree with your point on the number of friendlies..... Just wanted to note in your lineup you should put Khal'atbari and Shojaie somewhere in there. I would defenitely like to see Hashemian and Kia benched or subbed in/out. They have disappointed time and again since WC 2006. I also would use Zandi for Madanchi. The other player which must be there is Alenemeh. He is a left back who aside from defending can score long distance goals.

                    The more I think about it, I realize we have many good players to choose from for each position except for a defenitive forward (like old school Daie and VH) and a defensive chief like Gol-Mo under Branko circa 2002-2004.
                    sigpic

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footbal...he_Asian_Games

                    Comment


                      #11
                      having seen the latest dast-eh gol from sepahan and ss I am becoming increasingly worried about player fatgiue and how it is adversely affecting our star performers and maing them error-prone to ridiculous extents.

                      a look at aghili's fumbling throughout the game was enough for me to really think about priorities at TM.
                      these are not regular mistakes seen from average defenders, let alone star performers and regular TM chaps like aghili. these are mistakes seen in 3rd division relegation teams. and I think fatigue is affecting our players' intelligence and decision making.

                      and we can clearly see the trend. not only in the players but in teams as well.
                      look at how our 4 candidates STARTED their ACL campaign. with good victories, or draws at strong opponents' home.
                      then it slwoly fizzled out and almost all 4 either lost or drew games they shd have won. and the longer it got, the worse the teams' got!

                      if we zoom in on individual players also we'd see the same trend. and that is a scary indicator.

                      If I were ghotbi I'd be extremely concerned about this.
                      I know he wants to get to know the team, the players' characteristics, capabilities, ... whatnots.
                      fine.
                      But I assume he's either coached some or has seen the rest while coaching pp. so he's not entirely blank here.
                      he knows about 60-70% of all players' capabilities and potential. that leaves about 30% which are extraordinary attributes of each player to be discovered through test games and friendlies.

                      that's all good ... if we werent facing this growing obstacle of fitness.

                      and IMO I would put players' fitness and match-readiness as much higher priority than knowing EVERYTHING about the player. and I'd rather go into NK game with a fully fit set of players even if I dont know all that's to know about them than a tired bunch whom I know have the potential for far more, but are not capable due to fatigue !!!


                      =======================


                      aside from physical fatigue, I'm afraid these repeated and numerous defeats and losses are taking their toll , MENTALLY, on so many of our players directly and on our football indirectly.

                      to lift this bunch out of this rut is going to be one gargantuan task!
                      to inject drive and motivation in a bunch who are losing to teams not even half as strong as theirs is one hell of a task.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Section 1 : Before going to China.......


                        A= about 18 days.
                        B= No legioners,for the first 10 days,and later some Arab clubs
                        legioners.
                        C= MosT asian club & Hazfi league teams have been eliminated,domestic league finished.
                        D=Ghotbi stated,he will not use bussy Club players.
                        E= may be only half TM players present.
                        F= two, friendly games,in 18 days,without any
                        bussy league players.

                        .................................................. ........

                        Section 2 : After going to China........

                        A= About 12 days.
                        B=legioners will join in.
                        C=TM players have been redeuced to 24.
                        D=Two friendly games with Chines,on turf !
                        F= last two days ,Light practices,in NK.

                        .................................................. ...........

                        Is Not that bad !!specilay when there are 41 players to start with,and less pressure on individual players and so many exchanges.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I am not sure if this results are connected to fatigue. If it is, it only speaks for bad stamina overall, because the opponents had an equally long season. The Iranian season overall surely is not longer and having more games than the European ones.

                          About the TM camp, noone of us has any experience in professional sport if I'm not mistaken. I have no physical education graduation or have any knowledge about player fitness and preperations which I could use to really critisize the coaching staff.

                          I personally just think it will depend much on what exactly is being done in the camp. Hard physical workout and a few key players playing in every test match doesn't sound like a good idea, but lighter training, more tactical workout and much rotation in the test games don't appear to be a problem to me.

                          But again, I am hardly qualify to oppose an experienced coaching staff here.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            ^
                            actually arab leagues are all very short and consist of very little teams.

                            and we cant compare our players fitness with european players fitnesses. thats a seperate issue.

                            but i think fatigue could just be one of the reasons.
                            we have to face reality. our players arent on the high levels of asia they used to be before.
                            neither can our coaches compete with the coaches in the middle east, japan and korea.

                            it was always our gheyrat and our players individual brilliance which mostly carried our teams shoulder to shoulder with other asian giants.
                            and now that this generation of iranian players are not as talented as the previous ones, we arent able to compete with them anymore.
                            and ofcourse, they are developing at a much faster pace than we are, if we are developing at all in the first place!
                            Originally posted by siavasharian
                            ESTEGHLAL:

                            بهترین خط دفاع.بهترین خط حمله.ثبت رکورد بیشترین گل زده.پر امتیاز ترین تیم ادوار لیگ برتر با ۴۰۹ امتیاز.پر افتخار ترین مربی لیگ برتر با دو قهرمانی
                            بهترین گلزن لیگ: آرش برهانی [استقلال] با ۲۱ گل زدهبهترین خط حمله: استقلال تهران با ۷۰ گل زده

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by yashar_fasihnia View Post
                              .....
                              and now that this generation of iranian players are not as talented as the previous ones, we arent able to compete with them anymore.
                              and ofcourse, they are developing at a much faster pace than we are, if we are developing at all in the first place!

                              I said the exact same thing about a year and a half ago, but most of the people dismissed it and kept on to the dream that we always produce a lot of talent and have the best technically gifted players, while in reality some TM starters still don't know how to stop the freaking ball, let alone being technically superior.
                              It's the typical iranian mentality to think we're good enough without needing to make an actual effort before it's too late. Now with evidence in hand, we need to relalize that at least currently, we're even far behind many asian countries in the technique department, which is what many people jump to bring forward as a cover up instead of admitting the shortcomings.
                              HOMER: Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether
                              you win or lose.... it's how drunk you get.

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