Foreign or national coach ?!

[maij]

^^^^^^

Arguably one the most celebrated Japanese footballer of the modern time with a hero status , humbly accepts that he is not good enough and accepts the National coach's decision to bench him.

Imagine if it was an Iranian player ? What would have been his reaction if the coach benched him or did not select him for the squad ?

[xoraster]

Give me a real life example of the Soccer universities. All my life , I have never heard of such thing as Soccer University Degree , I am not saying it does not exist. But since you know about it , then let us know.




I don't think I have said anything like that, but regardless....

Football is performing art. Singers , Artists , footballers , athletes need basic training , but talents CANNOT BE TAUGHT. You can have a thousand university in the world , it does not guarantee producing mass players like Messi or Christiano Ronaldo are produce coaches such as Wenger or Mourinho. If you do not understand this concept or believe in it , there is not much point in taking this discussion any further.

But just one point to disprove your argument about the foreign element. How did Iraq , a warn torn country which has not played a single match in its own soil for decades , managed to win the Asian Cup 2007 while the Might and the billionaires of Saudi Arabia, Korea, Japan and Australia failed to do that ?


Have you been to Africa ? Have you seen the way they organize football there ? it is so chaotic to a degree which makes Iran looks pretty civilized and good in organization....And yet the Africans produce world class players at a remarkable rate !




In one hand , you are telling me that the system in Iran is 100% corrupt ( which I think is a bit excessive and don't agree with you) , however , you expect foreign coaches to work in this corrupt system and deliver results !!!

How can that be ?

Isn't that a contradictory remark? or do you think that we must ONLY have special breed of foreign coaches who can gel well with a corrupt system to be brought to the country and expect them to deliver?





In your previous post , you did not want to compare Iran with Korea, but now you are comparing them. ..OK

In Korea and Japan , there is a great wealth from private enterprise that supports sport and football. Giant industries that rule the world are behind them as none of these clubs are supported by tax payers money.

In Saudi Arabia a large chunk of the huge wealth from oil goes into the coffers of kings and princes who in turn channel some of it towards football. It is excessive wealth and it is also corrupt. Same thing applies to most of the Persian Gulf countries.

You cannot expect the government in Iran which own 99% of the sport clubs to channel the much needed money for the country and the economy so that people like you and me sit in front of the TV to say Bah ..bah..bah whenever Karimi dribbles a few Arab players !!!!

The bigger question remains.....

Why should Iran , under huge economical and political isolation , spend million on foreign coaches?

People do not live and die for football....there are other priorities in life ......

In regards to coaching and universities, well, you have the for one.

Check it out.

That amongst others explains why a small country like Sweden keeps producing good coaches and players.

With all due respect, did you thought that coaches in Sweden get thir jobbs because they know this guy or that guy?
Nothing personal, but if you dont even know the amount of science and hard work it takes for someone to graduate from the Swedish, Argentinian, Portuguese, Brazilian, Italians FA's with a coaching degree, then you should try to gather some information. Then you understand the difference in knowledge that these coaches have.

Its not like Iran where MK can call his buddy Mr President and get the TM jobb or a top clubb jobb in a second.

In reagrds to your other pints, I have no answer, your arguements are all over the place. You have decided, like Ahmadenejad and Aliabadi that no foreign coaches should work in Iran and thats it.

Like I said, your arguement is too flawed and its based on emotions.

What are you saying: We never get a clear answer
Are you saying that
A:we should not waste money on foreign coaches? And how does that relate to the high salaries of uneducated domestic coaches such as Mazloomi, Ahmadzadeh, Karimi, Kazemi Ziaei etc?
B. Are you saying that foreign coaches are not good enough?
C. Are you saying that Iranian coaches are as good as other coaches around the world and that Iranian football does not need coaches, ideas and influences around the world?
D. Are you saying that because Japan and Korea had good WC with domestic coaches that we should try that rout to (although it seems that doemstic coaches cannot even guide us to WC for us to find out)

But at least, I pointed out the fact that many countries have introduced university courses, Japan, Korea, Sweden, Brazil and many more.

Anyway for now, Iranian football is as I pointed out in the hands of Iranian coaches, from every youth level to 99% of all professional and semi professinal clubs.

So people who support Iranian coaches should atleast be pleased, its not that Iranian football is overcrowded with foreign coaches.

And I guess, the results speak for themsleves.

[maij]

What are you saying: We never get a clear answer
Are you saying that
A.

I am saying , you are wasting my precious time.

[persianallstars]

Imagine if it was an Iranian player ? What would have been his reaction if the coach benched him or did not select him for the squad ?

he would have run to the media! Criticizing the coach, criticizing training sessions, criticizing everything and of course giving an advice to the coach for the upcoming match...

[xoraster]

I am saying , you are wasting my precious time.

Fair enough,


Shame I could not get a response but I guess there is none.

At least, I thought you a thing or two about international football. Coaching classes etc.

Maybe one day, you can teach us something as well, besides advertising for Mayeli Kohan, Ahmadzadeh and company.

My pleasure.

[maij]

Fair enough,


Shame I could not get a response but I guess there is none.

Au contraire , I have ample response but I seriously can’t be bothered providing it for someone who lacks respect and does not value others , specially the type who imagines that he knows much better than the guy next to him , without even knowing who he is.

At least, I thought you a thing or two about international football. Coaching classes etc.

I guess you missed the word "Know" somewhere. If that is what you mean , then yes I do know a few things about it , but NOT to the degree that makes me an expert. I have always knew and appreciated my limitation , unlike many out here who are experts in all footballing affairs!

Maybe one day, you can teach us something as well, besides advertising for Mayeli Kohan, Ahmadzadeh and company.

My pleasure.

As a matter of fact , I am a professional instructor , facilitator and teacher and my major is "Human Factors and Limitations" . If you are looking for football education , then you are looking at the wrong person..... I only give personal opinion in football and discuss issues as a fan. I do not claim professional knowledge.

As for Advertising for Mayelikohan , (FYI : a character whom I never liked) If I do that , I do it because he is a Persian and Iranian coach. For your Information this board is called "Persian Football" , and our mission is to support and promote Iranian players and coaches. I don't know .....perhaps you missed this fact and thought that we have to promote European or Swedish football . Maybe you mistaken PFDC with this site or maybe this one.

[maij]

he would have run to the media! Criticizing the coach, criticizing training sessions, criticizing everything and of course giving an advice to the coach for the upcoming match...

Yep...that is exactly what he would do ...he will add some spice by saying "I will reveal it all soon !!!"

Reveal what ....a CIA plot ???

[xoraster]

Au contraire , I have ample response but I seriously can’t be bothered providing it for someone who lacks respect and does not value others , specially the type who imagines that he knows much better than the guy next to him , without even knowing who he is.



I guess you missed the word "Know" somewhere. If that is what you mean , then yes I do know a few things about it , but NOT to the degree that makes me an expert. I have always knew and appreciated my limitation , unlike many out here who are experts in all footballing affairs!




As a matter of fact , I am a professional instructor , facilitator and teacher and my major is "Human Factors and Limitations" . If you are looking for football education , then you are looking at the wrong person..... I only give personal opinion in football and discuss issues as a fan. I do not claim professional knowledge.

As for Advertising for Mayelikohan , (FYI : a character whom I never liked) If I do that , I do it because he is a Persian and Iranian coach. For your Information this board is called "Persian Football" , and our mission is to support and promote Iranian players and coaches. I don't know .....perhaps you missed this fact and thought that we have to promote European or Swedish football . Maybe you mistaken PFDC with this site or maybe this one.

Whats the point to open a thread about domestic and foreign coaches?

First person who comes along with some fact about foreign coaches and other system is told to go to another site because this is persian football?

Does anyone else se any logic in this?

Also, as a moderator, this is very disrespecful and frankly just weak. A weak way of argueing and promoting your own cause.

If you cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
If cant cant handle a mature and passionate discussion (with facts as the basis of the arguement and no personal insults) then dont open any threads.

[maij]

Whats the point to open a thread about domestic and foreign coaches?

First person who comes along with some fact about foreign coaches and other system is told to go to another site because this is persian football?

Does anyone else se any logic in this?

Also, as a moderator, this is very disrespecful and frankly just weak. A weak way of argueing and promoting your own cause.

If you cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
If cant cant handle a mature and passionate discussion (with facts as the basis of the arguement and no personal insults) then dont open any threads.

Don waste anymore of my time. I have already given you more than you deserve.

[xoraster]

Don waste anymore of my time. I have already given you more than you deserve.

Go and learn a thing or two about other FA's, institutions, coaching classes and then open a thread.

Its always good to learn a thing or two before having an opinion.
Opening a thread is one thing, maintaining an informed dialogue is something else.

Now go and waste your "precious" time on something else.

[Doctor DOOM]

to take this away from becoming more personal, ...
lets be honst with ourselves and aside from club loyalties or inner desires or ..., and just cold, hard facts; of all the vatani coaches we've seen so far, how many of them would be fit to compete with teams like korea, japan, australia, ... etc ?

at the moment, even our most decorated coach, GN is suspect! and you cant firmly claim he will prevail.
- daei proved he wasnt ready either and he may not be for another few years.
- ghotbi is even worse than these two.
- Dr. Z? hasnt been exactly on fire with his series of club appointments.
- mazloomi hasnt proven himself internationally
- MK ,although he'd have been fine for the 3 remaining games where we needed attacking and forward-looking football, as a long term prospect is not suitable as his tactics are rather limited and monotonous.

the only name that comes to mind is Jalali, who did very well with foolad 2 seasons back, elevating the team with no stars or big names to 6th or 7th and then this season, saving them from relegation (no thanks to luka) to the 10th position (in second half of the season, foolad was the 2nd best team after sepahan in gathering points)

but he doesnt get high profile club jobs to prove himself (the one time he had such a club, he made them champs though. Pass), so we dont know how he'd behave with a bunch of prima-donnas and stars.

so I think it is safe to say at the moment we just dont have quality vatani coaches who could extract the maximum potential from our lads.
so why are we arguing for or against someone who doesnt yet exist?

[zzgloo]

All coaches in IRAN are under qualified !

They lack elemantary knowledge to improve players abilities.....

No player in IRAN has improved its playing abilities since its youth....they all play with same skills as what they came to league with.....there has been far too many waisted talents,and they are all the fault of domestic coaches .

We should wait for likes of mahdavikia, and hashemian to start a new generation of coaches in IRAN.









.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

depends at which level
Club level, Foreign coaches.
NT level, Iranian coaches.

The job of the two are different. At NT level the coach doesnt have to teach anything to players nor can he, they should have learned everything at club level.
The NT coach selects the best team he can and has to put them in a harmony with a suitable team strategy. This task can be best fullfilled with a domestic coach.

If we would have the right fundamentals in our players developments, QN would have won the AC2007 and Ali Daei would have qualified to WC2010.

[faraz]

I think the decision is far too simple - Iran does not have the privelege of choosing from a vast number of experienced and tactically sound managers or coaches.

We must look elsewhere, and we must pay a pretty penny for it.

[maij]