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    Your assessment of past 3 TM coaches.

    On the eve of the qatar tourney and from what it looks like, the possible dismissal of ghotbi, in his worthless honor, I'd like to start a discussion on our own assessment of the past 3 TM coaches.

    it's rather simple.
    what we liked about him and what we didnt.
    sort of a pros and cons from OUR personal point of view.

    in order of appearance:
    1- GN
    2- Daei
    3- Ghotbi

    =======================

    1) GN

    LIKES:

    - for starters I think his record and stats beats the other 2 men.

    - I guess he did show a bit of variation in his formation and tactics, which is always a positive for me

    - initially he looked quite adventurous and aggressive and that paid dirt for the team. he, like EVERY OTHER VATANI COACH we've had, lost his nerves and become overtly cautious only in the middle of asia cup games, and the highlight of his catious mind was the korean game. where we dominated the koreans but poor substitutions and gameplan for the final stretch of the game resulted in the draw and .... the rest is history

    DISLIKES:
    - as mentioned above, his later-stage cautiousness which cost us the asia cup
    his poor substitutions in the korean game was just the last nail on the coffin

    - his insistence on khatibi and eneyati beyond reasonable limits. I understand and agree we could have had them in the team. but too much reliance on them was wrong.

    - his unpolished and naive behavior and speeches really was unbecoming of a nat'l team coach


    =====================

    2) DAEI

    LIKES
    :

    - He had bundles of experience and exposure to top grade football.

    - he oozed with charisma which would have made him a very dominant coach, especially among the new generation

    - he showed variety in tactics and formations

    - for the LB, he brought in ashjari, who was miles of improvement over that zareh chap
    (he did bring in other players like khalatbari and rezaei and ... . but that is a normal trend in any TM as coaches bring in the in-form players of the time. so he did the normal thing. not doing it would have been a negative mark)

    - the team was rejuvenated and with fresh blood coming in, we looked like a team on the rise. aside from his personal shit with a few players, the doors of TM was open to all of the league.

    - his appetite and hunger & desire to achieve (seen mostly in earlier stages of his tenure. near the end, he was too confused or unprepared for this stage)

    DISLIKES:

    - his mixing of his personal issues with a few players (karimi, mobaali, ..) really deprived the team of more strength and efficiency at a time that we needed it the most.

    - much like other vatani coaches, lost his nerves during the WCQ's final round and became overtly cautious. culminating in the horrible choices he made during the saudi game and the south korea in tehran. poor substitution choices, single forward even in games we needed to win or were behind, .... etc.

    - inflexibility to deal with criticism, even those constructive ones that would have helped him and TM a lot if he had the ears (and the sense).

    =========================

    3) GHOTBI

    LIKES:


    - he is refined and his calm and respectful demeanor shd be a model to our vatani coaches

    - he also, like daei, kept the doors of the team open to all players in form. for me, I'd even add: he brought kazemian and mobaali back to TM deservedly.


    DISLIKES:

    - his insistence on a set formation, no matter what the situation and circumstances of the team or game. referring to the signle forward line up, even when we needed to win (hint at uae and north korea games in wcq's)

    - his lack of variation in tactics as the team plays a monotonous game with no real spikes in performance. this monotony would have been ideal if we were playing GOOD football. but we're playing poor quality football and we just cant seem to be able to raise it!

    - senseless benching of the league's top performer, khalatbari with no explanation

    - his lack of appetitie for goals and convincing victories. he just lacks the hunger or the fire in the belly (showed in GN and Daei) to over-achieve. any meager, paltry result will do for him!!

    - garbage promises (we know all of those about WCQ', the south korean game, now, the asia cup) that only show his naive, immature nature that wants to please ppl no matter how ridiculous the promise. or just a charlatan who thinks he can fool the ppl with empty but big promises. take ur pick

    ==================

    in the end let me say for all our vatani coaches there is a red line where they lose their sense of adventure and lose their nerves and become cautious and passive. each and every one of them has shown this.
    this line depends on the importance of a crucial occasion (asia cup, wcq, ... ) and exists for everyone.
    the problem is for some the line is reached very early and in not so dire occasions like ghotbi, and for some it takes a while to reach that line and the team enjoyed a longer spell of aggressive, positive and offensive style like GN

    #2
    1- GN

    was, and is the best Iranian coach....,he was not given enough chances, not nearly as much as , Branko,daei,and Ghotbi had had.He will be a champ again with Sepahan this year,as a proof ,once again ,to be the best in what IRAN can offer in coaching.

    .............

    2- Daei

    He was a Bad Joke,.......
    As a player,while he scored a record goal,yet they were not due to his talents( he hardly could drible any body,nor had he had any speed )...it was more due to his hieght and ( Ghayrat ),which not many Iranian players have had,specialy at his position.......
    and as a coach, he is without any knowledge ( despite his time in Europe),nor smarts to manage a team, specialy at national level.He gave no teaching,only shoveling around new players...and TM at the time, was not strong enough to such massive changes,nor ability to do without stars........He damaged Iranian football,as a coach, more than any coach in our history.

    ..................

    3- Branko

    While he got his chance of his life from TM,and he would not have been a head coach,had TM not given him the oppurtunity.....yet, he with his PHD,indeed was smart,and handled Iranian culture ( foriegn to him ) pretty well............He has had the best record,all time, among all Iranian coaches,through out our History,and he should be respected accordingly.He brought stability,where stability was not possible.Under Branko,TM had highest FIFA ranking in our history. ( 15 th ),...a task that may never be repeated !
    Last edited by zzgloo; 12-19-2009, 09:47 AM.

    Comment


      #3
      bahram jan
      1- I didnt ask for opinion on daei as a player. we're just assessing his coaching , which I have differing opinion to urs.

      2- branko digeh cheh khariyeh?
      he was given 5 years to get his mediocre results. I'm sure if u give even ghotbi 5 yrs he WILL get at least the same as that freaking wimp, if not better. the idiot had the longest tenure for a coach. this is something most of you ppl forget. five years allows you a lot of leeway and room.
      where was GN's security? being a vatani, he was attacked from the get go till the end. never enjoyed the kind of security that croatian wimp enjoyed!
      where was daei's even? he too wasnt exactly let off easy.
      so before we bring his stupid name I recommend we take in ALL the peripheral issues as well.

      we're checking on the last 3 vatani coaches to find their good points as well as the bad ones.
      all 3 of whom got their orders prematurely and too early. if we had waited for a few more years, I am sure all these 3 would have done a better job

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Doctor DOOM View Post

        2- branko digeh cheh khariyeh?
        that freaking wimp,
        the idiot
        croatian wimp !
        his stupid name
        My dear payman.....You analysis of Branko,does not sound objective !
        But frankly ,I admit,I feel very similar about Daei...so,we are even !!!!!!!!!!!!!
        ...........
        Many,keep bringing up daei,s playing time when they want to support his coaching !!!,and I had to explain,it was not relevent.
        ...........
        Branko had 5 years,because he did nothing to be fired for...he got IRAN to a very good Asian games aand results...he got Iran to 15 th rank of FIFA,and he got IRAN to the world cup.............what els do you want from a country with big problems,and mediocre football in Asia?
        .........
        Last edited by zzgloo; 12-19-2009, 09:33 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          First of all, I don't think even IFF will be so stupid to fire a coach after a friendly tournament.

          Anyway, I think GN is not a special coach to me, I mean compared to international coaches. He doesn't do much wrong, but he is not the man for special ideas, able to compete on highest level.

          Daei could have been a special coach, but his appointment came too late. He was forced to initialize a transition period during a WCQ campaign. I am sure had he been appointed immediately after AC 2007 and would have had 6 months time prior to the first phase of WCQ, things would be very different now. Other than most, I think he was not affected by personal feelings. Not inviting all the veterans all the time was the right decision, especially not to call up a not fully fit Karimi for KSA was absolutely a correct decision based on the circumstances. If he had just put a second man on the far post during the Saudi corner when the score was 1-1, instead of leaving an extra man upfront for a counter attack in order to maybe still get the winner, we'd be at WC now. Interestingly, someone often critisized for a too defensive approach in the end failed due to too much risk. Again ironically, Saudi's coach made the exact same mistake against Bahrain, which cost them WC. In Saud's case, they didn't even need another goal at all, so it was just plain stupid.

          Ghotbi on the other hand is not a special coach either. Other than most Iranian coaches, he is used to absolute professionalism and knows how to organize though. Like Daei, but unlike GN, he has a quite good coaching staff. Other than his predecessors, I don't think he has too much respect from the players, which makes his job harder.

          Branko almost was the perfect coach for Iran. He built a great team, added defensive stability. Introduced the fourback and many young players to the country. Playing under him, we always could be sure we'd not get humiliated by any team and there always existed the chance of success.
          Last edited by Martin-Reza; 12-20-2009, 03:52 AM.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by zzgloo View Post
            My dear payman.....You analysis of Branko,does not sound objective !
            But frankly ,I admit,I feel very similar about Daei...so,we are even !!!!!!!!!!!!!
            ...........
            Many,keep bringing up daei,s playing time when they want to support his coaching !!!,and I had to explain,it was not relevent.
            ...........
            Branko had 5 years,because he did nothing to be fired for...he got IRAN to a very good Asian games aand results...he got Iran to 15 th rank of FIFA,and he got IRAN to the world cup.............what els do you want from a country with big problems,and mediocre football in Asia?
            .........
            wow! isnt that shocking???

            anyways, this gentleman once never asked himself if branko was so shit like he claims, he would have been fired much earlier and not renewed his contract with almost everybody being happy with this decision! 5 years also gives u more time to be criticized, to perform poorly and to lose matches and be attacked in media yet he survived for 5 years! this is wat some people dont realize!

            the fact that he was our coach for 5 years speaks how much everyone from the authorities to the fans and media were happy for him, atleast majority were
            and im glad to see nowadays many people barring the same few over here are now realizing their mistakes in their judgement about branko and his worth which can be seen in the forums

            lol as for ghotbi been given 5 years time to do better than branko, ghotbi should EARN his 5 year contract first!

            as if it is worth anything, I CAN PROMISE, if mayelli kohan is given 5 years time, he will win asian cup for us and take us to 2nd round of world cup! hala ye MARD, YE NAFAS KESH BIYAD AND PROVE ME WRONG!

            ---------------------------------------------------

            anyways, back to the last 3 vatani coaches,
            i agree with peyman about GN and daei but i think daei invited a lot more of no name and younger players than GN and ghotbi and ever since, these players are now being kept an eye on, if not by ghotbi, atleast by media, fans and critics which itself is appreciable.

            i was really hoping GN could be a breath of fresh air among the iranian coaches since he did really well in IPL, but his ACL tenure last season made me doubtful although our group was really tough and we were really unlucky with missing some empty penalties and empty nets and conceding some really stupid goals.
            so while GN is doing great in IPL, i will try to make a better judgement of him in ACL again since this IPL has proven how unprofessional and elementary the teams, the referee and the players are and i dont consider it a "melak" for judgement anymore.

            as for ghotbi, i like him the least of the last 3 coaches and dont have much faith in him and his abilities. so as usual, i am hoping our teams individual talents can carry us and maybe ghotbi's can only inject his positivity and PR characteristics into the team for more support for the team and some confidence in the team!
            Last edited by yashar_fasihnia; 12-20-2009, 07:13 AM.
            Originally posted by siavasharian
            ESTEGHLAL:

            بهترین خط دفاع.بهترین خط حمله.ثبت رکورد بیشترین گل زده.پر امتیاز ترین تیم ادوار لیگ برتر با ۴۰۹ امتیاز.پر افتخار ترین مربی لیگ برتر با دو قهرمانی
            بهترین گلزن لیگ: آرش برهانی [استقلال] با ۲۱ گل زدهبهترین خط حمله: استقلال تهران با ۷۰ گل زده

            Comment


              #7
              I don want to make this about branko, as I've asked to assess the past 3 coaches who are all vatani ones.
              but to enlighten branko's fans I must say he enjoyed tremendous security in his job that none of the vatani ones even came close to. for example GN was fired for drawing with south korea and losing on penalties!

              secondly, since yashar seems to have forgotten all those threads during the WC, I made it clear branko may have been enough (more or less) for asian teams, but for the WC, I knew before playing in it, that he'd be a disaster, too little and small for that competition, too limited in knowledge and too scared and cautious to help Iran in a situation (and group) which could have provided Iran the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity of doing something great in the WC.

              anyway. the past is past.
              I'd like to discuss what's happening now. and I really think this qatar tourney will have a detrimental impact on ghotbi, even if he isnt fired becoz of it.

              Comment


                #8
                ^ good that you pulled out of the Branko discussion in order not to make it a Branko thread .

                Comment


                  #9
                  Lets ask questions about our coaches:
                  .....
                  1- Which coach, presented a team with lowest quality of performance ?
                  2-Which coach, Embaressed our country the most ?
                  3-which coach,was the most arrogant ?
                  4-which coach delivered the least ?
                  5-Which coach,Had lowest wining percentage ?
                  ............
                  These questions,are more foundemental, and the answer to them will clear the Air, and helps us in objectibity.....
                  and without any doubt, ALI DAEI, is the answer to all above questions.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by zzgloo View Post
                    Lets ask questions about our coaches:
                    .....
                    1- Which coach, presented a team with lowest quality of performance ?
                    2-Which coach, Embaressed our country the most ?
                    3-which coach,was the most arrogant ?
                    4-which coach delivered the least ?
                    5-Which coach,Had lowest wining percentage ?
                    ............
                    These questions,are more foundemental, and the answer to them will clear the Air, and helps us in objectibity.....
                    and without any doubt, ALI DAEI, is the answer to all above questions.





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                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by maij View Post
                      Our objective in creating F+ was to enrich PFDC discussion board with mature, civilized, informative and unbiased viewpoints on all topics. When there is a need for criticism, then it should be constructive, Objective, useful, balanced and impersonal. Even if the post does not contain such attributes, then, at least the criticism should be in good taste.

                      However, what I see from Bahram is one unsavory , continual attack at Ali Daei as if he has a personal vendetta with the man !

                      Frankly, I take this as an insult and sign of disrespect NOT just to Ali Daei but to the masses that think very highly of him as a servant of Iranian football , despite his imperfection. It is an insult at a symbol of Iranian football.
                      The prejudice and the severity of attack is simply intolerable, to say the least. Out of respect, I would reserve using the words that I really think that describes what I think of it….hoping that Bahram reciprocates similar respects and refrains from such outlandish verbal’s .

                      Majid jaan,
                      There is no reason to be offended........or get your feelings involved !!
                      why do n,t you just answer the above questions !!!
                      Which coach was the most arrogant ?.....just name a name......
                      Which coach embaressed TM the most ?.......,just come up with one name !
                      Which coach offered the least complecated performance ?......just state your opinion......
                      .........
                      Any time, some one states an opinion,that is not in line with your opinion, you remind,every one, ( what was the intention behind F+,) and you remind yourself of your power ( being a MOD,and ability to eliminat posts,and members ) in to the discussion.....
                      ..........
                      What I have written,is by no means the most insulting,nor the least objective we all see ..........it only,conflicts with your ,out of this word, emotional opinion of Daei..
                      ..........
                      Just listen to yourself :
                      regarding me asking 5 questions,and my single answer to them...
                      here is what you have said in your above post.which 70% of which are :

                      Immature,
                      uncivilized,
                      uninformative,
                      Biased,
                      critical,
                      nonconstructive,
                      nonobjective,
                      unuseful,
                      imbalanced,
                      personal,
                      Bad taste,
                      unsavory,
                      continual attack,
                      personal vandetta,
                      insult,
                      disrepect,
                      prejudice,
                      severity of attack,
                      intolerable,
                      outlandish,
                      ,,etc
                      ......WOWWWWWWWWWWWW
                      I am realy glad, you reserved the words,you realy thought you should say :
                      .......
                      To me, you are just as emotional as Payman,and need to be more objective.....
                      and objectively speaking,...so do I !!!!!!
                      Last edited by zzgloo; 12-22-2009, 06:30 PM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by zzgloo View Post
                        Lets ask questions about our coaches:
                        .....
                        1- Which coach, presented a team with lowest quality of performance ?
                        2-Which coach, Embaressed our country the most ?
                        3-which coach,was the most arrogant ?
                        4-which coach delivered the least ?
                        5-Which coach,Had lowest wining percentage ?
                        ............
                        These questions,are more foundemental, and the answer to them will clear the Air, and helps us in objectibity.....
                        and without any doubt, ALI DAEI, is the answer to all above questions.

                        just to indulge our friend here, I'll try to answer these:

                        1- ghotbi

                        2- I'd say the past 3-4 coaches pretty much did embarrass us at different stages (yes, branko's was the 3 shameful WC games). so instead I'd say the coach with LEAST embarrassment is GN

                        3- Daei

                        4- ghotbi

                        5- ghotbi


                        and I answered these quite UN-emotionally. so plz dont use my posts as an example of emotional views. I just happen to have a more ... umm ... colorful, flowery () and descriptive language . and I'm certainly as objective as any here.
                        for me, the WC games were a great source of embarrassment and I just cant get over the "missed opportunity" aspect of those games. perhaps others arent as embarrassed by those (imminently predictable) pitiful, pathetic displays as I was. to each his own.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Doctor DOOM View Post
                          just to indulge our friend here, I'll try to answer these:

                          1- ghotbi

                          2- I'd say the past 3-4 coaches pretty much did embarrass us at different stages (yes, branko's was the 3 shameful WC games). so instead I'd say the coach with LEAST embarrassment is GN

                          3- Daei

                          4- ghotbi

                          5- ghotbi


                          and I answered these quite UN-emotionally. so plz dont use my posts as an example of emotional views. I just happen to have a more ... umm ... colorful, flowery () and descriptive language . and I'm certainly as objective as any here.
                          for me, the WC games were a great source of embarrassment and I just cant get over the "missed opportunity" aspect of those games. perhaps others arent as embarrassed by those (imminently predictable) pitiful, pathetic displays as I was. to each his own.
                          God bless,Payman jaan....as I said it before,I admit I also speak Colorful ! Flowery !
                          And I can see how you see it .....
                          So, you think, Losing to Portugal and mexico in the WC,was most embarrassing than losing to the incomplete Saudi team in a pact AZADI estedium !.........
                          I see your opinion,but I respectfuly disagree.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Bahram Agha.

                            Obviously you don't understand , accept or respect what I am saying , and what I stated was out of the feeling of a normal fan of Iranian football who has spent a life time supporting and serving it and still remain PROUD of it.

                            I did not show any authority nor did I yield any power and If I am not mistaken , I am supposed to be one of your favorites Mods , but that support means nothing and you change at an instant , claiming a list of misdemeanors !!...... Are you sure I am in your favorite books ? God..... I hate to see what do you do the ones in your black list


                            Well..... I said what I need to say.



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                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by maij View Post
                              Bahram Agha.

                              Obviously you don't understand , accept or respect what I am saying , and what I stated was out of the feeling of a normal fan of Iranian football who has spent a life time supporting and serving it and still remain PROUD of it.

                              I did not show any authority nor did I yield any power and If I am not mistaken , I am supposed to be one of your favorites Mods , but that support means nothing and you change at an instant , claiming a list of misdemeanors !!...... Are you sure I am in your favorite books ? God..... I hate to see what do you do the ones in your black list


                              Well..... I said what I need to say.
                              Thanks for " saying what you needed to say " !!
                              And you are still one of my most faivorit MODS,along with yashar and faraz...
                              What am I supposed to do ?, say yes to what ever you say ?..even when you attack, with all force,and using 20 words to dircribe my " uncivilized ,immature,biasd,prejudice,personal vandetta " of what ? asking others " Who is the most arrogant coach " ???
                              You are far too intelegent ,not to notice your " Over reaction ",was I realy needed to be reminded of F + policies ?....and that is all still fine with me........you are like all of us ,a Human ....
                              I do believe, your contribution is secound to non on PFDC..and always appreciate your hard work ,intelegent and thoughtful input......
                              But, majid Jaan, even as a " Normal fan of Iranian football " I say to you.....Ali Daei is not GOD .........and our feelings would be better placed when our " people " are put first...........and to me, he has insulted our football as well as our people !
                              You too need to accept it or respect my opinion....and if that is not possible,
                              do not call it 20 different names.
                              We are both very different,but I believe I can tolerate ,and still appreciate you,... you how ever,do not need to appreciate me, just tolerate !
                              Last edited by zzgloo; 12-23-2009, 05:08 AM.

                              Comment

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