How to get rid of Ali Karimi?

[zzgloo]

We should :
Nither force players out........just because they are older :.( Azizi,and first bagheri retirement )
Nor,hang on to them for so long, and deny upportunity to younger talents: ( Daei )
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When a player has been a star for a while, he defenetly can at least be a good sub , specialy if there are no High quality challenges pushing him out.....

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A good way to part with old players, is to have them of the bench for a while.
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The case of Hashemian, is a good example......The guy has lost step,and is no longer what he used to be.....But, there are no choices in his position!, and he,with his experince, still is worthy of, at least bench duties.
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But, midfield, is a position, where we can get rid of players rather comfortably !
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The case of Rahman Rezaie,.in Central defense,is also a position,we should not change players too often either,because of high level of experince required by the position...and Rahman ,like Hashemian , is also worthy of at least being a reserved player.
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[Amin_]

Karimi will retire after the WC (if we make it). If not, then probably after the next AC, but he will not stay any longer.

I doubt he'll make much turmoil about his retirement. At least not "Daei"-like

[kaz]

You're talking about someone who doesn't put his personal gains before the team. Someone who while being begged by Branko to go save his hide in a WC match, told Shojaei to warm so he can get his chance. Someone who has already walked away from TM under Daei.

And he's 30-31. When he reaches 34 or something, then create this thread. This thread is meant to do nothing but stir the pot.

[Martin-Reza]

You're talking about someone who doesn't put his personal gains before the team. Someone who while being begged by Branko to go save his hide in a WC match, told Shojaei to warm so he can get his chance. Someone who has already walked away from TM under Daei.

You can't seriously claim it was something Karimi did for the team to refuse to be subbed in during World Cup. Yeah, he wanted to give a chance to Shojaei .

It is fine to support a player, but there must be limits in twisting and turning the facts and this is just ridiculous. Seriously man.

[maij]

You're talking about someone who doesn't put his personal gains before the team. Someone who while being begged by Branko to go save his hide in a WC match, told Shojaei to warm so he can get his chance. Someone who has already walked away from TM under Daei.

And he's 30-31. When he reaches 34 or something, then create this thread. This thread is meant to do nothing but stir the pot.

Excuse my indulgence , I am not quite sure of what you are saying. Are you saying that Karimi asked Shojaei to Warm up so that he gets his chance to play ?

And your statement about Karimi ".. who does not put his personal gains before the team " , proves that you really don't know the man.

[kaz]

You can't seriously claim it was something Karimi did for the team to refuse to be subbed in during World Cup. Yeah, he wanted to give a chance to Shojaei .

It is fine to support a player, but there must be limits in twisting and turning the facts and this is just ridiculous. Seriously man.

It's not about him doing something for the team - in the way Bagheri has stepped aside. It's about the fact that unlike Daei, he doesn't need to play every minute of every game, and in this case a WORLD CUP game, to feel important.

And that's what happened Branko wanted Karimi and Karimi declined pointing to Shojaei. So your concern about "getting rid of Karimi" is misplaced. You should have been worrying about such things back when Daei was the problem. Instead of trying to reason on behalf of your favoured coach, you should have acknowledged the problem back then. But as others have said...most footballers can step aside. It's a select few, like Daei, who don't know when to quit.

[kaz]

And your statement about Karimi ".. who does not put his personal gains before the team " , proves that you really don't know the man.

And YOU know him do you? Please, for you, someone who backed everything Ali Daei did and even made excuses for him at the end of his career when he had no business being in the team, to talk as if you know/can identify the kind of person who "doesn't put himself before the team" is just rich.

I lost count how many times I heard something along the lines of "Ali Daei is only playing because he cares". If that is what some people consider caring...then I'd rather he care less.

[Martin-Reza]

It's not about him doing something for the team - in the way Bagheri has stepped aside. It's about the fact that unlike Daei, he doesn't need to play every minute of every game, and in this case a WORLD CUP game, to feel important.

And that's what happened Branko wanted Karimi and Karimi declined pointing to Shojaei. So your concern about "getting rid of Karimi" is misplaced. You should have been worrying about such things back when Daei was the problem. Instead of trying to reason on behalf of your favoured coach, you should have acknowledged the problem back then. But as others have said...most footballers can step aside. It's a select few, like Daei, who don't know when to quit.

No Daei was not selfish but he wanted to avoid that Borhani would play too early on big stage which would ruin Borhani's career. Same logic as yours .

Anyway, Branko didn't want to sideline Daei obviously and GN did so without any big problem. Karimi's case will be different. The question of this thread is what the public will do when Karimi is suddenly not called up anymore and what a coach can do to avoid much trouble around TM without playing a popular player. It is highly unlikely the public will accept Karimi being sidelined before he really sucks, but probably his time in TM will be up before that.

Same with Mahdavikia, but Karimi is the type of player which fuels people's fantasies more than others, so the problem with his exclusion will probably be bigger.

[kaz]

No Daei was not selfish but he wanted to avoid that Borhani would play too early on big stage which would ruin Borhani's career. Same logic as yours .

What? Where does that resemble my logic? You feeling well?

Anyway, Branko didn't want to sideline Daei obviously and GN did so without any big problem. Karimi's case will be different. The question of this thread is what the public will do when Karimi is suddenly not called up anymore and what a coach can do to avoid much trouble around TM without playing a popular player. It is highly unlikely the public will accept Karimi being sidelined before he really sucks, but probably his time in TM will be up before that.

Same with Mahdavikia, but Karimi is the type of player which fuels people's fantasies more than others, so the problem with his exclusion will probably be bigger.

If they deserve to be on the side, they should be on the side. The fans will react depending on how Kia or Karimi are playing towards the end of their careers and how much time they see, if any. I am sure even Daei could have justified playing towards the end of games at the end of his career, but the controversy was that he was ALWAYS playing...regardless the importance of the match.

[Martin-Reza]

If they deserve to be on the side, they should be on the side. The fans will react depending on how Kia or Karimi are playing towards the end of their careers and how much time they see, if any. I am sure even Daei could have justified playing towards the end of games at the end of his career, but the controversy was that he was ALWAYS playing...regardless the importance of the match.

You're mistake here imo is that you assume the public opinion is corresponding with the truth. Very often it's not. On the other hand the coach's opinion corresponds with the truth much more often.

And in Karimi's case, there can be no doubt that many fans will not be d'accord with the coach who first decides to leave him out. And the chances, like always, will be very high that the coach is right and the fans won't. But is there any chance that he gets his will without a big uprising?

I guess the chances are very little in Karimi's case. Karimi refused to get subbed in during World Cup, he refused to join TM when called up ahead of an important qualifier (and that in a rather classless and unprofessional way, going over the media instead of talking to the coach in advance) and yet, despite his club career being heavily on decline since 2006, a big portion of the fans blame all of his failures on his coaches, not on himself.

It doesn't take a genius to realize what trouble TM will be in when a coach decides his time in TM is finally up - which, looking at his physique, will not be in more than 2-3 years maximum.

Only other chance I see is that Karimi hangs up his shoes before his time's up, which some suggested. That also wouldn't be too cool, because if the coach would like to use him and he is fit to join, it's pretty ****ed up to let TM down.

But the main problem with a Karimi-exclusion is not Karimi, it's the fans. And the sole point of this thread was how a coach could best retire an aging star without being hated by many fans.

[maij]

And YOU know him do you? Please, for you, someone who backed everything Ali Daei did and even made excuses for him at the end of his career when he had no business being in the team, to talk as if you know/can identify the kind of person who "doesn't put himself before the team" is just rich.

I lost count how many times I heard something along the lines of "Ali Daei is only playing because he cares". If that is what some people consider caring...then I'd rather he care less.

Yes of course I know him , both of them in fact , hence I judge my opinions based on that. This is why I thought that you might have met , talked or interviewed a different Ali Karimi than the one I know.

You might know Karimi better than me , I certainly have no problem with that , but how much of this is authentic ? How well do YOU know him , personally , professionally or just formed an opinion like the rest of the lads?


BTW: I think your reference to Ali Daei is nothing short of inherent childish, stubborn and vindictive behavior. The subject is Karimi but your grudge, resentment and hatred jolts your stability in such a way that you cannot express yourself in any subject unless you refer to Daei as a blackmail tool ..... Quite pathetic.

[Hadi]

@ Hadi: really? You see no chance that he thinks he's doing well enough, but the coach prefers other options?

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no no there is a chance of that.
But if his coach, or the fans dont want him to play for a team anymore, he wont insist (even if he thinks he is good enough). Thats just his personality.

[kami_kakashi]

You're mistake here imo is that you assume the public opinion is corresponding with the truth. Very often it's not. On the other hand the coach's opinion corresponds with the truth much more often.

And in Karimi's case, there can be no doubt that many fans will not be d'accord with the coach who first decides to leave him out. And the chances, like always, will be very high that the coach is right and the fans won't. But is there any chance that he gets his will without a big uprising?

I guess the chances are very little in Karimi's case. Karimi refused to get subbed in during World Cup, he refused to join TM when called up ahead of an important qualifier (and that in a rather classless and unprofessional way, going over the media instead of talking to the coach in advance) and yet, despite his club career being heavily on decline since 2006, a big portion of the fans blame all of his failures on his coaches, not on himself.

It doesn't take a genius to realize what trouble TM will be in when a coach decides his time in TM is finally up - which, looking at his physique, will not be in more than 2-3 years maximum.

Only other chance I see is that Karimi hangs up his shoes before his time's up, which some suggested. That also wouldn't be too cool, because if the coach would like to use him and he is fit to join, it's pretty ****ed up to let TM down.

But the main problem with a Karimi-exclusion is not Karimi, it's the fans. And the sole point of this thread was how a coach could best retire an aging star without being hated by many fans.

Actually Karimi is a very approachable person. A real coach who is does not think he is a god (like a certain coach who was once confronted on the subject of his experience and competence and he responded by "Rottle Muller ham zire daste man kar mikone") will have a chat will Karimi and outline his position... At this very moment Ghotbi can easily pull Karimi and Shojaei to a corner and say "Mr Karimi I believe Shojaei is a great replacement for you and I would like him to start gaining experience by taking your place" Karimi's personality is a in a way that will welcome that and he will step down and release a press conference inviting fans to support the move as long as you don't insult him or his intelligence...

He was never ever a player who thought he is remembered by the quantity of his game rather the quality of them. As oppose to other suspects.

You can't even compare the respect fans have for his opinion with any other player in Iran. All these years he has been one of few players to always make comments that are basically "Harfe dele tamashachiha" without sucking up to Mullahs, going to the Parliament or sending condolences to Ayatollah Behjat...

All it takes with him is friendly and honest approach.

[BehzadB]

But the main problem with a Karimi-exclusion is not Karimi, it's the fans. And the sole point of this thread was how a coach could best retire an aging star without being hated by many fans.

A good coach wouldn't care what the fans think. If HE doesn't want an aging star, then HE simply doesn't call him up. He would trust that people understand he has the right to call up whomever he wants. and if the fans don't understand it, then too bad.. but then if his team is successful, he is called a great coach. if not, he is called an idiot.. hey, it's tough to be a coach.. don't have the guts, don't go into coaching.


Karimi can still play in two more World Cups and still be younger than Daie when he played his last world cup... hey, Karimi might go for the record. the only Iranian with 3 WC appearance. .. It all starts with beating North Korea , first.

[Martin-Reza]

no no there is a chance of that.
But if his coach, or the fans dont want him to play for a team anymore, he wont insist (even if he thinks he is good enough). Thats just his personality.

Well, and this also goes for Kami and Behzad, I don't think Karimi himself necessarily is the problem in such a situation, I think the fans are. And of course the coach shouldn't be influenced by the fans, but is there a clever way to avoid a huge uprising by the public, which surely would hurt the team?

I mean what is Karimi supposed to say then, "Hey folks, don't complain, I am not good enough anymore"? He surely won't think so and won't do that, no player would. And even then I doubt too many critics would start liking the coach again. He can barely influence the crowd in a positive way. He could stir even more controversy by talking bs to the media, which in Karimi's case might indeed not be the case (although I am not sure about that either, the guy's gotta big ego).