From Ghotbi and Political Football to: This is not my "TEAM MELLI".

[Hajagha]

I can not ignore that football is the highlight of my life. Besides football, I follow Political news, with no serious activity in politics. Today, it should have been odd (which was not) that Ghotbi became (and still is) the hottest topic on most political sites while he should have been discussed in a site such as PFDC (in footbal forum and not General forum!!!???). Although most articles label him as a traitor and scum, still few try to bring excuses such as "pressure" for him.

...Thinking, even if Ghotbi is forced to be in a political meeting (which I doubt), where most people (or at least a large number of people) seriously opposed to be in such a place, is "Iranian National Team" still "Team Melli"? Or is it more of a "Governmental Team"?

Of course I don't claim that this is Ghotbi's team, but still does this team represent Iran and deserve to be called "Team Melli"? In my book, we should reserve this meaningful title for the real Team Melli when its members are not crossed/chosen for their political background or social behavior. The team with a coach/manager/IFF were not crossed/chosen with their presence in a political meeting.

Well till next announcement:

This is not my "TEAM MELLI".

Cheers,

[Doctor DOOM]

Call it "Shoroo-e Shoom" for the bugger.

[zzgloo]

I can not ignore that football is the highlight of my life. Besides football, I follow Political news, with no serious activity in politics. Today, it should have been odd (which was not) that Ghotbi became (and still is) the hottest topic on most political sites while he should have been discussed in a site such as PFDC (in footbal forum and not General forum!!!???). Although most articles label him as a traitor and scum, still few try to bring excuses such as "pressure" for him.
...Thinking, even if Ghotbi is forced to be in a political meeting (which I doubt), where most people (or at least a large number of people) seriously opposed to be in such a place, is "Iranian National Team" still "Team Melli"? Or is it more of a "Governmental Team"?
Of course I don't claim that this is Ghotbi's team, but still does this team represent Iran and deserve to be called "Team Melli"? In my book, we should reserve this meaningful title for the real Team Melli when its members are not crossed/chosen for their political background or social behavior. The team with a coach/manager/IFF were not crossed/chosen with their presence in a political meeting.
Well till next announcement:
This is not my "TEAM MELLI".
Cheers,

haji Jaan...I do not understand your point....

1-If you mean,players are selected by thier loyality to the regim....It appears that all players who are good and not retired are selected,and not by thier poletical affiliations.
2-If you mean, this team is servering the interests of the regim...I should say,that is not anything new,as Islamic regim had always used TM as its own propaganda machine.
3- and if it is about Ghotbi's participation in Government propaganda.......What wuould have him do ? if he is asked to participate ?..........
e Iranians of American back ground, are not as safely situated as ,lets say Ghalenoee , and we are more vulonerable.....Ghotbi, or I who travel to Iran often, need to be " Low profile ", and never confront the system, as we are " GAAVE E PISHANI SEFID ".......
Ghotbi has no poletical agenda, and there is nothing wrong with that, and only wants to survive .
............................
Yet, there is a thread, on this very F+ forum, which I initiated," Majid jaan made it "sticky ", about " players and Poletics ",in which players such as mahdavikia are what we need the most in our TM.

[Hajagha]

e Iranians of American back ground, are not as safely situated as ,lets say Ghalenoee ,

Choice, we have choice as long as we have another passport in our pocket. He can easily quit, can't he?

He is there for money, I don't have any problem with that. But, I do have choice to not consider this team as my "Team Melli" as well, don't I?

Let's this governmental football runs for itself, this is not the football I love. The governmental clubs, the players under behavior scoring system, the IFF selected by Ministry of Intelligence who has no idea who is Liverpool coach, the club managers who never wear a football boot, the coach who is selected by his participation in inauguration ceremony, ....

I deserve better than that.

[zzgloo]

Choice, we have choice as long as we have another passport in our pocket. He can easily quit, can't he?
He is there for money, I don't have any problem with that. But, I do have choice to not consider this team as my "Team Melli" as well, don't I?
Let's this governmental football runs for itself, this is not the football I love. The governmental clubs, the players under behavior scoring system, the IFF selected by Ministry of Intelligence who has no idea who is Liverpool coach, the club managers who never wear a football boot, the coach who is selected by his participation in inauguration ceremony, ....
I deserve better than that.

.........................................

Where have you been ?
Did you just find out about this regim and about this football ?

.........................................

Do you also blame those millions who came to streets 40 days ago, and are no longer on streets ?
Do you also want to bycot those millions ? will that be your choice too ?

..........................................

Ghotbi, by not attending that " BS " ceremony would have acted a protest which may have put him in Danger....specialy for one who carries an American passport.........and he ,like those millions got affraid........as it is his " Universal human right " to think of his own survival.....
........................................
It is Nobel to sacrifize for one's country,as I said it in another thread, But we can not, and we must not, Demand it .

[Doctor DOOM]

well, the sooner we get rid of him, the better.
I dont want the asia cup dream to be farted away just becoz we couldnt trust anyone else.
starting to bash him for this treacherous move seems a good starting point for me. haha!

God knows, most probably he'll wimp out and play his 4-6-0 formation against turkmenistan or something!

but bahram jan, you gotta admit the bugger definitely had a choice.
he could have done what many other stars and important sports personalities had done. and I just dont see why you bring in the civilian population into this. what's the connection?
with fame there comes duty also. or do you think a man can enjoy the fame and adulation of the masses, but is excused from his duty towards them?
it was his duty as someone whom many ppl look up to, to do the right thing by the masses.
it was his responsibility.
now, your argument can be: "well maybe he WANTED to attend it. and saw this as his duty too"
then that can be true and then we cant blame him for standing on his beliefs that AN IS the rightful & legitimate prez. ( which sort of destroys ghotbi's rep EVEN MORE than the half-assed, lame excuse of "oh, he was forced"! )
so you cannot and shd not compare him with regular folk on the streets who are slaughtered and noone will know what happened to them just becoz they arent famous or popular.
no comparison is justified.


afterall, there's a saying that goes like: the man who stands by and does nothing is no less guilty than the one who commits a crime. as you can see all over the net fans are dismayed about this. and for good reason.

[The-Red]

my two cents:

Ghotbi az cheshmam oftad,,,he turned his back to the people who loved him so much...
point two, as far as TM,,,Team MELLI teameh Mellateh, team_E dolat nist, hich vaght naboodeh,,,I personally can not boycott TM, I strongly believe that TM belongs to the nation, not the government, even if ran by the murderers.

I have more doubts about our football everyday under antarinejad's regime, so we''ll see how they use football during these crucial times as a tool, or how will the people use it to express their true feelings about the murderers.

[Ali Chicago]

I can not ignore that football is the highlight of my life. Besides football, I follow Political news, with no serious activity in politics. Today, it should have been odd (which was not) that Ghotbi became (and still is) the hottest topic on most political sites while he should have been discussed in a site such as PFDC (in footbal forum and not General forum!!!???). Although most articles label him as a traitor and scum, still few try to bring excuses such as "pressure" for him.
...Thinking, even if Ghotbi is forced to be in a political meeting (which I doubt), where most people (or at least a large number of people) seriously opposed to be in such a place, is "Iranian National Team" still "Team Melli"? Or is it more of a "Governmental Team"?
Of course I don't claim that this is Ghotbi's team, but still does this team represent Iran and deserve to be called "Team Melli"? In my book, we should reserve this meaningful title for the real Team Melli when its members are not crossed/chosen for their political background or social behavior. The team with a coach/manager/IFF were not crossed/chosen with their presence in a political meeting.
Well till next announcement:
This is not my "TEAM MELLI".
Cheers,

Hajj Agha;
By "political meeting" are you refering to him being in the Ahmadinezhad's presidential swearing ceremony? Or I missed something? I am a football junkie, so I still follow this Iranian team, even if its member had to pass certain filters that for the most part is imposed on them.

[The-Red]

Ali jan yes that's what Haji is refering to...the fact is that he could have not attended and he KNEW that the majority of the ppl did not want their favor football man to attend this ceremony, just like they did not want their favorit icons in the society attend it, which most of them did not...Ghotbi could have excused himself and he would not have been forced too...he lives in Dubai anyways and could have sided with the ppl...right before the elections btw he said on TV that he is for change in Iran and all of a sudden his signs a renewal contract and everything changes!!!

[maij]

I find it quite interesting how Team Melli coaches are being loved or hated by various people based on different criterion and parameters !
Such reasons swings between political to personalty , while ability of the coach does not seem to be a top priority.

What makes Team Melli coach , or any coach for that matter popular ?

For the life of me , I can't see anything likable in Ghotbi.....If someone helps me understand Ghotbi's good deeds or the good side of him , I might have a change of heart !

As for Hajagha's point , I sincerely sympathize with his feelings.....and the question he has raised is very valid.

Like it or not , Team Melli in its entirety is being politically manipulated, more than ever before for obvious reasons.

This question is not new, it has been asked many times in the last 3 decades .... I had no hesitation where I stood before . I did not care who was in the pink palace...I was football hungry ....

The situation is a quite different now.......I seriously need to ask myself , if supporting Team Melli means supporting its sponsors and masters and in doing so ( supporting TM , that is ) I am actually siding with certain policies , parties or supporting a regime that kills innocent & defenseless protesters ..... it is a legitimate question , and frankly , not that simple to answer.


Another interesting finding I find in this generation of footballers is that.....the likes of Parviz Ghleechkhani are a rare breed ( regardless whether one supports his political views or not)

[zzgloo]

My view on this, is not of a phylosophical nature....nor is it poletical,nor is it very logical ( I admit )...it is based on heart felt,personal experince !
I have traveled to Iran,once or twice a year,for the last 15 years..and each time I at least stayed for a month......and here is my experince of liveing in Iran , as An iranian whom lives,and has lived for long out side of the country.
Iranians within Iran, can easily notice us,no matter how hard we try to blend in....it is the way we talk ( not the accent )but how we formulate things we want to say.......they ,while are interested in us,but never consider us as Iranians........
I have always, felt as an out sider,and I have always felt,intimidated,in a sence,that country is not mine....if a police man stops us, they will not let us go, as a local person may get away very easily...if there is a fight, there is no one to back us up.....if there is an issue,there is no one who understand our way of thinking.......etc,etc.....
In all, I constantly feel left out....and i constantly feel,I am different .....and never realy, feel I have same concerns as all others do.....and in a way...it is a lonely life !.........
A person like Ghotbi, or me for that matter.....feels as he needs to proves his belonging to the country to the authurities..he feels,he needs to prove he loves the country........he needs to prove," I am one of you " !
............................
Ghotbi, is no one special...perhaps, a shallow individual,( typical califiornian ),and far less than ,a poletical activist....
had he stayed away from presidential invitation ,and not attended that ceremony...we all would have praized him,and considered that a brave and a couragouse act.................
The problem with Ghotbi is that he is not that brave,nor with that much substance.......and in my way of thinking, that is not a crime !

[Doctor DOOM]

I agree with parts of bahram jan's comments on ghotbi being a shallow, weak, money-minded individual , from whom we shd never expect anything grand or decent.

but I also do not agree with over-dramatizing of expats going to Iran.
they're not "alone" as bahram puts it. he paints it like the expats are little shivering, lonely rabbits in the middle of a pack of wolves!
absolutely not.

so using this excuse to justify ghotbi's pathetic decision to agree or concede or ... (whatever you like to call it) to the IFF's orders just doesnt work.

we must understand the most he'd have lost in the matter was his job.
but he'd have become an instant national hero, who would always be held dear in Iranians' hearts and would have definitely found the job in Iran due to this very popular support.

but becoz he is weak, shallow in mind and body, he crumbled !!

[zzgloo]

Payman Jaan.....
Jesus Christ , once said : " let he who has not sined,cast the first stone "

[Masoud_A]

Payman Jaan.....
Jesus Christ , once said : " let he who has not sined,cast the first stone "

Thats why people who are in the streets fighting for their freedom are casting the stones at him, my brother my friends and my ex-classmates are all fighting for their freedom in Iran they are getting, beaten, tortured, raped and killed, and they are/were supporters of TM, Im sure everyone here has a family member or a friend in Iran who has been affected the same way, do not play with the words ZZ jan, as you said TM is teame mellat, and mellat is being publicaly crushed on the streets while its Coach/sarparast attend the ceremony for the installation of the one responsible for all this, now tell me is this Teame mellat?

[maij]

Bahram Jan , now I know the secret of your passion for Ghotbi. The fact that you relate to him being an expatriate Iranian and some of the problems you face during your visits to homeland, makes you sympathize with the man.

Many people , like you , have diverse reasons for liking or disliking the man at the helm of Team Melli. I always suspected that countless people don't really consider ability of the coach as prime selection criteria. Things like club affiliations, partisan, nepotism, race , looks and attitude comes to mind as the measurement of a coach suitability!!.

And we wonder why the football in Iran is in the reverse gear !

However , Bahram Agha , philosophical or not , one really must have priorities in life and put some issues ahead of entertainment such as football. In this case , we are talking about human life and human rights. When it comes to these, and for the sake of football how can one ignore the question of life and death and turn a blind eye on atrocities committed by the regime and violations of our brothers or sisters rights!