Why do we need to play with two DMs in a must win game in Tehran?

[BehzadB]

Finished watching South Korea and KSA and these two teams are a head and shoulder above our current TM. I am so sorry and ashamed to say this, but it is my opinion.

And I agree.. but knowing that, you think adding a Forward and reducing a midfielder, will make us better, offensively?? How??

When you play 4.4.2, one of the midfielders is a holding midfielder.. (that means you have only 5 players going forward).. the same as 4.2.3.1 and the same as 4.3.3

How is adding one forward and taking one midfielder out give us better chance?? Who is supposed to get them the ball?? If we can't feed our 1 forward (hashemian) with 5 midfielders behind him, what makes you think we can feed 2 forwards with 4 midfielders behind them??

Numbers don't lie.

----------
Aside from all that, how many times have you seen and heard REAL FOOTBALL EXPERTS, (NOT US), talk about how the formation itself means nothing.. the performance of the team depends on 1000 factors, formation being the least important one of them..

Best example of that was that Portuguese coach that came to Iran to take TM job (forgot his name).. On 90, Adel asked him what formation do you play? he replied "Who has the ball?"..

we had the same discussion here over 4 years ago, when Hooman Afazeli was a regular visitor and poster.. He put it best.. he said; "it's all about Transitional football" Teams that play well in Transition, are the ones that put out good performances.. It's not the formation..

[Martin-Reza]

^ and even the 4-4-2 has 2 holding midfielders in the flat version. One maybe slightly more offensive, but in order to make up for that, the side midfielders have more defensive duties than the wingers in the 4-2-3-1.

[Doctor DOOM]

the difference is now, we go on passing to the center forward. but becoz he's always marked down by 2 or 3 defenders, almost none of these balls reach him. they're either intercepted by one of the markers or headed off or ... .
the scant few that do reach him, becoz he's usually surrounded by 2 or 3, he is dispossessed.
that's why our strikers have the lowest number of touches on the ball, the lowest number of positive moves with the ball as well.
this shd be proof enough for ppl with OPEN eyes




but with providing a second option up front in the box:
- you divide the markers/defenders on each striker
- you double your receiving options in the box
- you provide a partner, closer to the center forward who could feed him or feed off him

[BehzadB]

yeah, right..

Like how we played with 2 forwards in 4 games in AC games, including a game against Malaysia, and our 2 forwards accounted for ZERO goals..

2 Forwards, 4 Games, 0 Goals..

Midfielders 5 goals,
Defenders, 1 goal
forwards, 0 goals,

even against Malaysia they couldn't score..

[Doctor DOOM]

1- GN used 4-2-3-1 against skorea and in periods against the group stage opponents.
as usual, much like all vatani coaches, lost his guts

against uzbeks, he used 4-2-3-1 with khatibi and eneyati on flanks of VH.
Neku & ando as 2 DM's
and if I recall correctly, kazemian came on as forward and scored THE WINNER against uzbekistan
( IRONICALLY, he scored the goal when VH was taken out & madanchi was brought in as left wing. which meant when kazemian scored THE WINNER, we had TWO strikers: enayati & kazemian
but I'm sure it's all coincidence )




vs SK, 4-2-3-1, he used madanchi & khatibi as flank players to VH as lone striker.
neku & ando as 2 DMs.




2- as far as I remember we still scored 2 goals against a team having parked the bus in front of their goal ... in a hot & humid and unfavorable climate.

what's ur excuse for uae's C team IN AZADI?


=============


look ppl.
you guys like to oppose me and prove me wrong.
hey, fine by me. I can take it.
but at least lets not forget the "message" and stay true to it.
I guess some ppl lose focus in their urge to "show the messenger up & prove him wrong".

[Martin-Reza]

^ GN played a 4-3-3 in Asian Cup, not a 4-2-3-1. Only exception was the South Korea game in which he played a threeback and used a 3-5-2. How can that be confused with a 4-2-3-1?

As expert of tactics you surely spot the difference between a 4-2-3-1 and a 4-3-3 immediately and can elaborate on this a bit. Maybe also explain the connections of the difference in midfield between 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 on one side and the two versions of the 3-5-2 on the other. The V-M issue I mean.

Oh wait, you have no clue, I forgot.

[BehzadB]

don't play with the words, peyman
don't go round n round

TWO FORWARDS, 4 GAMES, ZERO goals..

I just proved to you that 2 forwards don't mean goals, not even against a piss poor Malaysia..

http://www.teammelli.com/Games/465-MYS-IRN.htm

[Doctor DOOM]

and I just told you we played with 2 and a single forwards in some games

another proof was using NEKUNAM and ANDO as the 2 DMs.

it's there in the records

[Martin-Reza]

Please, do us all a favour:

http://www.magazinesubscriptionsipc....CM&ctryID=NONE

[Doctor DOOM]

wow!
that just proved all ur argument! hehe.

mere saying "you dont know" somehow, magically becomes true and then comes the referral !
LOL

oh, btw, why not refer to some TM games and "what is", instead of reading what "shd be" according to magazines and european experts

and that is what's driving you. you think just becoz it says so in the manual, then this is what really happens on the pitch.
NO.
we shd acknowledge this simple fact that given our players' amateurish development and attitude and shortcomings in all areas, they are NOT .... ( let me repeat this ) THEY ARE NOT those players you read in ur magazines.

our madanchi is not "figure #7" on the diagram "B" in page 14 of some manual, whose duties are known, and the arrows show the correct approach or has the ability to do X and Y....etc etc etc.
our madanchi has HIS OWN SPECIFIC characteristics that not necessarily tally with what you WANT from him, just becoz your reference manual says so.

just becoz in this magazine or that book, it says the right flank midfielder does : A, B, C, ... and defends this way, shoots that way and scored another way ... does not suddenly make kia or haydari or sadeghi or hassan or taghi perform those tasks AS MENTIONED in the book!

and if they cant, then why insist on it?

----------

as I said in some other thread, defensively we may have some players who can deliver the tasks. that's why you ppl are satisfied with the defensive performance (! dont ask ME why )
but the front 4 players' tasks are such that OUR IRANIAN players are not able to perform properly. ( that's why we have looked weak in our offense and our strikers havent scored and generally our team wastes FAR TOO MANY chances to score even 1 goal ... usually by a defender or mid !!! )

so why shd we settle for something HALF-BAKED ?



now, get past ur urge to oppose "me" and read the above as if ... lets say adnan or karimi8 or monaco or ... whatever other member here, is saying all this.

[Mr.Good]

and I just told you we played with 2 and a single forwards in some games

another proof was using NEKUNAM and ANDO as the 2 DMs.

it's there in the records

we did play 4-3-3 in AC07 up to the korea game


(RB)Kia-------(CB)Hosseini-----(CB)Rezaei-----(LB)Zandi
-------------------------------------------------------
------------------------(CM)Neko----------------------
------------(RM)Ando---------------(LM)Karimi---------
-------------------------------------------------------
---(RW)Khatibi----------------------------(LW)Enayati--
------------------------(ST) Hash----------------------

[Doctor DOOM]

(RB)Kia-------(CB)Hosseini-----(CB)Rezaei-----(LB)Zandi
-------------------------------------------------------
----------------(CM)Neko----(CM)Ando------------------
khatibi ---------------karimi---------------enayati

-----------------------VH ---------------------

why do I say that?
coz ando cannot play RM and his nature of football is a DM.
and no matter how we come to pfdc and put X here and Y there and Z somewhere else

these are REAL players with their own specific characteristics and style of football.

just like ghotbi "says" "we attacked with 4 players" .. does not mean that's what we saw in the game.

[Mr.Good]

^
Ha,
For lack of better decent words, I would say that your memory is failing you

[Mr.Good]

^
its not about what you think the player can or cannot do, Ano played RM in England.

it is all about what duties he was assigned, not what you assume of a player's nature

[Martin-Reza]

we did play 4-3-3 in AC07 up to the korea game
(RB)Kia-------(CB)Hosseini-----(CB)Rezaei-----(LB)Zandi
-------------------------------------------------------
------------------------(CM)Neko----------------------
------------(RM)Ando---------------(LM)Karimi---------
-------------------------------------------------------
---(RW)Khatibi----------------------------(LW)Enayati--
------------------------(ST) Hash----------------------

Yes, that's exactly how we played. I would just add that LM here is LCM and RM is RCM, it's actually half-positions, and not side midfielder positions.

I know you meant it, but just for the record.

The arrangement Dr. Doom put was NOT used in Asian Cup.