How to get rid of Ali Karimi?

[Martin-Reza]

First of all calm down, some controverse title is needed to get the necessary attention .

What I'd like to discuss is the problem how to leave out an aging superstar who doesn't think about retiring himself. And we will have that issue with Karimi soon, may it be in a few months or 3 years.

But what can a coach do? As long as the player wants to play and doesn't agree his time is up, it will mean trouble.

Think about two very different examples of the past, Azizi and Daei.

Azizi was excluded rather early. Until 2006 there were calls to recall him, many people thought by inviting him back most of our problems would be solved.

On the other hand Daei was called up almost until the end and this wasn't less contriversial.

Now what if Ghotbi, or whoever will be coach, for example decides 2010 or 2011 that Karimi shouldn't be in TM anymore? It might be legitimate, but it is unlikely a big majority of the fans will agree with him; I am sure until long past his prime and long after he should be in TM, he will still know to impress to a certain extent in IPL.

There would be huge hashiyeh around TM in this case.

But it's not only about Karimi, also about Kia and others. But I think Karimi will be the biggest case. He is simply uniquely gifted and people love him.

Now what could the coach do and how could he do it?

Your thoughts please.

[BehzadB]

Simple!
don't call him up, he'll go away.
that's what it took to get Daie out..

but it's interesting you mention Karimi. I see him as the unlikeliest candidate for that sort of thing. He doesn't really like to play (he doesn't like the running part).. but he gets paid too much money right now to quit.. I really doubt we would have that kind of a problem with him.. he be the last guy to pull a daie on us..
how old is he anyways?

[Kasra.]

Behzad jaan he is 30 right now. 31 in november.

[Doctor DOOM]

fans will slowly stop this support as the player starts to decline. no matter how illustrious the player's past. Dont worry, the quality of the player's performance will ALWAYS catch up with him. ALWAYS.

we've seen that before. They dont come bigger than daei and it happened to him even. karimi is no exception

the only thing is the coach shd have enough spine and guts to acknowledge the current realities and put the player aside.
some coaches have that guts & spine, some are washed out wimps.


It also depends on "HOW" the coach uses the player.
if he constantly picks him as a fixed player , so much that ppl ridicule him for not even having the guts to sub the player, then you know something's terribly wrong here. This also raises the sensitivity of the fans towards the player and they will react out of norm and unfairly to him, which would need an intelligent coach to step in and rectify the matter , otherwise things will only escalate and .... well, we know how this story goes

But if the coach is intelligent, and uses this "fading star" sparingly and according to the quality of his performances, then I think it will not be such a huge issue with fans and they will accept the realities and change their attitude. and therefore, will be open to seeing the star lesser and lesser each time until it dies its natural death and he retires.


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I just wonder why we didnt see such threads in 2005 !!!

when karimi is 30-31 and is turning out a few good performances in his club games, while the 35 yr old daei wasnt doing well at all at club level , .... and yet, we didnt see such threads !!!

why all of the sudden this urgent need to force retirement on stars ?

[yashar_fasihnia]

considering we have some good attacking midfielders who are younger than karimi and in a few years, will be at their peak, i doubt karimi will be called and used so much.

besides, karimi is not the type of player who will be working his @$$ off until the age of 34 and 35 to try and get into TM (like daei did or kia and hashemian seem to do), i highly doubt it. his body wont be able to take it. i have a feeling he will retire soon, in 2 years or so..

so the chances of him being invited or atleast getting playtime will be very low.

[Hadi]

your argument is flawed.

Karimi is EXACTLY the kind of player who will retire from TM if he cant play well.

[maij]

Greetings from TEHRAN.


If Ali Karimi was a European player , he would have been excluded from selection to National Team as of post 2006 World Cup, however this is Iran we are talking about where 2+2 is not always 4 according to my Chauffeur.

So, the answer could be anything and on both extremes



BTW: Beautiful weather here , bloody good food and the girls seem to get prettier an prettier in Tehran....

[Martin-Reza]

@ Hadi: really? You see no chance that he thinks he's doing well enough, but the coach prefers other options?

It's not about playing bad, it's about others playing better in the coach's opionion, and barely ever any player benched or ousted agrees with that, and in case of popular players, also many many fans wouldn't.

And it's not only about Karimi, also about Mahdavikia and others as I already said. I personally believe Karimi will be the biggest "problem", because he really obviously has been gifted with unique talent and probably has won the most die-hard fans.

[Doctor DOOM]

I must agree w hadi here.

to me, karimi doesnt come across as the type who'd desperately CLING ON to his TM post. he's never looked that uber-motivated or that extra-driven !

[Martin-Reza]

I don't know if we are talking about the same thing.

First, this is not about a player who knows he shouldn't be in TM anymore, but egoistically hangs on to that. Rather a player usually rates himself better than a coach, than the other way round. I know dozens of players who think they must be in TM, but aren't, while I doubt there are too many players in TM who believe they shouldn't be there. That's not necessarily egoistic, that's just life.

Secondly, even if the player doesn't create troubles, the fans will. I don't think Azizi did too much to create fuzz around TM, fans and reporters were permanently increasing the pressure to include him. So it's not so much about the player, but about his fans.

And I don't see how any coach could avoid such troubles with fans, before a player like Karimi can barely move anymore - but his TM exclusion will probably come before that point, also depending on the alternatives of course, which in Karimi's case are rather strong.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

I feel also karimi is the type that he himself will retire when he realizes he cannot (doesn't want to ) run.

Ali Daei case was unique. The player didn't think to retire, even when fans were singing: "Daei Bayad Berakhse" " Daei haya Kon, TM ro raha kon", and if someone asked him why?, he started fighting with them. "Be shoma Rabt Nadareh"....

[Martin-Reza]

^ And you think there are no reasons to maybe retire him before the point he cannot run and he realizes that ?

[maij]

your argument is flawed.

Karimi is EXACTLY the kind of player who will retire from TM if he cant play well.

He is NOT the type to retire from a Team Melli or his club whenever he Thinks he can't play well....He is the type who decides when , what and whom he will play for. If he does not fancy it , then Bye Bye.

Frankly , I admire his perseverance in Perspolis , because it is NOT the type of luxury life , relaxing game and environment that he wants to play his game. He was allegedly on the brink of leaving PP twice (or retiring from football !) , once for reasons not clear to me and the other after he was mistreated by the fans who showered profanity at him.

AND like hell Karimi cares what people think of his game......

[Doctor DOOM]

Secondly, even if the player doesn't create troubles, the fans will. I don't think Azizi did too much to create fuzz around TM, fans and reporters were permanently increasing the pressure to include him. So it's not so much about the player, but about his fans.

And I don't see how any coach could avoid such troubles with fans, before a player like Karimi can barely move anymore - but his TM exclusion will probably come before that point, also depending on the alternatives of course, which in Karimi's case are rather strong.

on the contrary, azizi did create a whole lot of trouble for Ciro, starting from giving jersey #11 to someone in team training, to speaking to all the media and reporters about what a sly fox and charlatan Ciro is to .... etc.

even despite this much noise from azizi, fans slowly accepted the realities and apart from the rare chants of "azizi, azizi" ( when our other strikers were firing blanks ) one could see his support was on the decline.

now, karimi doesnt come across as someone who'd create this kind of trouble at all.

[Hajagha]

It's life, you get bored from what you have and miss what you lost.

Apply above formula to Azizi, Daei, Parvin, Karimi, Bagheri and whatever you like.