Karimi's return, the right thing or two steps back?

[Keano]

I truly applaud Qotbi for inviting Karimi and extremely ecstatic to see Karimi embracing the invitation, unlike what many of you may think, I believe Karimi is currently in one of his best shapes and overall performance quality (With the exception of AC 2004), for sure in this season if not the most, then undoubtedly one of the most consistent players of IPL, having displayed many solid performances one week after another, while scoring continuously for his team Estil Azin.

I would definitely play him behind the striker in the center, while giving him the green light to swing to the sides freely, contributing mainly to the offense.

As for Kia, as much as I dislike to say it, he is finished and his soccer is limited to club level only, inviting Hashemian to TM is also IMHO is a big no, as he has not been given much chance to play in his team, I much rather seeing the younger players given an opportunity to shine and impress in the offense, we have good prospects such as Ansarifard etc.

[Martin-Reza]

simply because I am against relying on old great players time and time again... we are gonna have future problem with that.... Haven't we learned form WC2006 and Daei issue?
of course Karimi will be a great addition, but that great addition today, will detroys us in 2014!!!!!
we must build new players, and hell, we have 4 yrs time to the next WC!!!!

But first of all he's only 31. Some talk as if we re-called a 36-year-old.

Secondly we currently are building a team for January 2011, Asian Cup in Qatar.

Then we still got about three and a half years to build a team until WC and at least 18 months to build it for final WCQ round.

And it's not like we have an old team, it's basically just Karimi so far who has to be replaced.

Finally, we also have to accept that sometimes players are irreplaceable. Just that you don't play an old player, you don't magically get a great young replacement for him. Sometimes there is noone to fill the empty spot and it's simply a waste not to use a good player as long as it would have been possible.

Yes good move by Ghotbi. He shows once again, that TM doors are open. Kia is absolutely finished, but Karimi and possibly Hashemian can still be useful for TM if he turns out satisfying performances for Bochum.

I don't think Kia is finished. He needs match praxis and once he has a few games in his legs he will be an option again. Especially when his successors are the likes of Mohammad

inviting Hashemian to TM is also IMHO is a big no, as he has not been given much chance to play in his team, I much rather seeing the younger players given an opportunity to shine and impress in the offense, we have good prospects such as Ansarifard etc.

Still Hashemian could be deadly as joker, coming on late in the games as additional target striker. And for sure physically he and Kia surely are head and shoulders above Karimi.

Also I am a bit surprised Karimi is so much praised for his scoring in IPL.

Out of 12 goals, 7 were penalties. No doubt, he won a lot of those himself and he assisted a lot of other goals too, plus scoring pks is not the easiest thing on earth.

But I am surprised that when Daei was topscorer in IPL everyone was mocking about Daei scoring mostly penalties, while it isn't an issue at all with Karimi now.

Overall I must say we already have a new generation playing, now spicing this pool of players with a few veterans as topping might be the perfect receipt for a good Asian Cup 2011 - if the veterans accept their "topping"-role and don't demand to be a "main ingredient" all the time.

[toofan]

This is no diamond midfield, this is a diamond midfield:

------------OM-----------
-----LCM--------RCM----
------------DM-----------

and you are proposing Madanchi, Gholamreza Rezaei and Shojaei for the CM positions?

With those players it is a 4-1-3-2, and never a diamond.

And yeah, but you complained why we are insisting on 2 DMs, so I was just mentioning we were only predicting in that case, not necessarily suggesting that ourselves here.

well we all kinda know what formation ghotbi would line up so thats different.
and yes im suggesting rezayi and madanchi in the RM and LM position in a
diamond, thats my opinion.

but what i expect from ghotbi is:


----------ansarifard-----------/or meydavoudi
-----------------shojae--------
-------------------------------
--------------karimi------------
madanchi------------------khatatbari
-------------------------------
-------------------------------
-------------neko-------------
-------------------------------
hajsafi---hosseini--aghili----heydari
--------------------------------
------------rahmati--------------


unless he tries new players as we have already qualified or unless
also he tries the boring 2 DM's again which i hate to see.

ps i dont like khalatbari on the wings.i prefare him behind the striker in
shojaes place.

[toofan]

one more thing.remmember karimi came back to play againts s.korea recently
in the WCQ?

he played absolutley weak.i hope he copes with the pressure of comming
back to tm and his body can also cope aswell.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

But first of all he's only 31. Some talk as if we re-called a 36-year-old.

Secondly we currently are building a team for January 2011, Asian Cup in Qatar.

Then we still got about three and a half years to build a team until WC and at least 18 months to build it for final WCQ round.

And it's not like we have an old team, it's basically just Karimi so far who has to be replaced.

Finally, we also have to accept that sometimes players are irreplaceable. Just that you don't play an old player, you don't magically get a great young replacement for him. Sometimes there is noone to fill the empty spot and it's simply a waste not to use a good player as long as it would have been possible.
.

I still don't agree with it. Gerd Mueller was irreplacable for West Germany, so was Pele for Brazil, and so was Platini for France BUT they all retired in time, and new players like Rummenigge for West Germany etc etc were born...

You see in your own line-up you suggested earlier, by putting Karimi in, you have to let either Khalatbari or Madanchi, God forbid Shojaee etc to sacrify.... players that can be valuable assets in WC2014, but as a result of would loose a competition experience such as AC2011...

Its a matter of princips to me first and foremost....!

[Martin-Reza]

well we all kinda know what formation ghotbi would line up so thats different.
and yes im suggesting rezayi and madanchi in the RM and LM position in a
diamond, thats my opinion.

but what i expect from ghotbi is:


----------ansarifard-----------/or meydavoudi
-----------------shojae--------
-------------------------------
--------------karimi------------
madanchi------------------khatatbari
-------------------------------
-------------------------------
-------------neko-------------
-------------------------------
hajsafi---hosseini--aghili----heydari
--------------------------------
------------rahmati--------------

If you think there is an RM and an LM in a diamond, you have not understood the purpose of this formation. If you have one DM and then two wingers/side midfielders and an offensive midfielder plus two strikers, this is a 4-1-3-2, an ultra offensive formation not used by anyone except in emergeny situation. Or do you know any team playing this? There is none, because it's suicide normally.

[Martin-Reza]

I still don't agree with it. Gerd Mueller was irreplacable for West Germany, so was Pele for Brazil, and so was Platini for France BUT they all retired in time, and new players like Rummenigge for West Germany etc etc were born...
You see in your own line-up you suggested earlier, by putting Karimi in, you have to let either Khalatbari or Madanchi, God forbid Shojaee etc to sacrify.... players that can be valuable assets in WC2014, but as a result of would loose a competition experience such as AC2011...
Its a matter of princips to me first and foremost....!

[Adesor Vafaseya]

You as an economist should value to principal of competition more. It guarantees you the best will emerge as well as it will help all involved entities will optimize their output.

If that is the intention of Ghotbi... then I respect him truly!


but coming back to the point I disagree with you:
Karimi is irreplacable YES I do not deny that... BUT the future of TM is also irreplacable to me! Meaning EVEN if we sacrify the AC title by not letting Karimi play but by building a remarkable team for future, I would rather sacrify it...

In case of Gerd Mueller.... well he was irreplacable! And any coach would have want him to play few years more than he was willing to.

anyway, may fav midfield WAS this:


--Madanchi----Shojaee-----Khalatbari--
------Teymoorian---Nekoonam------

one of the ladds will be benched now... so lets hope your competition theory comes true....

again, if Ghotbi's intention is as you said to creat healthy competition to enhance performance, more power to him!


BTW: So I guess we have a new TM captain then....!

[persianallstars]

BTW: So I guess we have a new TM captain then....!

that's another irritating fact: how is it possible to change the TM captain every time another joker comes in.... I can't figure that out...

[Martin-Reza]

The captaincy indeed is an interesting issue. I think Nekounam should remain captain, he is a real leader. You don't always have to choose the oldest player. But I'm afraid Ghotbi won't dare to upset Karimi the slightest bit and therefore make him captain.

[persian-eagle-13]

IMO it is a step back, cause we already know what karimi can bring to the game, let others play so we can give them enough playing time and opportunity so when WC 2014 comes around they are experience enough, at that time if we need to and karimi is healthy enough then we can choice between his replacement and karimi for the final selection!!!

[Keano]

I am almost positive that Karimi's call up to TM was pre-arranged and confirmed with him prior to announcing TM list. This IMO was harmonized between the 2 parties, nevertheless a great addition to TM and I am certain that Karimi once again will impress!

As for Hashemian and MK I am gonna have to agree with you that they certainly are in better physical condition than Karimi for sure, considering the league they've trained with, but I don't see them coming back though!

[toofan]

If you think there is an RM and an LM in a diamond, you have not understood the purpose of this formation. If you have one DM and then two wingers/side midfielders and an offensive midfielder plus two strikers, this is a 4-1-3-2, an ultra offensive formation not used by anyone except in emergeny situation. Or do you know any team playing this? There is none, because it's suicide normally.

of the top of my head:
1.chelsea,
2.brazil
3.i think maybe inter

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog...onathan-wilson


and u should choose a formation to suit your players (check adesor's sig)
not the other way around.

[Martin-Reza]

Chelsea usually play with Mikel, Ballack and Lampard, a rather packed centrepark and surely not with only one central defensive player and two wingers.

Today they played a 4-3-3 btw. A system very similar to the diamond, in which you simply replace the OM by a wing forward. So they had one DM (Mikel) and two CMs (Ballack and Lampard).

Brazil is usually playing with two central defensive midfielders these days, Gilberto Silva and Felipe Melo. If one of the two is unavailable, Wolfsburg DM Josue comes in.

None of these teams plays the lineup you refer to as diamond.

I don't know the exact lineup Inter usually uses, but with defensive play Guru Mourinho I can't imagine he would play with only one DM and no additional CM, but 2 wingers and an OM instead.

In Champions League they played with

---------------------Sneijder----------------------
--------Motta--------------------Stankovic-------
--------------------Cambiasso--------------------

Now the tricky part is to understand that Motta and Stankovic are no side midfielders in that system. They both can play in a DM/CM position too, that is why they can play as CMs in a diamond. But Gholamreza Rezaei is a completely different player. That's almost like trying to put Messi or Higuain in such a spot.

The whole issue in midfield is that one DM alone can't cover up the crucial space in front of ther centrehalves. That is why at least a second player always has to help out there in defense. Which means, depending on the game situation, either the RCM or the LCM of the diamond has to fall back to DM to support him. So you need to put players there who can also play DM, which is the case with eg. Motta but not with Khalatbari.

Another version would be to have wingers but to have a second DM/CM who drops back when the opposition is in possession to be the second DM. But that is a much deeper role than an OM in a diamond, which is not referred to as an attacking midfield position then of course. Then you have the flat 4-4-2 basically, which contains no OM position.

Now all those systems float into each other. A 4-4-2 flat with a second striker is very similar to a 4-2-3-1. But there always are at least 2 central defensive midfielders available, either there are 2 of them anyway (4-4-2 flat, 4-2-3-1 for example), or there are 2 additional CMs instead of the second DM who together cover up the loss of the second DM (4-3-3, 4-4-2 diamond for example).

[toofan]

lol...i dont see why i need to go on with this but

actually come to think of it madanchi and rezayi do need more space to run
as their main advantage is their speed and outpacing players, so yea maybe
not with those players, so we go with what ever you say amigo

but lets just say we shouldnt say no one uses this formation and it wont work
as we have not tried it, anyways its just opinions anyways.