My opinion regarding Ghotbi!!!

[zzgloo]

Majid Jaan, Martin e Aziz.....Thank you both, for careing to respond to my post regarding Daei.......
I have no claim I am right, even 50% of the times.............As I do admit I could very well be wrong about whole lot of Issues.......,including Daei..

It is also possible ,you two, ( who in this particular case ,think very much alike ), be wrong as well.....as it appears, you have common beliefe that :

A= all criticisms come from a same uncivilized source.
B= all critics are not qualified .

Which, I respect your opinion .....but please do not expect me to give them any more value,than you do of mine.....as it does not appear you state them with any less certainty/ or additional proof.
.................................................. ............................................
In all manegerial possitions in Iran.....there is a triangle of Power Abuse,Lack of qualification,and disrespect for people.....and Daei was a typical example.........and I am sure, you ,yourself know of hundreds more.........................................that is my opinion, nothing more.

[Martin-Reza]

^ Of course I could be wrong, but I don't see why I should suppose there would be personal feelings involved from the beginning, just because there have been reports from TM camp in 2006 that Daei and Karimi had some issues.

There are loads of logical and sporting reasons for a coach not to invite Karimi for the KSA match, so I don't see why repeatedly immediately the simple fact that Karimi was not invited is automatically equalled to Daei having personal issues with Karimi by os many people. This simply is not a logical conclusion. It's a possible option.

[Hajagha]

^

There are loads of logical and sporting reasons for a coach not to invite Karimi for the KSA match, so I don't see why repeatedly immediately the simple fact that Karimi was not invited is automatically equalled to Daei having personal issues with Karimi by os many people. This simply is not a logical conclusion. It's a possible option.

Loads of reasons? Give us some please while you can escape with the same reasons from inviting Bagheri, Kia, Vahid, Gholampoor, Zare, ....

Martin jan, it was obvious that Daei and Karimi met each other and everyone, I mean everyone except you, thought that the bad blood is washed out between them till they saw the list without Karimi. If you try to bring some imaginary reasons, you make sure that even Daei has no idea about your reasons.

Is that a trend here, when you get to support/criticize someone, you MUST NOT take the opposite position?

I see I am the only one with the swing vote.

[IranJavidan]

^ Of course I could be wrong, but I don't see why I should suppose there would be personal feelings involved from the beginning, just because there have been reports from TM camp in 2006 that Daei and Karimi had some issues.

There are loads of logical and sporting reasons for a coach not to invite Karimi for the KSA match, so I don't see why repeatedly immediately the simple fact that Karimi was not invited is automatically equalled to Daei having personal issues with Karimi by os many people. This simply is not a logical conclusion. It's a possible option.

Karimi and Daei were publicly battling it out, and you say there MAYBE was something between them?????

Out of your load, please list the top 5 logical and sporting reasons for Karimi not being invited for the game?

The logical conclusion is that they sat down and fixed their affairs, and right afterwards Karimi announced that he's at the team's service, yet his name did not show up on the list that Daei wrote...

[Martin-Reza]

Since I expect everyone to know what was going on before, I assume everything you say is based on Karimi's non-invitation for KSA.

So let's look at Karimi's games ahead of and after the KSA game.

The 3 IPL rounds before the game:

Out injured: http://www.iplstats.com/Week28/BGH_PER_28.htm
Out injured: http://www.iplstats.com/Week29/SEP_PER_29.htm
Out injured: http://www.iplstats.com/Week30/PER_MVT_30.htm

Daei then announced he doesn't think Karimi is fit and able to play for 90 mins and he will only invite him when fully fit.

Following this, Karimi played 53 mins in ACL, doing well, but being totally exhausted early in second half: http://images.the-afc.com/Documents/...s/367-2185.pdf

And 80 minutes the week after, although it was very obvious he was completely done after 60 mins: http://images.the-afc.com/Documents/...s/367-2182.pdf

I think Karimi wanted to stay on as long as possible to stil get a TM call, but it was rather obvious he wasn't fully fit.

And the IPL round after the KSA game, Karimi was again missing: http://www.iplstats.com/Week31/SAB_PER_31.htm

I don't get how anyone is ruling out he indeed was not fit, like Daei said. This very much supports that Karimi was struggling with fitness after an injury keeping him out of action for weeks.

And this is just the matchfitness issue, not even talking about form and his current overall strength compared to alternatives like Shojaei and Khalatbari.

I say the fitness issue alone would be enough in most cases to leave Karimi out of he is not the one and sole keyplayer for a tournament final.

To be honest, not even when fit, I would say he is a must-invitee. That is my personal opinion, and I wouldn't need personal issues with the guy to exclude him. His position is our strongest position, only 2 or 3 players with top fitness will make the squad, and in this case it were Shojaei and Khalatbari.

Of course, when mixing stuff, one can easily start to believe in such "personal issue" stuff. I mean where is the sense in claiming Bagheri would have played instead of Karimi when Bagheri NEVER was even invited when Karimi had been available?

[Hajagha]

To be honest, not even when fit, I would say he is a must-invitee. That is my personal opinion, and I wouldn't need personal issues with the guy to exclude him.

I can see you come up with only one reason and that's match fitness, while your first alternative, Shojaei just had a game 3 days prior to KSA match and long-distance flight plus not practice with the team. You see my excuses are even more conviencing for not inviting Shojaei. These excuses can go on and on forever.

Remember Kia's excuses? The excuses for not inviting him were vanished when he was invited while nothing was changed in Kia's situation.

Is it only Daei being angle in the land of corrupted people? Believe me, every single of invitation is based on very calculated scenario which the biggest portion of it is "financial situation".

I just read Majid brand-name replaced to Daei's mark in TM under Qotbi, what does that mean? Majid shirts are better? Don't kid yourself.

[Doctor DOOM]

And this is just the matchfitness issue, not even talking about form and his current overall strength compared to alternatives like Shojaei and Khalatbari.

... or sadeghi or gholamnejad or bagheri ... who were used in karimi's spot

btw, except a half ( in a friendly, which he used khalatbari in the center ... which I pointed out at his good performance and we discussed ... ) I didnt see either of khalatbari or shojaei being used in karimi's post.
they were constantly used in right or left of mid, instead of the middle !

[Martin-Reza]

I can see you come up with only one reason and that's match fitness, while your first alternative, Shojaei just had a game 3 days prior to KSA match and long-distance flight plus not practice with the team. You see my excuses are even more conviencing for not inviting Shojaei. These excuses can go on and on forever.
Remember Kia's excuses? The excuses for not inviting him were vanished when he was invited while nothing was changed in Kia's situation.
Is it only Daei being angle in the land of corrupted people? Believe me, every single of invitation is based on very calculated scenario which the biggest portion of it is "financial situation".
I just read Majid brand-name replaced to Daei's mark in TM under Qotbi, what does that mean? Majid shirts are better? Don't kid yourself.

You are again mixing several issues. Shojaei's fitness couldn't be in doubt, he might have been tired, but obviously Karimi was INJURED, that is something different.

... or sadeghi or gholamnejad or bagheri ... who were used in karimi's spot

Name me one game in which Karimi was available and Bagheri played.

Gholamnejad was tested in an RCM position in a 4-4-2 diamond as sub in friendlies, that's something else than where Karimi is playing. He didn't play OM. In an 18-men-squad you can't have a backup for every position, so it is ok to evaluate if in emergency certain players can cover other positions as well, if they left that impression in the league or in TM training.

Position-wise it was the same issue with Sadeghi. Those players never were in any relation to Karimi's. You could also complain about Bengar being there instead of Khalili, would make as much sense.

Instead of helping getting a clear picture, there are like 20 issues mixed into one.

Fact is, between February 13th 2009 and April 8th 2009, Karimi didn't play a single game over 90 minutes due to injury, overall even missing 4 of 6 games completely, playing exactly 123 mins at all. Yet Daei's claim Karimi wouldn't be fully fit for the March 28th game is rejected without any serious considerations and instead completely different issues like Ebrahim Sadeghi or Karim Bagheri are brought up.

[Hajagha]

You are again mixing several issues. Shojaei's fitness couldn't be in doubt, he might have been tired, but obviously Karimi was INJURED, that is something different.

Fact is, between February 13th 2009 and April 8th 2009, Karimi didn't play a single game over 90 minutes due to injury, overall even missing 4 of 6 games completely, playing exactly 123 mins at all. Yet Daei's claim Karimi wouldn't be fully fit for the March 28th game is rejected without any serious considerations and instead completely different issues like Ebrahim Sadeghi or Karim Bagheri are brought up.

As a matter of fact you are mixing issues and thinking about your opinions are fact:

Fact is: no one can play while he is injured.

Fact is: These two met each other to solve their problems.

Fact is: Daei once mentioned "I never invite Karimi again".

Fact is: Karimi announced that he will be playing for TM again.

Fact is: Hooman Afazeli mentioned in the TV that Karimi must mention he is playing for TM before inviting him again.

Fact is: 90% of fans love the guy and hated Daei for not inviting him.

Fact is: Several times some one was not invited for some stupid reasons while next time because of puplic pressure, the same person was invited.

Cheers is the last fact for the weekend.

[Doctor DOOM]

1- depends on what different ppl mean by "karimi being available"

2- I dont remember which game , but I clearly know G-nejad was brought for a central mid and actually discussed it here and others too made comments on it.

3- same with sadeghi. he WAS used as central mid when we could have ..... oh whatever. no point arguing

[Martin-Reza]

Haji jan, fact is also Karimi said he will not play for TM anymore, then Daei said he will be neve invited again, then Human said before being invited again Karimi must declare his willingness to come back again, then Karimi said he wants to play again and then Daei said Karimi will be invited again.

Facts change all the time, and you only picked those ones out which fit into your picture .

I really don't see why, when a player who is struggling with an injury for two months, including at least a week after the concerned match, is not invited and the coach says it is due to lack of fitness but also says that there is no doubt the player will surely feature in the other upcoming games when fit, the coach is being accused for abusing power and having personal issues.

This situation really doesn't require any personal issues to make sense. So I really would like to know what else is there to accuse Daei of that. The Karimi-KSA case is surely not strong enough to support this claim.

[Martin-Reza]

1- depends on what different ppl mean by "karimi being available"

2- I dont remember which game , but I clearly know G-nejad was brought for a central mid and actually discussed it here and others too made comments on it.

3- same with sadeghi. he WAS used as central mid when we could have ..... oh whatever. no point arguing

1) That is an important issue. Bagheri was invited after Karimi had announced his retirment from TM and never played a second after Karimi and Daei had basically agreed on Karimi's return. So there is no sense in arguing Bagheri was preferred over Karimi.

2) Yes, it happened even twice I think. Didn't that happen in WAFF? But not in real competitive matches. And as I explained an 18-men-squad requires that several players can cover more than one position and therefore testing if your RB and RMF backup can also help out in CM in emergency, if the coach has the impression that could work, is not really a big thing. Also I wouldn't really consider Karimi a serious CM option, so this had little to do with Karimi anyway. Maybe more with your friend Mobali .

3) Yeah, but Sadeghi is a CM, I think you forgot that the thing you were actually complaining about was that Sadeghi was used as RM (which I opposed and which started our still ongoing 4-4-2 diamond discussion). So again, I see little connection to Karimi.

[Hajagha]

the coach is being accused for...

You sound like you never lived in Iran,... oh, that's right, you never did.

Aziz jan, over there, nothing is absoulotly wrong or right.

No one is angle, even your beloved Daei.

If you were in Iran, you were "accused" of being paid by him.

mmmm, maybe all these mafia and media bubbles are accusation too.

[Doctor DOOM]

1- we all know bagheri's name came up only as a palliative to striking off karimi's name.
so they are related issues.



2- NO.
it was NOT only in WAFF.
it was in one of TM games, maybe in the previous round .
cant remember.


3- sadeghi was used in center as well as right.
you speak as if that was THE ONLY game sadeghi played at TM !!!!
hah!
we werent THAT lucky !


4- forgot to include K. rahmati in the list too.

[IranJavidan]

Agha Martin, remmber the crucial Jordan (I thin it was Jordan) game when Branko was the head coach? And he had issues with Khodadad but all of Iran wanted him in the team? I clearly remember him being subbed in around the 70th minute when we were 0-0. The arab commentator was like WHAT??! What is Branko trying to pull off here? Although I don't recal Azizi directly impacting that game technically, but psychologically, all the Jordan players knew his face. He's the one that scored that goal against Australia.....

Now for one moment, think of how the Saudi's would've felt like if they saw Karimi on our team. Even if we agree that he wasn't fully fit, wouldn't his inclusion have benefitted our team enough for him to b called up? I can't believe this is even up for debate! I initially thought that by playing those games, Daei was trying to motivate his best player for the most important game of their lives. But when the list was announced and Karimi was not there, I was shocked, just like most of the Iranian fotball family was, since EVERYONE was expecting to see his name on that lst.