NKorea - Iran

[Martin-Reza]

^ Well, there is no problem in not liking the 4-2-3-1 formation. As you can read the argument was about the proposed alternative.

I actually think the 4-2-3-1 formation is one of the systems suiting Iran's strengths.

If you only look at the offense, it allows you to have 2 wingers and a central playmaker on the cost of a second striker, compared to a classic 4-4-2.

I think we traditionally have good wingers and good offensive midfielders, and not so many good strikers, so this system allows us to capitalize on those strengths.

Looking at the other alternatives, the 4-4-2 flat and the 4-3-3 do not have a central offensive player behind the strikers. The 4-4-2 diamond on the other hand doesn't allow us to have wingers or side midfielder, the width has to come from the fullbacks mostly.

With keyplayers like Karimi, Mahdavikia or Zandi aging, the advantages of a 4-2-3-1 for us are diminishing. I would have no problem with a more classic 4-4-2, without Karimi and with Shojaei or Khalatbari as supporting striker for example, but also maybe with a second more classic striker, like Borhani or even a second target striker. I also would have no problem with a 4-4-2 diamond, without Mahdavikia and a real left midfielder as well, and four more central midfielders instead.

But looking at the pool of players, I think playing with one striker and having more offensive players behind him instead, is not such a sacrifice, and therefore the 4-2-3-1 remains attractive.

[Doctor DOOM]

I actually think the 4-2-3-1 formation is one of the systems suiting Iran's strengths.

1- LOL ... coz we've been thrashing and pummeling asian teams left and right with ease ... getting 6 straight wins ... nay, 6 straight obliterations along the way !
right ?
hehehe ... martin jan, you just crack me up

how's ur soup turning out? tasted it yet? must be "blissful" !

oh, btw, while we're on the subject: exactly WHAT are Iran's strengths anyway?

If you only look at the offense, it allows you to have 2 wingers and a central playmaker on the cost of a second striker, compared to a classic 4-4-2.

I think we traditionally have good wingers and good offensive midfielders, and not so many good strikers, so this system allows us to capitalize on those strengths.

2- once again MORE MENTION OF "what SHOULD BE, according to the text books and magazine" and LESS MENTION OF "what ACTUALLY goes on in REALITY" !!!!!!

[Martin-Reza]

1- LOL ... coz we've been thrashing and pummeling asian teams left and right with ease ... getting 6 straight wins ... nay, 6 straight obliterations along the way !
right ?

Oh, I forgot, simply by using a good tactical system Hashemian becomes Eto'o, Karimi is 23 again and Aghili is the reborn Fraco Baresi.

Now do I have to explain to you that there are more factors determining the outcome of a game than plainly the tactical system?

2- once again MORE MENTION OF "what SHOULD BE, according to the text books and magazine" and LESS MENTION OF "what ACTUALLY goes on in REALITY" !!!!!!

The text books and magazines explain the reality. And I am surely not watching less football than you do. So what great inputs do you have for knowing the realities that much better than me and all the football literature written by people knowing more about football than you?

When you can distinguish a 4-3-3 from a 4-2-3-1, come back here.

[Mr.Good]

I have one suggestion here for Dr. Doom.

Why don't you place the formation in your signature, on a football field with the correct aspect ratios and look at how much space you are covering.

Keep in mind that:
1- in modern football, the players should play compact and close to each other.

2-Our defenders don't have the capability to play high up the field.

3- Our midfielders don't have at world class stamina..

[Ali Chicago]

I was able to watch the game today and this is my two cents:

CONS

A lot to mention but to list a few:

Shojaei was good in first half, the only dangerous player. Kia, Karimi and second half Shojaei = useless.

DM was ok, Nouri lacks some quality, but he did ok. Teymourian good.

.....
.

I don't characterize Shojaie as dangerous in the first half. Being very nice to him I would label him as so so.

But to be honest I think poor performance of Shojaie was an effect and not the cause (a symptom). Main reason was having Ando and Noori with none of them being able to act like an architect. Lack of Nekonaam in this game with his diagonal passes and changing the point of attack hurts us really bad. Look at the closest players to Shojaie. It was Nosrati which either wasn't able to had orders not to penetrate deep. That forced Shojaie to dribble and took away passing and one two options. On the contrary, see how close Kia was to Kaabi and how deep Kaabi penetrated.

I think Shojaie, Kia and even Karimi would have been a fair candidates for subs. Hashemian had to stay and Khalili be added. Specially we needed a win.

Summary: We lack creativity and power upfront, like this we have nothing to do at WC.

I repeat what I said above. Lack of creativity was due to having players like Ando and Noori that took away 2 out of the 5 mids out of offense.


PROS
The only positive point was pressing by our team and high level of physical conditioning our team exhibited. To best of my recollection Iran's team was never able to match Koran teams in pressing specially (first half and toward the end of the second half) so deep in their own field.

In summary, Ghotbi team didn't do too bad, but our situation is so grave that the TM performance wasn't enough.

[Martin-Reza]

I don't characterize Shojaie as dangerous in the first half. Being very nice to him I would label him as so so.

Generally I agree. The reason why I called him dangerous was that compared to the other two OMs, he could at least have scored on some occassions. He had three shots on goal rather early in the game. A good finisher would have won the game for us with those chances.

Karimi and Kia had no single shot on goal and they also were only involved in the creation of one scoring chance, which Hash then wasted.

So being "so so" was being dangerous in that Iranian team in first half .

[Martin-Reza]

I have one suggestion here for Dr. Doom.

Why don't you place the formation in your signature, on a football field with the correct aspect ratios and look at how much space you are covering.

Keep in mind that:
1- in modern football, the players should play compact and close to each other.

2-Our defenders don't have the capability to play high up the field.

3- Our midfielders don't have at world class stamina..

Exactly. It would demand a huge distance to be covered by the OM to help the DM covering an area he can never cover on his own.

Without going into theory of how much possible this generally is, I can't see Karimi doing that at all.

[zzgloo]

In summary, Ghotbi team didn't do too bad, but our situation is so grave that the TM performance wasn't enough.

....I agree,Ali Jaan....

We need time !!

For many reasons;

1-Being in transitional period.
2-So many coaching changes.
3-Bad decisions by IFF,including bad coaching selections.
4-Lack of time for same players to work with each other and create chamistry.
5-Hashieh.

TM, is not doing what is expected of her, as South Korea is doing....and if we could get lucky, and get qualified ,we will have enough time, to over come the top 5 deficiencies...and come up with a cohesive TM.

[Martin-Reza]

^ Indeed, we must not forget any coach needs time and Ghotbi couldn't work with the team very long, especially not with the legionnaires.

[Doctor DOOM]

I kept on wondering what martin & others are talking about referring to my signature and talking about spaces and whatnot ...
coz I kept on explaining there are 2 right & left mids and 2 central ones , with one having more defensive duties & the other more offensive ones. but they kept on with "impossible, outraguous, nonexistent, ..."!!!!

then it hit me.
they are looking at the PICTURE ( LOL ) in the signature and going "Oh, now, there's some space over there, and here's some more and ... !!!" LOL

now, I dont know what to tell these ppl or what to expect.
but it just tickles me that they take a simple PICTURE so literally !! hahaha

so check it out lads, if I made the picture this way:
kia--karimi--nekunam--madanchi
------VH ------ borhani -------
would you have said the same?


so for the sake of clarifying the confusing "PICTURE" for our friends here, I am going to make a new picture that makes it more simple for them.

My apologies for not making a better PICTURE the first time.




with nekunam ( or ando ) having a more defensive set of duties while karimi ( or mobaali ) have the more offensive ones.

and plz excuse the extra little bit of space on the left ( ur right ) of madanchi. that does not mean the team is more "inclined" to the right side ... it's just that I wanted to clarify the "picture" for you guys in a hurry .
hahahaha

but my friendly suggestion to you all: dont take pictures so LITERALLY next time.

no wonder martin was saying "it doesnt exist, it doesnt exist ..."!!
coz the PICTURE isnt a diamond nor a 4-4-1-1 , nor a ... !
my apologies for not being patient enough with my pictures.
I shall try to be more precise & patient next time.

so here's a more pleasing picture, let me steal a pic from a website so you guys wouldnt get more confused :


and before taking THIS one literally, no, they're all in the same team and the website has tried to distinguish between different lines.

[Hajagha]

The sake of making 100th post in this thread.

...and don't sweat a lot on formation much, there is a field, a ball and 11 players chasing the ball in the field. It's not rocket science.

[Martin-Reza]

The new one is better. You are now clearly assigning to central midfielders with all the duties coming with that. But in the end it comes down to the question if Karimi is suitable for a DM/CM position with the many defensive duties in that post. And I don't think it would be working well and be an improvement to our current situation.

But, like this, it's at least something that could happen in the real world as very offensive version. The other drawing suggests something wrong.

[Doctor DOOM]

The new one is better. You are now clearly assigning to central midfielders with all the duties coming with that. But in the end it comes down to the question if Karimi is suitable for a DM/CM position with the many defensive duties in that post. And I don't think it would be working well and be an improvement to our current situation.

But, like this, it's at least something that could happen in the real world as very offensive version. The other drawing suggests something wrong.

roo ke neest. sange paye ghazveeneh !!!

STOP looking at the picture and start READING the comments . it was the same thing being said ALL ALONG. only you would take a picture so bloody literally without reading the explanations !!!
then we wouldnt have to go through all this wastage of time !!

[Martin-Reza]

roo ke neest. sange paye ghazveeneh !!!

STOP looking at the picture and start READING the comments . it was the same thing being said ALL ALONG. only you would take a picture so bloody literally without reading the explanations !!!
then we wouldnt have to go through all this wastage of time !!

But the pic is plain wrong. It suggests it's possible to forget all tactical basics and get everything at once without any tradeoff. It's misleading and supporting the idea of many young members such a system would exist. I think as an F+er, you should be a better example and use the better version, or at least add an explanation.

I still don't agree on the exact version of the flat midfield, but I am relieved you're better informed than I thought .

[Doctor DOOM]

what's next?
claim there's no player called HAYDARI ( or is "non-existent" ), just becoz his name may be HEYDARI ?

really!!