Ghotbi - Able coach or Smart Individual

[Martin-Reza]

Of course getting professionals from Europe is not the solution itself, but it's one aspect of the solution.

The more high class professionals (mainly coaches and players) we get to Iran to educate and train but also compete against our players and coaches the better and more professional our football will become.

One TM coach will not make a big difference in the end, but a TM coach, several league coaches, coaching instructors and good legionnaires would.

[maij]

Majid Jaan, ...
I offered a plan,which asks for 3 years of western style Ghotbi magenement,and later high powered foreign coach.....then ....
Your first question was, how was it that Domestic coaches succeeded in the Koreas, to which I answered..... which you seemed to agree
And your new question is " " What secrets these khareji coaches have our own cannot learn ? "...............................

Bahram Jan....I seriously think that in fact , we agree , yet we differ in the conclusion. In fact I believe both you and Martin answered the questions already.

I am adamant from my experience , and a true beleiver that if the system is not properly organized and establish , then skills can not flourish. Read my response to Martin and you will get the picture.

Bringing a few coaches , even highly experienced ones and inducting them in the system WILL NOT WORK , Iran football needs fundamental changes. There are far too many shortcomings to simply ignore while putting your hope on a single esilyly obtained solution like a foreign coach.

Saying that Ali Daei or Amir Ghalenoei has cost Team Melli dearly , is escaping from reality....Even though I don't think much of Afshin Ghotbi's coaching ability and put him behind Ebrahimzadeh in the ranking of TM coaches , I still cannot blame him ....This whole system sucks , and you expect a Mr. George or a Mr. Roberto to wage his Magic wand and everything will be Hanky Doory !!!!!

All my professional life I have worked in a tightly regulated industry and progressed to be a trainer and lecturer on top of manamegnet jobs. In this industry , millions are spent in training to ensure that gaps are filled and all the employess follow a strict set of sytems , rules and procedures. The investments are in the system not only individuals....in this industry , no one beleives in one or two persons as being saviours...... I suspect , football or sport is the same thing.

There are hundred of gaps that needs to be filled in Iran's football before you even dream of having a quality team that can challenge the best in Asia. You can experince these shortcomings begining from grass root levels all the way to the National squad. Look at the clubs to start with , do you seriousely think that these clubs are properly run to produce quality football ???

For heaven Sake...I don't understand why some of the people here are in denial...in this forum alone , we keep talking about hundreds of things that are wrong , so ....how come all of this is forgotten and suddenly having a good foreign coach is the answer ???

These people keep doging all the real issues. Of course , I am not undermining the role of TM coach and beleive in the best , but fix your house first ........

Mokhlis Agha Bahram.

[maij]

Of course getting professionals from Europe is not the solution itself, but it's one aspect of the solution.

The more high class professionals (mainly coaches and players) we get to Iran to educate and train but also compete against our players and coaches the better and more professional our football will become.

One TM coach will not make a big difference in the end, but a TM coach, several league coaches, coaching instructors and good legionnaires would.

Very much so......


The fact remains that Iran has a long way to go in claiming to be one of the best in Asia.

[kaz]

We have 2 years until the next major tourney and we are in no desperate situation to sign a coach immediately. They should have said they were looking, done the work in contacting other managers and then, if they truly had looked and wanted a good coach, having failed signed Ghotbi. Seriously, if Perspolis can even think about getting Topmoller - a coach who took Leverkusen to the Champions League FINAL, coming 2nd in the league and runners up in the cup - then TM should be setting it's sights higher than Ghotbi. Or is that not a legitimate gripe now? Are some "bashing" still?

If anything no one says enough about Ghotbi. He talks bollocks. He said we'd beat S.Korea 3-0. That only he could beat them. He guaranteed we'd beat N.Korea, even if it was played on the Moon. He said he would qualify. Now he has come up with the excuses after failing but still is promising that he will win the next Asian cup. Akhe har antari dige een harf-haro mizad 10ta thread baz mikardim va masgharash mikardim.

[maij]

We have 2 years until the next major tourney and we are in no desperate situation to sign a coach immediately. They should have said they were looking, done the work in contacting other managers and then, if they truly had looked and wanted a good coach, having failed signed Ghotbi. Seriously, if Perspolis can even think about getting Topmoller - a coach who took Leverkusen to the Champions League FINAL, coming 2nd in the league and runners up in the cup - then TM should be setting it's sights higher than Ghotbi. Or is that not a legitimate gripe now? Are some "bashing" still?

If anything no one says enough about Ghotbi. He talks bollocks. He said we'd beat S.Korea 3-0. That only he could beat them. He guaranteed we'd beat N.Korea, even if it was played on the Moon. He said he would qualify. Now he has come up with the excuses after failing but still is promising that he will win the next Asian cup. Akhe har antari dige een harf-haro mizad 10ta thread baz mikardim va masgharash mikardim.

Indeed , how come Perspolis can sign these high profile coaches , yet IFF is crippled and cannot sign a decent coach ...........

I have my own theories......but , it is interesting to know what people think about the subject & why IFF keeps failing in this department ( amongst many other failures , of course)

[Mr.Good]

The way I see it, all our problems go back to the amateurish management at IFF and clubs (in fact everywhere).

we have 1.5 year till AC2011 and 3 years for WCQ2014. Is the IFF planning short term for the next week, month, year... or are they planning for the long term.

The was I see it, we should build a new team with youngsters from scratch. we need new blood, and we need this new blood to become thick (get experienced). The way I see it, the new team should be built for WC2014, i.e. we should use AC2011 and a venue to gain experience, not take old fallen stars to the trounament just to try and win something. Will the IFF plan ahead, or will they panic from the first loss and change coach etc.

Another question: Are the IFF officials themselves sure about their job security? If they cannot grantee their positions for the next month or year, what will make them plan ahead for the future ?

overall, I think we need Good management and stability in that management

[zzgloo]

These people keep doging all the real issues. Of course , I am not undermining the role of TM coach and beleive in the best , but fix your house first ........

Majid Jaan,.......
I ,like you , believe, we are on a same wave length....and Just differ on the conclusion........
To understand the core of your opinion which is the above statement by you.......,We both agree with understanding the problems...yet, your conclusion , is " We need to Fix our own house first "...which is where we differ.....................
We , in Iran, are not the only people who have problems......and while it is true, best foundementals would bring best results...( as top economic power houses are Football power houses as well ), yet.......
I believe, we must do with what we have at hand !...we must go,with the reality, and learn to adapt !....as it is the ever going challenge, and we must accept,and do our best at any given time.
The fact ,that every 4 years, we have different set of represetetives from AFRICA, means, they like us ,have domestic Obsticles,and challanges !
The Nigerians,can not say, we will stop trying untill we would have all our house in order......they compete every time, as they should, and as we should.....and every time, we, like them, do our best,with the situations at hand.
As I said,long before,on this forum.......our football, is like our Economy....and protectionism,is not the accepted way to improve...rather, constant involvement with Golbal reality,and assimilation of systems already proven by others ,with a mix of domestc touch and input..is the way to go.
..
Your friend,Bahram

[Martin-Reza]

There is probably no reason to discuss this anylonger, nor to waste time on IR football.

It seems they are banning several players, making trouble for our legionnaires, banning the most popular journalists and the best managers. That will surely lead everyone who is not a full Hezbollahi to quit, no chance Ghotbi would work under such circumstances.

So we will have a depleted team coached by MK and a Federation led by the dumbest of the dumb.

It's probably time to kiss TM and Iranian football good-bye and use our energy on something more useful. Maybe on making a stiff competition against those who are responsible for this?

[zzgloo]

There is probably no reason to discuss this anylonger, nor to waste time on IR football.

It seems they are banning several players, making trouble for our legionnaires, banning the most popular journalists and the best managers. That will surely lead everyone who is not a full Hezbollahi to quit, no chance Ghotbi would work under such circumstances.

So we will have a depleted team coached by MK and a Federation led by the dumbest of the dumb.

It's probably time to kiss TM and Iranian football good-bye and use our energy on something more useful. Maybe on making a stiff competition against those who are responsible for this?

It is the most exciting time......
I would have exchanged the WC trophy with the currant situation.....
we are getting our country back....and that is absolutly the greatest news.

[Martin-Reza]

^ Do you really think so? I don't think it looks like change, it rather seems the hardliners are about to win.

[Dubxl152]

I cant sit here and judge Ghotbis coaching ability based on his short stint as TM coach and his 3.75 matchs the 2 friendlies are like 3/4 of a real game.

I think he has the ability to be a good coach but what any good coach needs is ample time with his players and quality infrastructure....(doesnt exist in Iran)

It doesnt matter who our coach is in the future even world class coachs like murhino or lippi would have a difficult time trying to get a team to
A. Buy into their program.
B. Play together as a unit per coachs new instructions
C. determine the best possible players and work on the complete lack of basic skills which were poor to begin with the majority of our players and have degraded even more since '06.

It takes more than a couple months to teach a player like Madanchi to dribble without looking down @ the ball. Masoud to take shots on the first shot or instill confidence in the players to shoot from outside the box. Now Ghotbis subs were idiotic and meaningless, he wasted all of his sub opportunities BUT i feel that the team played more organized under his leadership than under Daei's, and he didnt bring party bazi to the table.

Im not a fan of Daei as a coach or Ghotbi as a coach, im a fan of TM. So i dont care who the next coach is as long as he is qualified and is given ample time to work with the team. Considering whats going on in our country right now..... this should be the least of our worries.


PPS. It would be awsome if we could have a Politics or General Plus forum where we can discuss current events in IR, what we think the future holds etc in a polite civilized manner. I don't know if thats feasible with our current servers or how much of a chore it would be for kamran, Mansoor or the Mods. just a suggestion.

[maij]

فوتبال ايران ژيان را با قيمت بنز برگزيد

افاضلى: برنامه ۴ ساله قطبى، ايران را به بنگلادش مى رساند




هومن افاضلى دستيار سابق على دايى در تيم ملى گفت: قطبى با هنرنمايى خود، مى تواند بعد از ۴ سال، سطح فوتبال ايران را با بنگلادش يكى كند. وى اظهار داشت: ناكامى تيم ملى مى تواند دلايل متعددى داشته باشد. يكى از دلايل، ساختارى است كه در كوتاه مدت قابل حل كردن نيست. فردى هم وجود ندارد كه بخواهد با برنامه اى كه ارائه مى كند، آنها را حل كند.او ادامه داد: در تاريخ ۸۰ ساله جام جهانى، ايران فقط در ۳ دوره حضور داشته است. اين معنايش اين است كه اشكالات فراوانى داريم. هميشه خود به خود برخى بازيكن نخبه گرد هم جمع شده اند يا يك مربى برنامه ريز آمده و برخى مسائل فراهم بود، تيم به جام جهانى رفت؛ در غير اينصورت، در اين زمينه هيچ موقع موفق عمل نكرديم. آناليزور سابق تيم ملى با اشاره به اينكه با تعويض دايى مخالف بودم، گفت: از فرصت هاى مقطعى هم خوب استفاده نمى كنيم. دايى در اولين باختش در يك بازى رسمى بركنار شد و فدراسيون به دنبال قطبى رفت.

وى ادامه داد: قطبى در رديف بزرگترين هنرمندان مانند عزت الله انتظامى، جمشيد مشايخى و محمدعلى كشاورز و چه بسا بالاتر قرار دارد. قطبى مى تواند نامزد جايزه اسكار هم شود. اگر دايى بزرگترين شخصيت فوتبالى را از سمت سرمربيگرى بركنار مى كنيم، كسى كه همه دنيا فوتبال ايران را به اسم او مى شناسند، بايد دنبال كسى برويم كه يا در سطح دايى باشد يا بالاتر از او. افاضلى خاطر نشان ساخت: مقايسه بين تروسيه و قطبى مثل بنز و ژيان است كه ژيان را انتخاب كرديم. قطبى را با سلام و صلوات آورديم و پس از آن قول هايى داد كه هيچكدام عملى نشد. نه تيم به جام جهانى رفت و نه ۲ كره اى را كه مى گفت هيچ كس اندازه من نمى شناسد، شكست داديم. زمان قطبى ۳ مسابقه انجام داديم كه ۲ ديدار با تيم هايى بود كه تكليفشان از قبل مشخص شده و انگيزه اى براى ديدار با ما نداشتند. وى با بيان اينكه امارات در مسابقه با ايران از ۷ بازيكن جوانانش استفاده مى كرد، گفت: در تهران اين تيم را به زور با يك گل شكست داديم و مقابل كره شمالى مساوى كرديم و برابر كره جنوبى در حالى كه قطبى ادعا مى كرد، اين تيم را مانند كف دستش مى شناسد، شانس آورديم كه بازى را واگذار نكرديم. افاضلى در مورد ادعاى قطبى مبنى بر اينكه مربيان ايرانى همين ۵ امتياز را هم نمى گرفتند، تصريح كرد: او راست مى گويد زيرا مربيان ايرانى ۶ امتياز مى گرفتند. اگر با دايى بوديم، كره شمالى را شكست مى داديم و اگر با كره جنوبى مساوى مى كرديم، به راحتى به جام جهانى مى رفتيم. وى افزود: از لحاظ آمارى ثابت مى كنم كه كار قطبى با اشكال مواجه بود. تيم قطبى نسبت به دايى از لحاظ آمارى ضعيف تر بود. اگر آمار فنى را بررسى كنيم، مجموع توليدات فنى تيم ملى در اين ۳ بازى از ۳ مسابقه اى كه دايى مربى تيم ملى بود، در مجموع پايين تر بود. كمك دايى در تيم ملى ادامه داد: قطبى به خوبى نظم و انضباط را در تيم ملى رعايت كرد. اين نظم و انضباطى كه قطبى از آن حرف مى زند، شايد در هاليوود باشد چرا كه در تيم ملى اين را مشاهده نكرديم. چه زمانى سابقه داشته كه ۱۰ بازيكن همزمان از تيم ملى جدا شوند؟ هر كس يك جايش را بهانه كرد و رفت. وى در مورد موافقت فدراسيون با برنامه هاى ۴ ساله قطبى، اظهار داشت: بسيار خوشحالم كه اين اتفاق مى افتد چرا كه تا ۴ سال مى توان راجع به برنامه او حرف زد و لذت برد. ممكن است قول قهرمانى جهان را هم بدهد. قطبى حقش ضايع شده كه ۳ بار اسكار سينماى جهان را نگرفته است. افاضلى با اشاره به اينكه ضمانت مى دهم در پايان برنامه ۴ ساله قطبى فوتبال ايران در حد بنگلادش باشد، گفت: تنها جايى كه بين ژيان و بنز با قيمت بنز، ژيان را انتخاب مى كنند، ايران است.

[Hadi]

both, he is able AND smart.

The South Korea match in south Korea and Iran's math in N.Korea, although very far from perfect, were better than all TMs performances in the past 2 years.

[zzgloo]

^ Do you really think so? I don't think it looks like change, it rather seems the hardliners are about to win.

The poleyical analyst of CIA, said : " The Jeanie is not out of the bottle yet,but the Cork has been permenantly removed ".

[Ali Chicago]

فوتبال ايران ژيان را با قيمت بنز برگزيد

افاضلى: برنامه ۴ ساله قطبى، ايران را به بنگلادش مى رساند




هومن افاضلى دستيار سابق على دايى در تيم ملى گفت: قطبى با هنرنمايى خود، مى تواند بعد از ۴ سال، سطح فوتبال ايران را با بنگلادش يكى كند. وى اظهار داشت: ناكامى تيم ملى مى تواند دلايل متعددى داشته باشد. يكى از دلايل، ساختارى است كه در كوتاه مدت قابل حل كردن نيست. فردى هم وجود ندارد كه بخواهد با برنامه اى كه ارائه مى كند، آنها را حل كند.او ادامه داد: در تاريخ ۸۰ ساله جام جهانى، ايران فقط در ۳ دوره حضور داشته است. اين معنايش اين است كه اشكالات فراوانى داريم. هميشه خود به خود برخى بازيكن نخبه گرد هم جمع شده اند يا يك مربى برنامه ريز آمده و برخى مسائل فراهم بود، تيم به جام جهانى رفت؛ در غير اينصورت، در اين زمينه هيچ موقع موفق عمل نكرديم. آناليزور سابق تيم ملى با اشاره به اينكه با تعويض دايى مخالف بودم، گفت: از فرصت هاى مقطعى هم خوب استفاده نمى كنيم. دايى در اولين باختش در يك بازى رسمى بركنار شد و فدراسيون به دنبال قطبى رفت.

وى ادامه داد: قطبى در رديف بزرگترين هنرمندان مانند عزت الله انتظامى، جمشيد مشايخى و محمدعلى كشاورز و چه بسا بالاتر قرار دارد. قطبى مى تواند نامزد جايزه اسكار هم شود. اگر دايى بزرگترين شخصيت فوتبالى را از سمت سرمربيگرى بركنار مى كنيم، كسى كه همه دنيا فوتبال ايران را به اسم او مى شناسند، بايد دنبال كسى برويم كه يا در سطح دايى باشد يا بالاتر از او. افاضلى خاطر نشان ساخت: مقايسه بين تروسيه و قطبى مثل بنز و ژيان است كه ژيان را انتخاب كرديم. قطبى را با سلام و صلوات آورديم و پس از آن قول هايى داد كه هيچكدام عملى نشد. نه تيم به جام جهانى رفت و نه ۲ كره اى را كه مى گفت هيچ كس اندازه من نمى شناسد، شكست داديم. زمان قطبى ۳ مسابقه انجام داديم كه ۲ ديدار با تيم هايى بود كه تكليفشان از قبل مشخص شده و انگيزه اى براى ديدار با ما نداشتند. وى با بيان اينكه امارات در مسابقه با ايران از ۷ بازيكن جوانانش استفاده مى كرد، گفت: در تهران اين تيم را به زور با يك گل شكست داديم و مقابل كره شمالى مساوى كرديم و برابر كره جنوبى در حالى كه قطبى ادعا مى كرد، اين تيم را مانند كف دستش مى شناسد، شانس آورديم كه بازى را واگذار نكرديم. افاضلى در مورد ادعاى قطبى مبنى بر اينكه مربيان ايرانى همين ۵ امتياز را هم نمى گرفتند، تصريح كرد: او راست مى گويد زيرا مربيان ايرانى ۶ امتياز مى گرفتند. اگر با دايى بوديم، كره شمالى را شكست مى داديم و اگر با كره جنوبى مساوى مى كرديم، به راحتى به جام جهانى مى رفتيم. وى افزود: از لحاظ آمارى ثابت مى كنم كه كار قطبى با اشكال مواجه بود. تيم قطبى نسبت به دايى از لحاظ آمارى ضعيف تر بود. اگر آمار فنى را بررسى كنيم، مجموع توليدات فنى تيم ملى در اين ۳ بازى از ۳ مسابقه اى كه دايى مربى تيم ملى بود، در مجموع پايين تر بود. كمك دايى در تيم ملى ادامه داد: قطبى به خوبى نظم و انضباط را در تيم ملى رعايت كرد. اين نظم و انضباطى كه قطبى از آن حرف مى زند، شايد در هاليوود باشد چرا كه در تيم ملى اين را مشاهده نكرديم. چه زمانى سابقه داشته كه ۱۰ بازيكن همزمان از تيم ملى جدا شوند؟ هر كس يك جايش را بهانه كرد و رفت. وى در مورد موافقت فدراسيون با برنامه هاى ۴ ساله قطبى، اظهار داشت: بسيار خوشحالم كه اين اتفاق مى افتد چرا كه تا ۴ سال مى توان راجع به برنامه او حرف زد و لذت برد. ممكن است قول قهرمانى جهان را هم بدهد. قطبى حقش ضايع شده كه ۳ بار اسكار سينماى جهان را نگرفته است. افاضلى با اشاره به اينكه ضمانت مى دهم در پايان برنامه ۴ ساله قطبى فوتبال ايران در حد بنگلادش باشد، گفت: تنها جايى كه بين ژيان و بنز با قيمت بنز، ژيان را انتخاب مى كنند، ايران است.

I had higher expectation and definitly a different language from someone with the abilities of Mr. Afazeli. He is justified to express his opinion, but befarma, beshin va betemarg all mean the same. I am dissapointed the way he expressed himself. But nevertheles he is entitled to his opinion.