Ghotbi - Able coach or Smart Individual

[TrueBlue]

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I posted this poll in football forum:
Should Ghotbi's Contract be renewed?
This poll will close on 06-23-2009 at 12:38 PM
YES (until AC 2011 or WC 2014) 96 76.19%
NO 30 23.81%
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Alright, before all you Ghotbi lovers jump at my throat, I should say that this thread is mere speculation and my personal opinion. The whole situation with Daei's resignation and Ghotbi's appointment as TM head coach, at least to me, seemed a very calculated and shrewed move by Ghotbi.

6 pts, 3 games left 4th in the group, 3 games within 11 days 2 of which where away games. It was clear that whoever followed Daei as Iran's headcoach would face a very daunting task.

Ghotbi (or anyone else for that matter) had all to gain and little to lose. People were already blaming Daei and IFF for the shortcomings of TM and every one knew that TM had three difficult matches ahead.

Low and behold, dear Mr Ghotbi appears, backing his foolish promises of success with the only thing that he had going for him; Knowledge of the Koreas. From the first minutes of being in charge, it was obvious that this so called coach (or as I would prefer, video analyst) was not as professional as he claimed to be. "South Africa be ready for TM", "The only person who can defeat SK is Ghotbi", "I know the Koreas" are glimpses of garbage that Mr. Ghotbi fed our people and our media (I would give him an A in PR and Marketing though!)

In the few games that he was in charge, it was clear that our team has no clear plan (as the matter of fact the only thing he changed after Daei was sacked was that he invited anyone and everyone ). Not only he didnt learn from his mistakes, he kept repeating them. Odd choices of starting players, questionable substitutions and playing without a forward in a do or die match were his only contributions to TM (oops, pardon my short memory, he also invited Karimi), when he took the team, we were 4th, and we finished 4th.

Many claim that TM played much better, and with more determination and energy under him than under his predecesor, well, trust me, if we had a scare-crow as our head coach, our players would have played with more determination and energy... are they dumb? by all means no! Of course they realised that they had to give it all in the last 3 matches!

Again, a very smart and calculated move by Ghotbi, he gave it a shot, hoping to go to WC with TM and gain fame... did it work, NO! should it have worked, NO! will it work in the future, absolutely NOT! Ghotbi did not have the necessary credentials for becoming the head coach of a national team, he was just a very smart man or as we say in farsi "mikhast az abe gelalood mahi begire"

[Doctor DOOM]

BIG MOUTH, SLICK TONGUE .... but not much behind this mouth, especially if you're looking for guts or spine

[maij]

Your are not only TrueBlue ( the colors of champions) but a truly smart individual .

You have been repped.

It goes without saying that I agree with all your statements and observations.


The sad thing about Iran and the majority of Iranians is that it is a nation which ise so vulnerable to "Awam Freebi" and buy into any person with a big mouth.....In short the majorities are suckers........That is why the likes of AhmediNaejad rule and the like of Mousavi will never prevail......

Sell them a few BULLS**T and they all vouch for you , regardless to the acheivments.....

[maij]

BIG MOUTH, SLICK TONGUE .... but not much behind this mouth, especially if you're looking for guts or spine

And you are repped DOC.......

What a fine accurate description

[zzgloo]

I always and still am in faivor of a good forign coach, yet, I believe, Ghotbi is a right choice for TM for at least the next 3 years,for following reasons :

TM needs consistancy in next 3 years, ..and Ghotbi has brought new attitude,and new view to Iranian football, and this view is contagouse, and other coaches, seem to be learning non-confrontational attitude and " Hashieh-less " approach through him......
This new, To Iran , attitude, while not enough, yet has a very possitive results,and helpful in transitional period, for our football to go to the next proffesional level.........
With ghotbi, it seems, Iranian football is more open to international standards,and less domestic approach........
While, we could use a top foreign coach, a year before WC,...but till then, Ghotbi,who may know best the differences between our football and International standards, can be most useful......as any foreign coach, is less interested in foudemental changes, and more concerned about short term success................ghotbi, could direct our foundations toward,what our football lacks the most......................
Such Foundation buildings,are better given to those who understand the differences,than those who are just good at systems & player set ups.
The fact that he speaks Farsi,and he is Iranian ,will help others to understand the concepts better,and not have nationalistic defensive attitude...
In short, we need him to ease the transition to the proffesionalism.

[maij]

I always and still am in faivor of a good forign coach, yet, I believe, Ghotbi is a right choice for TM for at least the next 3 years,for following reasons :
.

Well , if you truly believe the necessity of a foreign coach , perhaps you might like to explain why three out of 4 Asian teams that made it to the World Cup have national local coaches !!!

Or why a country like Egypt , quite similar to Iran in many aspects specially in football , has just beaten World Champions Italy with their local coach !!!

Why a country Like North Korea , which is probably resembles planet Neptune , made it to the World Cup without ever having a foreign coach


I have made a topic about the subject Here.

As regard to Ghotbi briniging new attitude , I quite agree , but we need to seriousely ask ourselves one question ....DO WE NEED a man with an attiude or DO WE NEED man that creates success and leasd us to qualification to the World Cup ?

I know what my answer is , I ceratinly do not need a man with a silly smile or grin on his face...... Although I don't mind sitting and socializing with him in a coffee shop.

[zzgloo]

Well , if you truly believe the necessity of a foreign coach , perhaps you might like to explain why three out of 4 Asian teams that made it to the World Cup have national local coaches !!!

Or why a country like Egypt , quite similar to Iran in many aspects specially in football , has just beaten World Champions Italy with their local coach !!!

Why a country Like North Korea , which is probably resembles planet Neptune , made it to the World Cup without ever having a foreign coach


I have made a topic about the subject Here.

As regard to Ghotbi briniging new attitude , I quite agree , but we need to seriousely ask ourselves one question ....DO WE NEED a man with an attiude or DO WE NEED man that creates success and leasd us to qualification to the World Cup ?

I know what my answer is , I ceratinly do not need a man with a silly smile or grin on his face...... Although I don't mind sitting and socializing with him in a coffee shop.

Majid e Aziz,
I already explained what I personaly beleive would be Ideal......in my previouse post......
The foundation building coach,who understands our shortcomeings,who can explain it in Farsi,and be an example.....for the next 3 years...and later,a Good foreign coach who can " create success and lead us to WC qualification ",and beyound .
This plan, creates better foundation,for a good forign coach to take over, as well as creating foundations,and helping transition to more proffesional football by giveing chances to our own Domestic coach.....
WC atmospher, is different, and game analysis by coaches are far more important than ' Confederation cup ',or asian qualification,in which some domestic coaches may be etiquette....,in which some teams such as Italy or Brazil may get surprized.......
And that was why, during the 2006 WC, 16 out of 32 teams, had foreign coaches.
This plan, has also the possibilty ,to go with a Domestic coach, if he shows himself through the time and chances provided.....yet, he should be exceptionaly good, as we should not sell our chances so cheap, nor risk on the job training,when the time arrives.......This time period, could also be used wisely,and without rush, to find , the highly qualified foreign coach.

[Martin-Reza]

Well, another issue we should discuss after having calmed down.

I must say the team looked defensively more organized during his short spell. There couldn't be expected much more in the end.

I think he's head and shoulders above all other Iranian coaches, but Daei was as well and it didn't really help, lol.

[Behrooz]

Ghotbi had a chanct to prove himself but he was just a baloon of hot air.

He was not ready for an INTERNATIONAL coaching job and his knowledge of Koreans and 3 world cups was useless.

He collapsed under stress and did not use his subs logically and depended so much on old legs to pull a miracle.

[Doctor DOOM]

this is NOT about Iranian or foreigner.

this is about getting someone who KNOWS what he's doing and has the EXPERIENCE to lead a major team.

now, if the word "foriener" comes up, it is only becoz we dont have a coach with the above criteria among the vatani fellows!
it is not about the coach;s nationality

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and to answer martin jan's comments on TM's defense:

he had 3 games against :

1- a NK team that CLEARLY based its strategy on keeping its goal and soaking up the pressure in the first 45 and only started attacking in the 2nd ... DURING WHICH TIME THEY EASILY GOT THROUGH OUR DEFENSES AND HAD 3-4 CHANCES TO SCORE GOALS , and we have rahmati to thank if they didnt convert into goals.
so the defense when was put under pressure, wasnt reliable


2- against uae's C team? and we want to talk about our defense?
although even that shitty team got through our defense and created some chances too!!!


3- against an already-qualified SK, where they clearly didnt play their usual game and STILL penetrated us many times and again, we have rahmati ( and the post ) to thank for keeping us from losing by 2-3 goals.

so where exactly did this "defense" look praise worthy again?

[maij]

Majid e Aziz,
I already explained what I personaly beleive would be Ideal......in my previouse post......
The foundation building coach,who understands our shortcomeings,who can explain it in Farsi,and be an example.....for the next 3 years...and later,a Good foreign coach who can " create success and lead us to WC qualification ",and beyound .
This plan, creates better foundation,for a good forign coach to take over, as well as creating foundations,and helping transition to more proffesional football by giveing chances to our own Domestic coach.....
WC atmospher, is different, and game analysis by coaches are far more important than ' Confederation cup ',or asian qualification,in which some domestic coaches may be etiquette....,in which some teams such as Italy or Brazil may get surprized.......
And that was why, during the 2006 WC, 16 out of 32 teams, had foreign coaches.
This plan, has also the possibilty ,to go with a Domestic coach, if he shows himself through the time and chances provided.....yet, he should be exceptionaly good, as we should not sell our chances so cheap, nor risk on the job training,when the time arrives.......This time period, could also be used wisely,and without rush, to find , the highly qualified foreign coach.

Agha Bahram.... I want to ask you a very simple question and I request a simple answer?


What Knowledge the North Korean coach has that an Iranian cannot learn and implement ?

Please....just this simple question...

[maij]

BTW: Is Afshin Ghotbi a local (Vatani) coach or a foreign coach ???



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[xoraster]

Agha Bahram.... I want to ask you a very simple question and I request a simple answer?


What Knowledge the North Korean coach has that an Iranian cannot learn and implement ?

Please....just this simple question...

I am sorry but I found this question almost provoking.

Norh Korea was a freak accident. These things happen, every now and then. A war ravaged Iraq with basically amatuer players and zero planning won the Asian Cup before Australia with Premier League players. These things happen but NK is not a blue print of succesful management.

How about comparing North korea to South Korea, if professionalism, good foreign coaches, solid FA are not important, why is then South Korea going to their 8th straight world cup (with one semi final ) and North Korea going to their first WC since 1966??

[maij]

I am sorry but I found this question almost provoking.

Norh Korea was a freak accident. These things happen, every now and then. A war ravaged Iraq with basically amatuer players and zero planning won the Asian Cup before Australia with Premier League players. These things happen but NK is not a blue print of succesful management.

How about comparing North korea to South Korea, if professionalism, good foreign coaches, solid FA are not important, why is then South Korea going to their 8th straight world cup (with one semi final ) and North Korea going to their first WC since 1966??

AHA ...the man that is telling me me that "With all due respect, your knowledge of foreign football is limited and thus, you write this post. I will explain why you are wrong."

So , I assume your knowledge of Foreign football is UNLIMITED....

What is your profession ? are you a journalist , if so what regions do you cover , and whom do you work for? Are you a professional coach ?
Are you a member of FIFA or work with some sport organization?

On what basis do you qualify yourself and disqualify others ?

BTW: I am not a professional in football field.

Wait a minute.......Do you have any family relations with Afshin Ghotbi , because you seem to have the same FULL OF HOT AIR claims ....
You know " We will beat Korea 3-0" , "No one can beat Korea except for me" , " South Africa be better ready for Team Melli" !!!



The Englishman has come up with a good proverb , perhaps you might learn from it
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[xoraster]

AHA ...the man that is telling me me that "With all due respect, your knowledge of foreign football is limited and thus, you write this post. I will explain why you are wrong."

So , I assume your knowledge of Foreign football is UNLIMITED....

What is your profession ? are you a journalist , if so what regions do you cover , and whom do you work for? Are you a professional coach ?
Are you a member of FIFA or work with some sport organization?

On what basis do you qualify yourself and disqualify others ?

BTW: I am not a professional in football field.

Wait a minute.......Do you have any family relations with Afshin Ghotbi , because you seem to have the same FULL OF HOT AIR claims ....
You know " We will beat Korea 3-0" , "No one can beat Korea except for me" , " South Africa be better ready for Team Melli" !!!



The Englishman has come up with a good proverb , perhaps you might learn from it
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Actually, I work as an agent for an interational agency and have been directly or indirectly involved with some transfers to or from Iran.

http://www.ctssmi.com/aboutus.htm

I have enough knowledge to know that we cannot compare Iranian coaches to the likes of Japanese and Korean. Before being allowed to coach in Japan, one has to take professional classes, seminars. The Japanese FA sends their candidates to different countries such as Brail, France, Italy or Spain etc etc and then, they usualy start from the youth teams and work themsleves up in a professional environment, putting their knowledge against some of the best coaches in the region. Thats how it works in Japan. In Iran, a guy like Mansourian can take over PAS and someone like Samad can take over Esteghlal with minimum knowledge and experince, theoretical and practical.

So, therefore, one cannot say that if Japan and Korea can get results from domestic coaches so can.