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**persianallstars** · 11-14-2009, 09:25 AM

1- HEYDARI CRAP
2- HAJSAFI CRAP
3-THANK GOD NEKOUNAM

end of the story

**Martin-Reza** · 11-14-2009, 09:29 AM

He changed to 4-3-3. Good that he changed back to 4-2-3-1 in second half.

I was disappointed by nearly all players in first half, with the change at halftime, the performance of the team became much better.

I didn't like the performances of Hajsafi and Heydari until the end though.

Shojaei was better in second half after a horrible first half, but still playing far below his potential.

Nekounam the matchwinner (as usual), but he also lacked concentration towards the end.

I personally liked the performances of Khalatbari and Madanchi. Also Teymourian in second half was splendid. Majidi brought fresh air.

My new favourite is Ansarifard. This guy still needs to learn a lot, but he has huge potential and is a big hope for the nokeh hamleh post.

**Martin-Reza** · 11-14-2009, 10:01 AM

Let me add that it became quite obvious today that 4-2-3-1 is not a defensive system. Ghotbi implemented a classic 4-3-3 in first half and then switched to the more offensive 4-2-3-1 by adding an offensive player for a more defensive player.

**Doctor DOOM** · 11-14-2009, 10:06 AM

^ funny how you dont mention his 4-3-3 was not done correctly as he employed 3 def mids and in 4-3-3 you dont put 3 of them there.
so wrong implementation of a formation doesnt mean the formation is bad.

as much as it is valid for 4-2-3-1 which may be good for others, but if we dont have the right players for it, then it is wrong.

4-2-3-1 has been proven AGAIN AND AGAIN to be the wrong one for us.
hala hey begim "it's modern" "it's great", "france plays it, the dutch play it, X and Y play it" till we grow hairs on our tongue .... that do NOT change the reality of IRAN's TM

**Martin-Reza** · 11-14-2009, 10:10 AM

There were no 3 DMs. But 1 DM and 2 CMs. Just that you think actual OMs are more suitable for CM positions than players who often play DM. Any coach in the world will disagree.

**Doctor DOOM** · 11-14-2009, 10:19 AM

I'm bored with these protracted arguments.
I'll be as telegraphic as possible:

putting 3 def mids when the team CLEARLY lacks a playmaker in the middle is dumb.
the most glaring defect of TM in recent times has been THE LACK OF CREATIVITY & A PLAYMAKER.

and just becoz he placed neku or ando as a CM, does not magically transform their style of football. they're still defensive minded players who cannot deliver playmaking duties.

what's next?
if we put nosrati as CM, it's ok?

what's the idea/
filling a spot in the formation?
or
delivering the duties of a spot?

**Martin-Reza** · 11-14-2009, 10:41 AM

There is no classic playmaker in a 4-3-3.

Anyway, I am sick of discussing tactics with someone who thinks whatever he can imagine is realistic and that Ghotbi and Buter know less about a 4-3-3 than him.

**Doctor DOOM** · 11-14-2009, 12:03 PM

1-
(filling the spots in a formation) VS. (actually delivering the duties of each spot)

two very different things

2- I can spot a wimp a mile away.
a wimp who like some other wimps, fill up their teams with defensive players, no matter how weak and poor the opposition, or where the game's held or ... etc etc etc.

one can read into the above 2 points great many answers.

**maij** · 11-14-2009, 04:30 PM

Never been a technical analyst nor am I too interested in tactical plans , but having Nekounam , Teymourian and Nouri (all defensive midfielders in my book) against a feeble team like Jordan is ........a crime (in football terms)

Thanks God for Javad Nekounam, he is a saving grace.

**yashar_fasihnia** · 11-14-2009, 09:52 PM

lol @ 4-2-3-1 having repeatedly proven to be a failure...

nothing new though....

leaving out khalatbari is a crime.... ghotbi should stop playing pejman nouri in every damn game at the cost of khalatbari who is our most dangerous player at the moemnt! he did that in the worldcup qualifiers as well....

good that he has dropped kaebi to the bench, he has been mediocre for a long time now. bad that heydari has moved to right back position instead of right midfield position which brings the best out of him. we could either play heydari as RB, Khalatbari as RM, madanchi as LM and hajisafi as LB, or play sheys as RB, heydari as RM, khalatbari as LM and find a defensively more stable player like beygzadeh or someone else as LB, thereby making both madanchi and hajisafi as super subs. this will weaken our offensive moves from the 2 sides but make us defensively stronger, atleast on the 2 flanks.
or we can continue the same way with heydari and hajisafi as our 2 full backs (hopefully no pejman nouri for khalatbari) thereby increasing our offensive potency on the 2 flanks but weaken our defense line even more from not the only the middle now, but also the 2 sides.

andranik was pleasantly surpising. for someone who hasnt been playing at all for a long time, he won almost every tackle and even had good ball possession and dribbling skills when surrounded by defenders and maintained good compsure. a bit unlucky he couldnt finish his great performance with that shot which was saved on the line. but still, he atleast got the assist to be proud of.

i still dont like the idea of hajisafi as LB, defensively he still looks lost but against jordan it was not so obvious.
madanchi as usual, works hard, runs for 90 minutes, but still the usual madanchi who will never be a top player!

nosrati is still mentally weak. he appears to be an emotional player unfortunately. i hope hosseini comes back soon otherwise im afraid he will make more blunders again. he showed those signs yesterday as well but luckily, a 10 man jordanian team wasnt exactly a team to highlight this point!

given the current state of our players and football, i think i like to see milad meydavoudi and mohammad nouri more...

**Doctor DOOM** · 11-15-2009, 07:38 AM

^ I agree with the khalatbari, heydari, kaabi, ... pretty much everything except the first sentence.

but laughing at the 4-2-3-1 comments?
why?
is it because we've had massive success with this formation and have won sh*tload of trophies with it and have qualified for the WC and whatnot?
is it becoz we handily defeated superior teams like uae's youth team and how we pulverized the saudis in iran and how we crushed the koreans in tehran and .... etc etc etc (sadly or fortunately there are PLENTY of examples)?

really?

or shd the comments be discounted by the masterful technical display of the team, showing great moves and performances?

still laughing?
so exactly WHAT is there to keep us from saying 4-2-3-1 hasnt worked for us?

**yashar_fasihnia** · 11-15-2009, 09:37 AM

we had this discussion last time and i showed u the results we had with 4-2-3-1.

they werent poor results and we had beaten most of our opponents with the same formation. bosnia, croatia, costa rica, jamaica and some teams who arent actually power houses but we did actually get decent results against them. how does this prove to be a failure???
the same can be said at club level with sepahan reaching the world club championships wiht 4-2-3-1, perspolis winning the league with 4-2-3-1, etc.....

the problem is u dont have a clear bench mark when comparing 4-2-3-1 as a failure to some other formation and their results. ur only benchmark is some imaginary results and displays which u think TM is capable of given all other circumstances constant.

did we beat brazil and germany when we played 4-4-2 or 3-5-2?
did we win shit loads of trophies when we played 4-4-2 or 3-5-2?
did we trash UAE when we played 4-4-2 or 3-5-2?
and the list goes on as well.....

and as to why im laughing at ur comment?
its because with all due respect, ur a nobody in the world of professional football, just like me or 99.99% of this forum. so to sit and make comments like, this formation has proven to be a failure can only be interpreted as a joke. the question is, TO WHOM HAS IT PROVEN TO BE A FAILURE? to doctor doom and his friends from PFDC?? based on wat? based on nothing but his interpretation of football that too without even having complete information of whats happening behind the curtains in iranian football...
so ur judgement cant be taken seriously, nor can mine or anyone elses here, if such a judgement is made at all....

even if ur a professional in the world of football who is coming on pfdc in disguise, such interpretations such as this formation is a failure or that player is not national team material is subjective and such debates and opinions vary even between experts.

so if u do make more of such comments, i will still laugh

**Doctor DOOM** · 11-15-2009, 10:51 AM

^ heh.

1- you are imminently correct to speak for yourself

2- forgive me if I discard your words that are uttered by a ( to quote you ) "nobody" and listen to a professional expert like hajrezaei who clearly said 4-2-3-1 is not working for our team

**Martin-Reza** · 11-15-2009, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Doctor DOOM View Post

^ I agree with the khalatbari, heydari, kaabi, ... pretty much everything except the first sentence.

but laughing at the 4-2-3-1 comments?
why?
is it because we've had massive success with this formation and have won sh*tload of trophies with it and have qualified for the WC and whatnot?
is it becoz we handily defeated superior teams like uae's youth team and how we pulverized the saudis in iran and how we crushed the koreans in tehran and .... etc etc etc (sadly or fortunately there are PLENTY of examples)?

really?

or shd the comments be discounted by the masterful technical display of the team, showing great moves and performances?

still laughing?
so exactly WHAT is there to keep us from saying 4-2-3-1 hasnt worked for us?

You could repeat the same thing, but replace "4-2-3-1 formation" by "white jerseys", and it would make as much sense

.

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