Does Iranian football have a future?

[St_Mark]

[zzgloo]

Why our Futsal does so well ?
Why our youth teams do well ?
Why our U-17 can beat Holland,but our adults fail so misrably ?
.................................................

May be following issues can explain :
..
1- lack of coaching and enviroment for development.
2-Distraction of adulthood,and inability of older players to grow within " BAD " system.
3- Not being divided and tempted to go to Arab leagues .
4-The fact that in adult ,and non-futsal football, the talent alone is not sufficiant,to have a better football, and mangement and coaching is more important.

..................................................

My Conclusion :
There is nothing wrong with our " race ",or talent developement,or talent level......Our football, has absolutly nothing to worry about,except mangement.

[persianallstars]

iranian football will never progress if primitive coaching is ruling iranian football. therefore I actually don't regard ghotbi as the angel in the dark moments, coaching must be more professional.

guys like Ghalenoi, Mayeli kohan, Estili etc. are ruining iranian football. but there is still hope e.g. Mohammad Ahmadzadeh, he keeps Malavan up all the time with young players and some older players

[TM-Fan]

It pretty much depends on the political situation in Iran. With the current people in charge of the country our football will definitely not improve.

[zzgloo]

iranian football will never progress if primitive coaching is ruling iranian football. therefore I actually don't regard ghotbi as the angel in the dark moments, coaching must be more professional.

guys like Ghalenoi, Mayeli kohan, Estili etc. are ruining iranian football. but there is still hope e.g. Mohammad Ahmadzadeh, he keeps Malavan up all the time with young players and some older players

These youth tallents that we have,when they do not end up in big leagues, and when they do not develope to adult talents, is all faults of our coaching........when Holland's youth talents whom lost to our youth,end up in " AJAX ", and "munchen Bladbach",and ours get no where...is all the coaching's falut.......the level of coaching and management is too elementary for us to go far.

[Ali Chicago]

Well, I guess watching our u17 playing toe to toe against likes of Holland, Uruguary, etc. shows that we have the potential and future isn't as bad as some of us portray right now.

Iranian football in the past has relied on super stars. Past 5 years we haven't had any super stars. I think many of us mistaken that with lack of progress. Many teams don't make the WC, that is a failuer for sure, but it doesn't mean overall football in that country isn't progressing. Look at the list of the countries who didnt' make WC 2006 and even at this stage of WC2010 qualifications so far I think Croatia and Czesh are out. While this is a set back for sure, one can't conclude football in this countries is going downhill.

Even at IPL, despite what everyone says, league is very competetive, IPL gales at least is being played on schedule. We don't have a super star emerges from the league and still Ali Karimi or Karim Bagheri are the "Go TO" players. But I think this is just an era (lack fo super stars) that Iranian football needs to get used to.


P.S. I used the term Super star to differentiate between players of Karimi caliber vs. likes of Javad Kazemian, Mobali, etc. I consider the latters star and Karimi as a super star.

[zzgloo]

has any one read this book ??

.................................................. ................this book is eye openning....


Soccernomics: Why England Lose, Why Germany and Brazil Win, and Why the U.S., Japan, Australia, Turkey and Even India are Destined to Become the New Kings of the World's Most Popular Sport (Paperback)
by Simon Kuper (Author), Stefan Szymanski (Author)

[St_Mark]

has any one read this book ??

.................................................. ................this book is eye openning....


Soccernomics: Why England Lose, Why Germany and Brazil Win, and Why the U.S., Japan, Australia, Turkey and Even India are Destined to Become the New Kings of the World's Most Popular Sport (Paperback)
by Simon Kuper (Author), Stefan Szymanski (Author)

I start reading it Sunday, So far nothing special nor unexpected revelation. I only saw two passing reference to IRan ( 282-283).

[zzgloo]

I start reading it Sunday, So far nothing special nor unexpected revelation. I only saw two passing reference to IRan ( 282-283).

St_Mark.....I must say, you have always been the most resourceful member here. !!!
There is part in this book, regarding the under-achivers........countries,like IRAN, ENGLAND,USA,etc..have you read that ?

[St_Mark]

St_Mark.....I must say, you have always been the most resourceful member here. !!!
There is part in this book, regarding the under-achivers........countries,like IRAN, ENGLAND,USA,etc..have you read that ?

Thnx dear:
Yes I did, as I recall it was mostly base on his stat and table with interesting conclusion. I had trouble agreeing with those conclusion given assumptions and what actually those number represent.
I am at work, middle of doing few things, but if I get chance later tonight I will elaborate more on this issue.

[St_Mark]

Regarding Underachievers.

Authors (Kuper& Szymansky) spent whole chapter dealing with issue of Underachievers & Overachievers base on their own definition.
Acknowledging Brazil as undisputed world’s champion, author’s attempts to find out if their superiority is absolute or relative.

They focus on 20 years (1980-2001) performance of various countries. In their finding they present a table listing and ranking of nations base on their records at international level (game played .Win, L, D, Win% & GD). Not surprising, Brazil, Germany and France ranked top while Spain and England much lower. Iraq ranked 5th over Serbia, Croatia….
They argued each country's performance in international soccer is closely linked to three factors: 1-population, 2 income per capita (GDP) and its soccer experience /tradition (they used their numbers of their international games) so they recreated their table list with considerations of above 3 factors (allowing for home games too) to have more accurate ranking.
Results put Honduras on top and…. Iraq, Syria, Iran….. Then Brazil Spain.
New table was base on # games, Win, L, D, Win% and critical factor GD.
They refer to this ranking Overachieving factor ranking.
Overacive/underacive => Expected GD-Actual
Since weight & strength of opponents drastically varies, they simplify same table focusing only ob European countries (much similar).
Germany, France, Italy top this chart, Czech, Serbia in middle while England toward the last.
They assemble similar tables for underachievers too and reassemble it similarly base on Population, Experience and GDP.
Authors made conclusion base on those charts, some of conclusion not as one expect.
If one take his presumption, Iraq, Georgia, Serbia... Are relatively stronger country than, say England.

Although they provide lots of information and take bold approach, their methodology, model (Regression analysis of limited factors), especially conclusions are not convincing and their strong points in this cjapter(14)

[zzgloo]

Well, I guess watching our u17 playing toe to toe against likes of Holland, Uruguary, etc. shows that we have the potential and future isn't as bad as some of us portray right now.
Iranian football in the past has relied on super stars. Past 5 years we haven't had any super stars. I think many of us mistaken that with lack of progress. Many teams don't make the WC, that is a failuer for sure, but it doesn't mean overall football in that country isn't progressing. Look at the list of the countries who didnt' make WC 2006 and even at this stage of WC2010 qualifications so far I think Croatia and Czesh are out. While this is a set back for sure, one can't conclude football in this countries is going downhill.
Even at IPL, despite what everyone says, league is very competetive, IPL gales at least is being played on schedule. We don't have a super star emerges from the league and still Ali Karimi or Karim Bagheri are the "Go TO" players. But I think this is just an era (lack fo super stars) that Iranian football needs to get used to.
P.S. I used the term Super star to differentiate between players of Karimi caliber vs. likes of Javad Kazemian, Mobali, etc. I consider the latters star and Karimi as a super star.

Ali Jaan.....how are you my friend ?
Regarding the issue at hand, I agree, and like to add, that, we should pay attention to our ( B ) team........a ( B ) of any country is more representative of its football...........
Managerial issues, and coaching in IRAN,is far more damaging to our football than lack of super Stars !

[zzgloo]

They argued each country's performance in international soccer is closely linked to three factors: 1-population, 2 income per capita (GDP) and its soccer experience /tradition (they used their numbers of their international games) so they recreated their table list with considerations of above 3 factors (allowing for home games too) to have more accurate ranking.

New table was base on # games, Win, L, D, Win% and critical factor GD.
They refer to this ranking Overachieving factor ranking.
Overacive/underacive => Expected GD-Actual
Since weight & strength of opponents drastically varies, they simplify same table focusing only ob European countries (much similar).
Germany, France, Italy top this chart, Czech, Serbia in middle while England toward the last.
They assemble similar tables for underachievers too and reassemble it similarly base on Population, Experience and GDP.
Authors made conclusion base on those charts, some of conclusion not as one expect.
If one take his presumption, Iraq, Georgia, Serbia... Are relatively stronger country than, say England.

Although they provide lots of information and take bold approach, their methodology, model (Regression analysis of limited factors), especially conclusions are not convincing and their strong points in this cjapter(14)

Absolutly fasinating !!!
We have always wondered, why Bahrain should be 4 th Asia, but India last.........so, while those three conditions are important, yet, excesive amont on one condition may make up for the lack of others.....
although,ultimatly, having, Money-Fan, and tradition ,at the same time.....case of Germany........
Therefore, countries, in other to improve, need to work on the condition they lack the most..............for Iran, perhaps, Money and manegment !

[Ali Chicago]

Ali Jaan.....how are you my friend ?
Regarding the issue at hand, I agree, and like to add, that, we should pay attention to our ( B ) team........a ( B ) of any country is more representative of its football...........
Managerial issues, and coaching in IRAN,is far more damaging to our football than lack of super Stars !

I am fine and in survival mode Bahram Jaan. As for the manegerial and coaching, I think we are progressing in that as well. Well not as fast as we would like to (ideally), but still progress. Even we as fans are progressing too. Remember 8 years ago, whether Khodad was being invited to the TM or not was the main issue for Blaz. Last year Ali Karimi wasn't invited and despite grumbles fans learned that it is the coache's decision and didnt' make a huge issue.

Bottom line, I think we are progressing in each area, is it optimal definitly not, but at least in IRI standard we are progressing. Now you may say, we have much more potential and all that and I totally agree, but as long as we have IRI, one can't expect more.

[St_Mark]

Then it was 08-02-2009, 11:36 AM

Most of those class are famous and key players for their clubs and some TM.
Hope new generation can do better.