ACL strategy for our clubs

[Doctor DOOM]

Having seen how our teams drop form in the crucial periods of ACL group games and considering we havent made much headway in ACL for a very long time, barring sepahan's exceptional run, I think our clubs and management shd start investing more time, planning and money on these games.
coz sure as hell, whatever they're doing isnt cutting it and our teams are suffering.

1- RETENTION OF SUCCESSFUL SQUAD
we've seen on countless occasions where any successful team ( especially non-ss & PP clubs ) get emptied and robbed of their stars at the end of the season!

For one thing, I think our qualifying clubs shd primarily try to retain their stars and not sell them, unless they can replace them with as good or better players.
b'coz if it is money & revenues they are after, as far as I know ACL games do pay teams well on wins and even draws, they get some revenues off AFC.
So they may have to forgo a bit of money, but retain their strength to gain as much during the ACL games.

I assume this year, IRIB will have to cough up the money they're supposed to pay to the league and that certainly is a big help for many teams.

for example, this Zob-Ahan without khalatbari, ashjari, Castro, Haddadi and Farhadi ( players I assume will be highly sought after by other teams ) and without Endoy, will become a very ordinary IPL team and a shooting duck in ACL games !
something ought to be done about this.

2- TRANSFER SEASONS
secondly, I think IFF shd make a provision in the 2 transfer seasons that the priority is given to the ACL-qualifying teams and once they are through with their purchases, then the rest of IPL teams are allowed to get into the market.

it may seem unfair to other IPL teams, but in the end, it makes IRAN's bid at ACL a bit more strong.


3- SQUAD
These teams shd try to have a larger squad for the season and if there are limits to the number of players, IPL officials shd allow exceptions for these teams to stock well for the season.


4- IPL SEASON
I strongly believe we dont have the quality, nor the infrastructure to pull an 18 team league. perhaps reducing the league to 16 teams will ensure higher quality games as well as higher chance for our ACL-going teams at the end of season.
Of course, unnecessary and illogical breaks in the season is another thing that we shd not see in a football that has claims of "professionalism" .

any other suggestions?

[yashar_fasihnia]

i really think we need some better coaches in iran, specially ACL teams who are gonna face highly experienced south american and european coaches!

maybe some good quality foreign players can also help, specially in departments such as strikers where we lack right now in iran.
strikers like alizadeh, abbasfard, fazli, bayatinia, even khatibi dont cut it anymore.

also, as an extenstion of the "SQUAD RETENTION" police, we might wanna have some kind of a treaty that ACL teams cant take away teams from each other.
for example, if esteghlal and perspolis sign key players from mes and zobahan, they are gonna get screwed!

[Doctor DOOM]

I agree w yashar on the inter-ACL-club transfers rule

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in related news :

محمدرضا خلعتبری :
ذوب آهن شایسته قهرمانی بود / یک فصل دیگر در اصفهان می مانم
مهاجم تیم فوتبال ذوب آهن قهرمانی در رقابتهای جام حذفی را حق این تیم و هوادارانش دانست.

به گزارش خبرنگار مهر، محمدرضا خلعتبری که در حاشیه جشن قهرمانی تیم فوتبال ذوب آهن در ورزشگاه فولادشهر با خبرنگاران گفتگو می کرد ضمن بیان این مطلب افزود: ما این شایستگی را داشتیم که در رقابتهای لیگ برتر به عنوان قهرمانی دست پیدا کنیم اما شرایط به گونه ای رقم خورد که این امر میسر نشد.

وی ادامه داد: به همین دلیل با تمام توان در دیدار برابر راه آهن به میدان رفتیم و با آنکه حریف خوب و قدرتمندی را پیش رو داشتیم اما به هر حال محکوم به پیروزی بودیم و خدا را شکر می کنیم که به آن دست پیدا کردیم.

مهاجم ذوب آهن تصریح کرد: از اینکه تیم ما قهرمان شده است بسیار خوشحالم و این قهرمانی را به هواداران ذوب آهن تقدیم می کنم.

وی در مورد وضعیت فصل آینده اش نیز گفت: من یکسال دیگر با ذوب آهن قرارداد دارم و قطعا در این تیم خواهم ماند.

and

عزیز محمدی اعلام کرد:
جذب 6 بازیکن لیگ برتری و چهار خارجی برای فصل آینده/ دعوت از متخلفان
رئیس سازمان لیگ برتر فدراسیون فوتبال از امکان جذب 6 بازیکن لیگ برتری و 4 بازیکن خارجی از سوی تیم های لیگی برای فصل آینده خبر داد.

[maij]

I believe that Doc has touched on important issues.

I would add two more issues to that list which is very difficult to tackle.

1- Cultural issues
2- Lack of quality strikers.

The cultural issues is a complex one that needs pages to discuss and dissect. Even after decades of following Iranian football affairs , I am amazed about the magnitude of corruption in Iran's football. Corruption includes financial , moral , ethical and political. Many events does not even make it as rumors. There are cover ups , there are under the table payment , there is a huge business in players transfer market , hence the stability that the Doc is reffering to.....that is simply one part , I have not even mentioned the fans , the media , the government and the clouts of influential people running football.


Lack of quality striker is something that the generations can take care of. I doubt that you can train a player to become a prolific striker. It is a talent and if this talent is capitilzed on it becomes a jewel. In Iran , the best strikers of the league are nothing more than averge or mediocre at Asian level. Players like Borhani reached their peak quite early and frankly he is sometimes an embarresement despite my persoanl affection and support of him. Hashemian scores once in a blue moon yet he was never a prolific striker at his best. Fazli is like 38 years old and nothing special and the list goes on.....

[Doctor DOOM]

with due respect to majid jan,
yes, there are plenty of other factors involved such as those mentioned by everyone here.

and it goes back to the age-old argument of ( I know persi would come up with his famous "een khar mireh ..." remarks ) tending to the needs of our football from the most basic and fundamental levels.

but I still maintain we can have a dual approach of having BOTH long term planning, which comprises of majid jan's cultural issues , professionalism, and infrastructural matters and ... .
and have short term goals that are a bit more practical and doable with an incompetent and useless set of officials and ppl at IFF.

in utopia, we shd expect both needs to be attended.
but in Iran, when a simple league schedule cannot be made and if it is , it is discarded halfway due to mindless excuses and ... , then it may be a tad too much asking for fundamental changes and overhauling of foundations right now.

just as persi & many of us have been saying we need to tend to our basic and infrastructural needs and set a solid foundation and mere changing of thie coach or that player or that manager doesnt change anything", ... well, guess what?
we're not very far off from where we were a decade or so ago, with scant correction in terms of our fundamentals.

we've been talking about the need to educate the fans and make the players be more professional in their attitude for years now. and not only we here. but experts have been doing so on radio and TV in Iran also. to what end?
what's changed?
nothing much!

we still see ill cultured fans , we still hear ppl's jadd-o-abaad brought in front of their eyes in games, we still see players behave like total idiots and amateurs, we still see crappy organization and scheduling and ... .

I, for one have given up.
I did a loooong time ago.
that's why I am always for small steps and little remedies , as superficial or temporary as they seem.
coz I believe we're too far gone on the wrong road that our best hopes are these small, superficial and temporary changes to slowly correct course by couple of degrees each time, rather than a complete U-turn and reversal ... ( which IS needed, but I know will never come )!

========================

afterall how many positive fundamental decisions have been taken and then realized in the past 3 decades?

I can only think of a few ( less than an handful !!!!! ).

1- start of the PRO league

2- Building a specific camp for TM

( I, personally would add: "Banning of foreign keepers from IPL", but that's open to arguemtn and has its pros and cons )

both of which have been done under Farahani's rule.
I really cant think of anything infrastructural done apart from these.
can anyone ?

I remember all clubs were warned on the first season of pro league, to get their act together and satisfy all the criteria for a professional CLUB, not a team. warned with expulsion to the lower leagues.
which meant their own club facilities, stadium, ....
after 9 years, exactly how many clubs have ALL the requisites?
less than a handful.

same thing with coaches and the requirement for their A license and ... .
and same with so many other aspects of our football !!!

hell, just recently, we had a major club fail to use their FAX machine to send their squad to the AFC for the all important continental games !!!!

that's why I say ONLY small and little course corrections are possible with Iran, albeit their temporary and superficial nature.

[Doctor DOOM]

ctd:

... and that's why when I see ppl say "let fifa or AFC ban us for a year, so we'd learn", I say noway.

not only we'll never learn ( have we? from throwing explosives in NKorea game and getting a crowd-ban? we've gotten WORSE. just ask the poor soldier who lost his eye sight !!!!! ), but by banning Iran, that little joy and amusement ppl have in Iran also will be taken away.
and our football , instead of correcting its course, will go further down the wrong path by getting isolated and 10 times weaker !

[zzgloo]

i really think we need some better coaches in iran, specially ACL teams who are gonna face highly experienced south american and european coaches

No other issue has been so obviouse in our exposure to foreign football !
many many have admited the short comeings of our coaches , when it comes to international challenges.
So many third rate, or even forth rate forign coaches have come to Iran, and did better than our vetran domestic coaches,despite being in a forein land and in a forein culture......
All our domestic coaches ,without exception ,have done poorly out side of Iran.
Almost, no Domestic coaches have been hired by the outsiders.

lack of knowledge of international football,
lack of Education.
lack of Knowledge of a foreign Language.
lack of Internet & Computer " Know how "
lack of proper & demanding background.
lack of Knowledge of manegment.
lack of psycoloical skills.

[Doctor DOOM]

we have some reaaallll crazy managers in Iran too.

take abumoslem's for an instance.
first he talks about being paly with Tigana and claiming he;s going to get him over marsaille's bid !!!!!!!!!!

and then he brings up the name of stoichkov and says it's a done deal. .... which it is NOT.

but bringing BIG NAMEs does not guarantee success.
I think Vingo did wonderfully with foolad and I'd even say if parvin had given him time and space, he'd have done a good job at pp too.
but he isnt such a famous name.

or Luka, who isnt exactly on par with ciro's or Ivic's of europe. but he did a great job at foolad and then sepahan.

I think our managers shd act more responsibly and be more intelligent in choosing the coaches.

they have to understand big names expect a lot too, and they wont buckle under management's pressure to use this player or that either.
and they cost a lot too.
instead they can invest a little time in research, kick out all these dallals and in-between arseholes and bring in a practical option .
and give the chap at least two seasons to do his stuff.
dont be like arabs ... kick the chap out with the first bad loss.

[maij]

I know that the Doc is an advocate of partial mending (quick Fixes) of the football system in order to get some quick results and frankly I don't think many fans would mind if we win , but in reality when the foundations is weak , Championships & victories will be incidental and far apart.

However , there are too many gaps in Iran's football structure and organization , even quick fixes don't seem to work.

I don't really understand the insistence of some people here on foreigners !!! Foreign players , foreign coaches !!!!

Come on man , let us have some pride in our own. Let us build a cadre of quality coaches , rather than bringing them down. I truly believe that Ghalenoei is very right when he was quoted a few days back that " in Iran Coaches should not succeed , because it becomes a liability."

The cultural issue that I have mentioned has and will prevent good quality coaches to blossom and suceed. This twisted mentality ( beleif in foreigners and distrust of locals ) which is prevelant in the society as a whole , will hinder the progress of football. Insistence of fans most of whom lack knwokedge and speek from heart rather than mind , will pressureize clubs into big money deals with foreigh coaches while neglecting the essential grassroot development and basic club requirements.


PERSPOLIS does not own a Training ground , Yet it pays a million dollar for a coaching team.


Take that !!!!!!!

[yashar_fasihnia]

^
i dont think anyone is against building some top iranian coaches, but to do that, they need mentors.
they need someone to guide them and expose them more than just wat iranian coaches have learnt in iranian football.

and thats where good foreign coaches come in agha majeed.
by bringing in some good foreign coaches and assigning some young iranian coaches as assistants, they can learn a lot and hopefully become an asset for iranian football in the long run.

estilli was the best example. he worked with haan and denizli. he also worked under ghotbi.
now combine this wat he has learnt himself and hopefully will learn once he starts his own head coaching abilities and he can be a great success.

i dont think anyone is intending to put our coaches down. if anything, by assigning them as assistants to GOOD foreign coaches (not necessary first class but decent 2nd class coaches), we are helping them improve!

as for foreign players, majeed khan, u think we should go to ACL again with players like alizadeh, abbasfard, khatibi and fazli again and expect our teams to do miracles??

[maij]

^
i dont think anyone is against building some top iranian coaches, but to do that, they need mentors.
they need someone to guide them and expose them more than just wat iranian coaches have learnt in iranian football.

and thats where good foreign coaches come in agha majeed.
by bringing in some good foreign coaches and assigning some young iranian coaches as assistants, they can learn a lot and hopefully become an asset for iranian football in the long run.

estilli was the best example. he worked with haan and denizli. he also worked under ghotbi.
now combine this wat he has learnt himself and hopefully will learn once he starts his own head coaching abilities and he can be a great success.

i dont think anyone is intending to put our coaches down. if anything, by assigning them as assistants to GOOD foreign coaches (not necessary first class but decent 2nd class coaches), we are helping them improve!

as for foreign players, majeed khan, u think we should go to ACL again with players like alizadeh, abbasfard, khatibi and fazli again and expect our teams to do miracles??

Actually , I did not intend to discuss the mechanism of improving the quality of the Iranian coaches , and your suggestion is one of many that can be implemented.

My criticism is against those who see in foreign coaching the savior of Iran football.......That is a false impression. YES , good coaches are aplenty but they are not necessarily the prime reason for success. They are part of a chain of a collective system.

Look at the Persian Gulf states. In UAE, almost all the clubs First & Second division have foreign coaches and they have been like that for decades. Their clubs and national team have gained some success but it is not exactly earth shattering success . despite the tremendous resources including facilities that Iranian clubs can only dream about.


As for the players......Again one or two foreign players in the team will not have a great affect on the fortunes of the team.
If their were better players than alizadeh, abbasfard & khatibi , they would have used them (BTW: Damet Garm for naming the three worst forwards in Iran's history as an example) , the problem is that the system is not producing quality forwards and partly because at the grassroots level , Iran does not have the proper training establishment , infrastructure , organization and resources to capitalize.

Nobody seems willing to invest for long and lasting term. If the fans are hungry for success and have no patience , then IFF , clubs or other organization will channel all the money trying to make a quick success like paying a huge amount of money to the coaches and foreign players rather than spending US$100,000 on building a small training facility for kids with potentials.


Japanese experience ( or something similar to it) should be a classic and be taught in Iran.

[zzgloo]

Protectionism does not work for Football !

Improveing Football, is very much like improveing manegments,and is very much like improveing economy.
There must be a learning process from international exchanges !
When a manager of Shoe factory does well, .it is not because he has good managerial talents learned from his childhood....It is because he had been working as assistant under several managers in different factories, and several non-factories,and picked up sound skills,and then he formed his own vision based on those experinces .
The reason, All western European countries have better Economies,is because of inter relations among them.
While,in Economy, " protectionism ", may help manufacturing bases ,and quantities !, as the case of " Ex-soviet " states....But, it is not good for Quality !
And contrary to " lenin's opinion in Economy ", in football, and indeed in Today's Iranian Football , " It is Quality , That is better than Quantity " !

[yashar_fasihnia]

Actually , I did not intend to discuss the mechanism of improving the quality of the Iranian coaches , and your suggestion is one of many that can be implemented.

My criticism is against those who see in foreign coaching the savior of Iran football.......That is a false impression. YES , good coaches are aplenty but they are not necessarily the prime reason for success. They are part of a chain of a collective system.

Look at the Persian Gulf states. In UAE, almost all the clubs First & Second division have foreign coaches and they have been like that for decades. Their clubs and national team have gained some success but it is not exactly earth shattering success . despite the tremendous resources including facilities that Iranian clubs can only dream about.


As for the players......Again one or two foreign players in the team will not have a great affect on the fortunes of the team.
If their were better players than alizadeh, abbasfard & khatibi , they would have used them (BTW: Damet Garm for naming the three worst forwards in Iran's history as an example) , the problem is that the system is not producing quality forwards and partly because at the grassroots level , Iran does not have the proper training establishment , infrastructure , organization and resources to capitalize.

Nobody seems willing to invest for long and lasting term. If the fans are hungry for success and have no patience , then IFF , clubs or other organization will channel all the money trying to make a quick success like paying a huge amount of money to the coaches and foreign players rather than spending US$100,000 on building a small training facility for kids with potentials.


Japanese experience ( or something similar to it) should be a classic and be taught in Iran.

totally correct, we have problems from the root which will only be fixed in long term, if at all the people in charge do take steps towards fixing them.

but we need some immediate short term solutions for short term results as well. example is getting some results in ACL.
the 3 worst strikers in iranian history which i mentioned are all strikers of our ACL clubs! (why else would i miss out on ahmad momenzadeh )

we have used good foreigners in our league like januario, emad reza, abolhail, petrovich, toure, castro,,,, so why shouldnt we get a few more to replace alizadeh, abbasfard, khatibi and the rest? thats my point..
the coaches would definitely use better strikers if they were available, but unfortunately, there arent.

so either our ACL teams sacrifice this chance of doing something in ACL by playing young inexperienced strikers or get some good foreign strikers, who can help the team, just like januario, castro, petrocvich and toureh are doing

and i definitely agree with u that only using foreign coaches wont help us, but they can sure improve the situation. while UAE is an example of using foreign coaches but not reaching anywhere (they also have a lot of their own problems, mainly lack of a big talent pool), the same japan who has succeeded so much in asian football has also used foreign coaches and players extensively! albeit, in a well planned, "hadafmand" programs which u also mentioned!