Ghotbi on the one-striker issue

[Martin-Reza]

http://www.persianfootball.com/index...=2075&Itemid=2

I guess some disagree. Opinions please.

[Doctor DOOM]

I'm not gonna do roodeh-deraazi and suffice to say:
TALK is cheap.
ACTIONS speak louder than words


so next time if I say "I almost beat Tyson, had it not been for a bad call or two from the ref" you guys would believe my words ... or believe ur eyes when I was getting pummeled and couldnt land more than a punch?

============

LOOLL
I can see how that piece appealed to martin.

coz it talks about "what SHD be, according to the coaching manual or ..." ... rather than WHAT ACTUALLY TRANSPIRED ON THE PITCH !

[BehzadB]

"I think some with traditional concepts believe that a 4-4-2 system means the direct attack with two strikers, but this theory has no place in modern football."

that should pretty much explain the issue here. some people think Modern football concepts don't fit Iranian football players, therefore we should stick to our own "ali asghari" football.. just put two guys up front and send everything to the box and be happy that his team has two forwards up front, playing attacking football.. For some, real football games are the same as Xbox game..

[Doctor DOOM]

"I think some with traditional concepts believe that a 4-4-2 system means the direct attack with two strikers, but this theory has no place in modern football."
that should pretty much explain the issue here. some people think Modern football concepts don't fit Iranian football players, therefore we should stick to our own "ali asghari" football.. just put two guys up front and send everything to the box and be happy that his team has two forwards up front, playing attacking football.. For some, real football games are the same as Xbox game..

now, if that isnt the most clear example of exaggeration, then I dont knwo what is !

so it's either an ultra-modern, highly efficient 4-2-3-1 ( god knows where this efficiency has been seen at TM ) --- lets take it as "1"

or

it's a defunct, aliasghari, and old concept of 4-4-2 --- lets say "0"

right?

I mean there is absolutely no room for a scenario where our players ( afterall we're talking about our players not the dutch or germans, right ? ) could play this formation and perhaps show better performance.
correct?
there's NO DOUBT about this.

it is either 1 or 0 ! ( is it the proximity to MIT that induces this "1 or 0" views ? )
black or white.
and no grey in between !!!





it is unfathomable to even imagine a case where by some divine miracle, our players may turn out a performance where the strikers actually find a little more space ( coz the defenders are divided between TWO marks). or they may actually support each other up front.
Oh. My. God! gaaz begir zabooneto

and it is unheard of and unimaginable to think some of the crosses coming from flanks actually find their way to one of the two strikers! Blasphemy!!

or it is just impossible to even randomly come across a scenario where the two strikers feed off each other !!
quick. devil's sign to ward off any evil by the mention of such satanic chants !!!
esfand dood konid. kill a few dozen sheep to ward off all this devil talk !!!




==============

so the morale of the story is:

we shd be using or at least look like we're using MODERN formations ... lest we look "bad or old" in front of the world. screw the fact that we cant perform these formations and look like bloody amateurs. Who the f*ck cares if it doesnt help us win games?
all that's not important.
what's important is that we "SEEM" modern in the eyes of the world, and can "boast" about using the latest in modern football!

reminds me of that IRANIAN woman who spent obscene amount of money on the latest "Manolo B." shoes, but in the end, walked LIKE A FREAKING DUCK ... becoz the f**king shoes were uncomfortable to walk in!!!!

ntch..ntch..ntch !!

[Doctor DOOM]

poor ghotbi seems confused !!

he thinks just becoz a team like holland plays 4-2-3-1 and wins games, ANY team with ANY set of players will get the same result !!!

he says "we attacked w 4 players ... blah blah"! (rubbish!).
and he goes on to talk about what the formation, IN THEORY IN SOME MANUAL , is supposed to bring and what effects it's supposed to have. ( which is what appealed to martin )

but he forgets (??? riiiight! I'm sure he "forgot" ! ) to mention apart from the SINGLE forward who hasnt been scoring goals in the past year or more, of the other 3, two arent goal scorers and the other who CAN, performed waaaaayyyy below expectation and ran out of steam by the first half!

so WHO THE F*CK was supposed to "score our goals" ???

he wont say. coz he has NO ANSWERS to this !!!

[Paradigm]

poor ghotbi seems confused !!

he thinks just becoz a team like holland plays 4-2-3-1 and wins games, ANY team with ANY set of players will get the same result !!!

he says "we attacked w 4 players ... blah blah"! (rubbish!).
and he goes on to talk about what the formation, IN THEORY IN SOME MANUAL , is supposed to bring and what effects it's supposed to have. ( which is what appealed to martin )

but he forgets (??? riiiight! I'm sure he "forgot" ! ) to mention apart from the SINGLE forward who hasnt been scoring goals in the past year or more, of the other 3, two arent goal scorers and the other who CAN, performed waaaaayyyy below expectation and ran out of steam by the first half!

so WHO THE F*CK was supposed to "score our goals" ???

he wont say. coz he has NO ANSWERS to this !!!

Speaking of single forwards, Hash last scored for TM in 2006 against SK in Seoul.

[Martin-Reza]

poor ghotbi seems confused !!

he thinks just becoz a team like holland plays 4-2-3-1 and wins games, ANY team with ANY set of players will get the same result !!!

he says "we attacked w 4 players ... blah blah"! (rubbish!).
and he goes on to talk about what the formation, IN THEORY IN SOME MANUAL , is supposed to bring and what effects it's supposed to have. ( which is what appealed to martin )

but he forgets (??? riiiight! I'm sure he "forgot" ! ) to mention apart from the SINGLE forward who hasnt been scoring goals in the past year or more, of the other 3, two arent goal scorers and the other who CAN, performed waaaaayyyy below expectation and ran out of steam by the first half!

so WHO THE F*CK was supposed to "score our goals" ???

he wont say. coz he has NO ANSWERS to this !!!

So just for the record. You think you are right on the 4-2-3-1 and Team Melli and Ghotbi, Daei and Ivankovic are and were wrong? As a matter of fact?

Does that sum up your position?

[BehzadB]

So just for the record. You think you are right on the 4-2-3-1 and Team Melli and Ghotbi, Daei and Ivankovic are and were wrong? As a matter of fact?

Does that sum up your position?

Not only that, but also anyone who favors 4.2.3.1 is a moron, an idiot and a RETARD, ... (notice RETARD is in Capital letters)

those are doctor doom's exact words..

[Martin-Reza]

Well, I wanna hear (read) it explicitely here from him. It is clear he is saying that, but he always claims "I haven't said that".

Maybe during typing that Ghotbi, Daei and Ivankovic are retards in concern of tactics and he knows better, he has to start laughing and realizes something about his view and way to present it is wrong.

[Doctor DOOM]

Speaking of single forwards, Hash last scored for TM in 2006 against SK in Seoul.

and the mere fact of being forced to go back 3 years to find an example of a single IRANIAN ( key word here, martin, behzad, .... ) forward tells a lot about the effectiveness of this formation!

without probing into records, I'm sure in between also we have had a couple of forwards scoring a couple of goals and it cant be that horrendously pathetic and gigantically desperate.
but it is still extremely low enough to make us pause. .... at least those of us not hell bent on lajbaazi , that is.

and if that doesnt cause ppl to pause, then perhaps those ppl have OTHER, BIGGER problems to worry about than their lajbaazi on what formation their idols insisted on

==================================

now to martin and behzad's querries:

and yes, I explicitly said that and I still maintain it.
using this crummy formation in games we needed to win has been PROVEN time and time again that it is futile and untrustworthy.
so yes, one lacks certain amount of intelligence to persist on having their soup with a fork.

but then again, maybe I'll wait for all of you to answer my MANY questions on effectiveness of our strikers and the reasons for it and if playing alone up there isnt one of the reasons. or how come while Iran boasts about some of the more talented midfielders in asia, when it comes to its TM games the most under-performing and weak performance is by its midfield.
or .... etc.

but hey ... who cares?
"as long as I'm defending my MODERN formation and idol or ... and am not admitting many issues, I'm fine" , right ???!!
I'm not gonna change ur views, nor are you going to convince me ( unless I see w my own eyes that this formation and single forward and .... works for when we need a win , with acceptable consistency)

khosh bashid aghayoon coz we're tearing the arses of everyone we meet on the pitch with this highly modern formation.

... and oh, perhaps a little cotton in the shoe may reduce the TORTURE you're going through while walking like a duck.

[Martin-Reza]

Why am I not surprised you are again afraid to speak it out directly. Say it, say that you think Ghotbi, Buter, Daei and Ivankovic are all wrong and you are right on the matter of using a 4-2-3-1 for TM.

No explanations, no explaining how obvious this is supposed to be.

Just say if this is what you think or if you are maybe not objectively right on this matter.

[Doctor DOOM]

seems you like to do a lot od "yek o do" and back n forth-ing!

I said using the system given IRANIAN players is wrong. and hasnt paid dirt for us when we needed a win.
so yes, those who decided on it in such situations are wrong.

evidence is there for all to see.

[Martin-Reza]

[Martin-Reza]

Ok, I can't believe you really said this. So pursuing this. Are you also a better coach or just better than Ghotbi in matter of chosing a tactical lineup?

And in case of the latter, would you say TM would be better off if Ghotbi would add you as advisor to the national team, on the matters of tactic and tactical lineups?

I mean you would prevent him from playing 4-2-3-1 which undoubtedly would improve our game, so is it correct to assume you think TM would be better off with your influence?

[Doctor DOOM]

u sure u r 28 and not 13 ?