The most diplomatic list of TM candidates

[maij]

majid jan, I'm just following up with the "fishy" issue of calling up underserving players like kazemian and mobaali which apparently has raised many an eyebrow. coz even in a 41 man list, it is hard to imagine such lackluster performers. right ?

perhaps if that "fishy" remark was better explained, ppl wouldnt jump to the wrong conclusions

Oh yes, By all means ...I will explain the fishy part.

So , there is a lackluster team across the water that is struggling like hell to maintain its position in the first division in a league which is NOT supposed to be anywhere near the standard of our own league, yet this team manages to have 2 representatives in Team Melli .... !!!

If that does not sound fishy , then it is certainly not very consistent with the concept of selection of the best players ! What does Samereh , Kazemian and Mobali has in term of skill , achievements and ability that many promising players in IPL don't have ??

secondly, it is only fair to talk about "difficult situation" when we also look at HOW it was brought about.
dont you think so ?

Bravo Peyman....... I guess Ali Daei was also the reason behind Perspolis getting humiliated by the Qatari team, He is also to be blamed for the poor performance of Saba Battery in the ACL , after all he was a Saba player at some stage of his life......Hmmmm , let us see,,,,OH yes Daei was to be blamed for the disastrous exit from the First round of Javanan team in the Asian championship as well....I guess he never played for SS so we spare him from blemish for the blues failures in Asia.

Finally , Al Daei is truly guilty for Mahdavikia missing a setter against Saudi Arabia , and he is also accountable for Rezai's awful miss and selecting the lackluster ASHJARI and leaving Sattar Zare out...OH Yes ....

Yes Peyaman ....you are certainly right... he is culpable and he is the reason why Iran is where it is right now. It is only fair to blame the demise of the nation of one person becuse in Iran the definition of Team sport is lost in translation.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ I dont think ONLY the club's position shd be the criteria.

as you ARE aware, selection of players for a nat'l team is based on variety of factors.
and speaking more specifically, when our TM is struggling with its forwards, then it is NOT fishy at all to see a WIDER net cast to find a suitable forward ... hence ajman's samereh and kazemian.
apart from the fact that I think nobody thinks samereh would survive the first filter, Kazemian, however, does have the talent and is in pretty good form, enough to justify his inclusion.

if selection of a player was soooo wrong as to be dependent ONLY on the club ranking, then I wonder why did PP spend so much money to get a player from a relegated club !!!!

===================

samereh and kazemian are explained through the "wide net cast".
mobaali, if we put aside certain biases and agendas ( like attempting to justify other ppl's acts ) ... and basically if we talk "technically" only, then mobaali has definite rights to be in a 40 man list.
absolutely.
he brings MORE than enough to the table than many of the players used at TM in his posts.

======================

I dont see the relevance of bringing ACL clubs here. my point was when we talk about "TM being in a difficult situation", then it is also good to acknowledge HOW it was placed in such situations as well .... meaning how it lost opportunity after another to stay with the leading pack, if not be near the top.

and I hardly think anyone's holding ONE person responsible for this. so I dont see how you just zoom in on Daei here.

======================

and since you referred to the ksa game and the individual errors, perhaps you could acknowledge ( or explain?) other matters related to the game too , such as the substitution issues, single forward, .... etc etc which is reviewed in that thread ( link, above post )

[maij]

^ I dont think ONLY the club's position shd be the criteria.

as you ARE aware, selection of players for a nat'l team is based on variety of factors.
and speaking more specifically, when our TM is struggling with its forwards, then it is NOT fishy at all to see a WIDER net cast to find a suitable forward ... hence ajman's samereh and kazemian.
apart from the fact that I think nobody thinks samereh would survive the first filter, Kazemian, however, does have the talent and is in pretty good form, enough to justify his inclusion.

if selection of a player was soooo wrong as to be dependent ONLY on the club ranking, then I wonder why did PP spend so much money to get a player from a relegated club !!!!

I do acknowledge that a club's position is NOT the only pre-condition but it is in the higher or top percentages , else why a player from Zoghal Rasht or Mahi Giri Busher is not in Team Melli !

I am sorry Peyman jan....I am%

[Doctor DOOM]

I do acknowledge that a club's position is NOT the only pre-condition but it is in the higher or top percentages , else why a player from Zoghal Rasht or Mahi Giri Busher is not in Team Melli !

I am sorry Peyman jan....I am%

forgive me if I dont take this at face value coz when zareh was ( and interestingly, IS ) being called, I didnt ( and still dont ) see you raise the issue of "team ranking" about a team that lost to every tom, dick and harry in the past 5 months and is now relegated.

neither did I see any of this when hosseini or kaabi were being called while saipa was dead last in the league

So I think there are "other" matters at work here and not so much about what's on the surface

when I see uniformity and consistency in critique/praise, then I give credit.

[Martin-Reza]

when I see uniformity and consistency in critique/praise, then I give credit.

Every thought about the possibility that the "I see" might be the bigger problem than consistency in the critique ?

[Doctor DOOM]

huh?
... shd I have said "when I read ..." perhaps ?
does that satisfy you?

I thought we all understand what is being said when we say "I see ..." or "I read ..." here

[Martin-Reza]

No, it wasn't meant like that. It was a mean attack on you . I mean the problem in this case is not that the critique is not consistent, but that you don't see it.

Honestly, when Majeed says

I do acknowledge that a club's position is NOT the only pre-condition but it is in the higher or top percentages

and you reply by giving examples of players from less successful clubs being selected, I think you missed the point or are ignoring it.

[Doctor DOOM]

if you step back, you'd see my remark was quite relevant.

here, let me show you:
post #16

So , there is a lackluster team across the water that is struggling like hell to maintain its position in the first ....

if this is even ONE of the factors involved, then I have the right to expect the same scrutiny and high standards to be applied elsewhere and for other players as well.
I dont think anyone would argue if you called saipa or bargh or ... "lackluster" too. and .... you get my drift.

that's the point.

====================

besides we all follow football a bit deeper than some.
we know the NORM is for a newly promoted team it is too much to expect them to be setting a league on fire. in ANY league. be it uae or spanish la liga.
( hell, many of them fight not to drop back even )
I'm sure majid jan knows this as well or better than many of us.

why shd we expect ajman to be thrashing alain, alahli, alshabab, .... ??
so why dont we apply our knowledge and info to such matters also?


----------------
note 1-
in fact the extreme odd case that pops up every few decades is like kaiserslautern winning bundesliga on their promotion yr. in early 90's or something.


-----------------
note 2-
besides ajman reached as high as 4th and are now 8th. well away from drop zone
it doesnt look like they're dying at the bottom of the league like bargh did or how saipa was for a long period

[Martin-Reza]

^ Can you stop editing your posts all the time? They are like twice as long after the edit than before, with topics included which were not even mentioned before.

I mean rather take 2 mins more and submit the whole thing when it's done. Otherwise I always have to re-edit my reply again then when I don't quote the original post to show what I actually replied to.

[Doctor DOOM]

hehehee

I was about to do that again
( I'm busy with other things. and sometimes something relevant strikes me that I put in later. perils of multi-tasking )
sorry.



anyway, I wanted to add:
sometimes our urgency to "vindicate and justify our favorite ppl" we end up overlooking fairness.

[maij]

forgive me if I dont take this at face value coz when zareh was ( and interestingly, IS ) being called, I didnt ( and still dont ) see you raise the issue of "team ranking" about a team that lost to every tom, dick and harry in the past 5 months and is now relegated.

neither did I see any of this when hosseini or kaabi were being called while saipa was dead last in the league

So I think there are "other" matters at work here and not so much about what's on the surface

when I see uniformity and consistency in critique/praise, then I give credit.

The reason I have NOT mentioned those things that you believe in as issues, is simply because my name is NOT Peyman but Majeed. It is very important to realize this vital fact.


Trust me Peyman Jan , I am in no need of praise or credit. My basis of argument and debate is to enrich my own experience and understand certain things.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ ok, ... I dont know what the above meant (as if issues can be brought up only by "peyman"s of the world. No. ANYONE can and shd do the same if they find problems with them), but perhaps I shd say this :

If I criticize or hold certain standards of measurement for player X , I do the same for player Y too.
I dont hold one set of rules & measurements for X ( just becoz I like him or my favorite coach likes him or ... ) and another set for player Y ( just becoz my coach doesnt like him )

I guess my problem is that I expect everyone to do the same.
so I open my mouth and bring up similar circumstances where different references and inferences were drawn.
maybe THAT's my problem.

[Paradigm]

- my personal issues with the list:
missing -
Shakouri, who's been in magnificent form lately
Niki - despite his brainless performances, his physical hustling game may be needed in NKorea ( only )
Chavoshi - He's shown to be a very good marksman, especially scoring so many goals with such an inferior back up team, scoring against teams far better than his.
if samereh gets the nod, why not him?

Very well said.