Ghotbi earns more money than 13 WC coaches

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Amoo jan....khoob dari hashiye miri

Forget all that and give me the answer..... If you do not want to , then it is fine , as well. We will end it at that.

lol... OK Janam...
The Psychology part that ZZGLOO wrote... I dont say he uses better psychology to achieve better results.... As ZZGLOO wrote he uses additionally better psycholgy.

maybe I misinterpret what he says.... I was interpreting it as it to Team Atmosphere, not results.


PS: Bebin chi giri oftaadim, khastim ZZGLOO quote konim oftadim to badbaakhti lol
Maij, jan.... I aprreciate your analysis a lot... the only thing is I am still hesitating to add Ghotbi to the Adesorian Bashers List yet.... I wanna wait for AC first and then see...

[maij]

lol... OK Janam...
The Psychology part that ZZGLOO wrote... I dont say he uses better psychology to achieve better results.... As ZZGLOO wrote he uses additionally better psycholgy.

maybe I misinterpret what he says.... I was interpreting it as it to Team Atmosphere, not results.


PS: Bebin chi giri oftaadim, khastim ZZGLOO quote konim oftadim to badbaakhti lol
Maij, jan.... I aprreciate your analysis a lot... the only thing is I am still hesitating to add Ghotbi to the Adesorian Bashers List yet.... I wanna wait for AC first and then see...

LOl..... Ghorbone Dahant.... I don't know if there are many more honest people like you around , Amoo jan, but you are one of a kind.

You deserve a rep for that...

[Doctor DOOM]

I dont say he uses better psychology to achieve better results....



As ZZGLOO wrote he uses additionally better psycholgy.


...

..."better psychology" to achieve ....what then? "a favorable opinion among literary critics"? "a better residence"? I can go on , but dont see much point in it.

besides, what "better psychology"? you mean THAT "better psychology" where we saw players leave the camp for all sorts of excuses? many of whom were quite influential ones that could have helped us in the qualifiers?
was it this vague "better psychology" in play when Maziyar zareh, rezaei, ashjari, kazemian, ... and a whole host of players left his camps at different points?

or perhaps it is this "better psychology" that even those who still are included in his camp, like Kaabi, still talk negatively about him and his abilities?

as majid said, we are yet to see a proof of this "better psychology" in action.

******************

as for the results, well, aside from getting thoroughly embarrassed by the likes of bahrain (never lost to bahrain or any arab nation, by such margins in our history) or losing 4-5 games (official or not) in a row (never ever experienced before) or the dubious distinction of losing to utter minnows like jordan (achieved only be select few like that other moron, branko) .... yes, aside from all these, yup .. he's done excellently!!!!!!!!
and I'm the freaking king of england.


********************

I shd be the last person to criticize him as he's finally included one of my favorites, mobaali in the team. but what over-rides everything is the TM and TM alone.
not ghotbi using one's favorites player or using one's favorite formation, or ghotbi hailing from the US/abroad, or how he speaks or ... .
yes, for each of these excuses, there ARE members, who've based their support of him.

but none of these shd matter if at the end, TM doesnt progress.
and we can twist and turn all we want. we just wont escape the fact that TM has NOT progressed under ghotbi. (not saying it was becoming like germany under others. but the whole point of selecting coaches is to further the quality of the team, not competing with former coaches)

[zzgloo]

well, the red parts are where we differ greatly, bahram jan.
sorry

No reason to be sorry payman jaan.....it is not the first time we do not agree, and it will not be the last...and so far we have been half/half ...as who had been right !...... ..,and I still Love you !

[zzgloo]

unfortunately, you guys have no stats or even quality games/performances to prove this "claim"

pretty much like if I claim abumoslem is superior to arsenal. sang moft o gonjeeshk moft

Payman Jaan.....
I provided more reasonings in support of this specific comparison, than you did !!!, I was going to let it go as agreement to disagreement...but, please, as objective as I know you are, please remember that,
you did not provide anything, as why you believe , contrary to I ) that Ghalenoee, or Ebrahimzadeh, etc, etc, understand The Followings better :

Player psycology
Today's Football
International preparation
.................................................. ...............
My reasoning were and are
that Ghotbi speaks and studies English and active on Internet.
He is more educated.
He appears !! to know better about psycology.
He has had classes in coaching.
He has been indorsed by some foriegn coaches . ( They do not do such thing for money or friendship )
He also has experince with Top coaches.
he has experince in two world cups.and two Asian cups,and league championship.
.................................................. ....................

What is your reasonings,what was it that you provided ?

[Doctor DOOM]

Payman Jaan.....
I provided more reasonings in support of this specific comparison, than you did !!!, I was going to let it go as agreement to disagreement...but, please, as objective as I know you are, please remember that,
you did not provide anything, as why you believe , contrary to I ) that Ghalenoee, or Ebrahimzadeh, etc, etc, understand The Followings better :
Player psycology
Today's Football
International preparation
.................................................. ...............
My reasoning were and are
that Ghotbi speaks and studies English and active on Internet.
He is more educated.
He appears !! to know better about psycology.
He has had classes in coaching.
He has been indorsed by some foriegn coaches . ( They do not do such thing for money or friendship )
He also has experince with Top coaches.
he has experince in two world cups.and two Asian cups,and league championship.
.................................................. ....................
What is your reasonings,what was it that you provided ?

akhe bahram jan, some of these "reasons" wont hold in court.

- I am active on the net. hell we have 10 yr olds more active on the net. that doesnt mean a person is a better coach.
- neither does his form of speech
- unfortunately, more education does not mean better coaching abilities. we have a gazillion examples to the contrary!
- he "appears" to ... ?? surely you cant count that as a reason
- so have plenty of others who've had "classes" in coaching
- endorsements? another slippery slope that has plenty of loop-holes to make swiss cheese green with envy
- we have "experience" and we have "experience". some even may go so far to say actually PLAYING football under top coaches teaches you 100 times more than merely clocking the amount of time team X uses its left wing

you see, if you step back and look at this from a neutral's point of view, ghotbi really doesnt have much going for him.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

..."better psychology" to achieve ....what then? "a favorable opinion among literary critics"? "a better residence"? I can go on , but dont see much point in it.

better psychology to achieve nothing,.... just to piss of Doctor Doom I guess...

[Adesor Vafaseya]

LOl..... Ghorbone Dahant.... I don't know if there are many more honest people like you around , Amoo jan, but you are one of a kind.

You deserve a rep for that...

yes...my trick to get a rep from you finally worked

I shall rep you back at first instance (in 24 hrs)

[Doctor DOOM]

better psychology to achieve nothing,.... just to piss of Doctor Doom I guess...

Goddamn, hell-n-fu*k, johnny ... mission accomplished

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Goddamn, hell-n-fu*k, johnny ... mission accomplished

YEEEEEEEEESSSS!

thank you afshin

[zzgloo]

Payman jaan,

The discussion , is not logical !
man ***** nare,to migi bedoosh !
I say I provided reasonings, you did not, : You say my reasonings are not acceptable in the court !
I say, what do you say, you say: It is obviouse.
I say,he has handdled hismself with better pscology compare to other Iranian coaches, : You say, Give me statistic.
-i say, he is more educated,better on internet, more multyculture,better international experince,more poletical,etc,etc..You say : He is not,and forget the reletive comparison.
I say, he is better than the Iranian competition, You say: he is not good !
You appear to be settled with your conviction,and so am I with mine.....
there will be no way we can come to a conclusion, as we are talking about an unscientific issue here...

we just have to be true to ourselevs and sence of fairness !

.................................................. .................................................. ...

To Majid aziz......

Ghotbi Does uses better psycology, compare to Domestic coaches :
he has invited the media to resturant, asked for friendship.
he takes picture,with Ghalenoee while in perspolise vs GH in Esteghlal,andgives him flowers...
he takes kabie to court,instead of bad mouthing him in media.
he calls kafashian a great IFF head.helping him the best.
he used better pomping up the pp players to win the championship.
he started , 70 million player team.
he speaks politly.
he handled himself, amirably in a hostle, unfamiliar,new inviroment.
he has not lost where it counts.
he is endorsed by unbasied top coaches.
he is "" more "" ,in tune, with what is today's football,...Ask Advecat if you like .
he has not been confrontational to any one, something self evident,and undeniable.

.................................................. ...........................................

we are talking in reletive comparison...nothing els....
as always, God Bless !

.

[Doctor DOOM]

Ghotbi Does uses better psycology, compare to Domestic coaches :

UNSUBSTANTIATED. IN FACT, I SAY EBRAHIMZADEH IS 10 TIMES SUPERIOR IN DEALING WITH PSYCHOLOGICAL MATTERS.
HELL, I'D SAY EVEN JALALI AND KORBEKANDI ARE FAR MORE SUPERIOR TO GHOTBI IN THIS.


he has invited the media to resturant, asked for friendship.

IN SOME CIRCLES IT IS CONSTRUED AS "KHAYE MAALI" OF THE MEDIA TO STOP BRINGING UP ISSUES AGAINST HIM

he takes picture,with Ghalenoee while in perspolise vs GH in Esteghlal,andgives him flowers...

???? CRITERIA FOR A NATIONAL TEAM MANAGER?

he takes kabie to court,instead of bad mouthing him in media.

..... WHICH IS COMMENDABLE IN WHAT WAY?
A PROPER NAT'L TEAM COACH WOULD HARDLY ANSWER THE PLAYER, LET ALONE TAKE HIM TO THE COURT!!!

he calls kafashian a great IFF head.helping him the best.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF "KHAYE MAALI" TO SOMEHOW KEEP HIS JOB, BY HOOK OR CROOK

he used better pomping up the pp players to win the championship.

THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THAT WAS DENIZLI'S TEAM THAT SUCCEEDED. OTHERWISE, WHY DID OUR EMPEROR FAIL SO MISERABLY THE NEXT SEASON THAT "HE" CHOSE THE PLAYERS AND TACTICS AND .... ?

he started , 70 million player team.

???? NEED I COMMENT ON THIS?

he speaks politly.

AND THAT QUALIFIES HIM AS A NATIONAL TEAM COACH IN EXACTLY WHAT WAY?

he handled himself, amirably in a hostle, unfamiliar,new inviroment.

???? APART FROM DOING KHAYE MAALI OF MEDIA, IFF AND MANY OTHERS, HE TOOK PLAYERS TO COURT, HE LIED ABOUT KNOWING KOREAS LIKE THE BACK OF HIS HAND, HE ALIENATED MANY PLAYERS WHO LEFT HIS CAMP, .... ETC
EXACTLY WHAT'S ADMIRABLE IN ALL THAT?

he has not lost where it counts.

LOSING TO JORDAN IN ASIA CUP QUALIFIERS?
I'LL LEAVE THE SEVERE DAMAGE TO OUR PRIDE DUE TO LOSING TO BAHRAIN BY 4 GOALS AS IT SEEMS THAT'S NOT A COMMONLY SHARED TRAGEDY

he is endorsed by unbasied top coaches.

WORDS ARE CHEAP. ESPECIALLY IF I GO BEGGING MY FORMER BOSSES TO MERELY LEAVE A GOOD WORD FOR ME. MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

he is "" more "" ,in tune, with what is today's football,...Ask Advecat if you like .

SEE ABOVE

he has not been confrontational to any one, something self evident,and undeniable.

????? YOU, YOURSELF SAID HE TOOK KAABI TO COURT. KIND OF CONTRADICTORY, NO?
.

Bahramn jan, we can make up all that we want.
I can say MK uses top quality tactics and is a monumental factor in psychological issues, and he speaks better than GN and is more gentle and kind and caring, and truly cares about Iranian football, and has reached the world cup's semi-finals with Iran's nat'l team and has had some of the greatest victories of post-revolution TM and .... .
and certainly hasnt lost 5 in a row.
and a lot of other things.
but there'll be someone who'll have a different opinion.

what doesnt change is :
ghotbi failed to qualify for the WC. he failed to beat the team we are used to beating.
his team plays poor quality games
he alienated players and hasnt been able to get the best out of his players.
he failed to use his players correctly (example; constantly subbing the dynamic khalatbari in favor of the stuttering shojaei)
and there is no sign of improvement in TM that will face some of its toughest challenges in asia cup.

and before taking over denizli's pp, he didnt have anything worth mentioning on his resume. his real, true test was the next season , in which he failed and got booted out of pp.
he was so bad even second division uae teams didnt want to hire him and he was lounging around in uae for months before his agents pushed for him.
now, suddenly we have to accept he can lead a national team?

[maij]

To Majid aziz......

Ghotbi Does uses better psycology, compare to Domestic coaches :
he has invited the media to resturant, asked for friendship.
he takes picture,with Ghalenoee while in perspolise vs GH in Esteghlal,andgives him flowers...
he takes kabie to court,instead of bad mouthing him in media.
he calls kafashian a great IFF head.helping him the best.
he used better pomping up the pp players to win the championship.
he started , 70 million player team.
he speaks politly.
he handled himself, amirably in a hostle, unfamiliar,new inviroment.
he has not lost where it counts.
he is endorsed by unbasied top coaches.
he is "" more "" ,in tune, with what is today's football,...Ask Advecat if you like .
he has not been confrontational to any one, something self evident,and undeniable.

.................................................. ...........................................

we are talking in reletive comparison...nothing els....
as always, God Bless !

.

Agha Bahram....

I think Peyman has answered all your points and mine would be very much similar , or even identical , so for brevity I shall avoid repeating it all.

The only subject that I have very strong concern with is the repeated use of the word psychology to highlight Ghotbi;s alleged advantage.

First of all , I do not agree at all that Ghotbi has any advantage at all on any major national coach , I particularly question his psychological skills.

No disrespect , Bahram Jan, but you are using a very sophisticated science that very few have excelled in and remains a challenge for the human kind , in such an ease as if you are dealing with a trivial issue.


Football is not rocket science , as you rightly said but psychology is more difficult than rocket science , Agha joon. I don't think you can simply judge on such a matter by simply reading a few reports on the internet.

The only indication of psychology used by Ghotbi is a failure. Many players have deserted his squad ( with some bad-mouthing him) as already mentioned in details by Peyman , so how can he be using psychology in a effective or efficient manner ???!!


Finally , you are glorifying everything that Ghotbi does and claiming it to his advantage !!

Is there a precedent for a National Team coach anywhere in the world to take journalist to a free lunch in a restaurant and call it a coup or a triumph? I mean , there are sets of protocols , understanding and etiquette that are globally agreed upon when it comes to character judgment or professional reference, and the whole of what you mentioned about his acts does not nudge his points one bit. We simply can't create our own scenarios for our convenience and expect people to respect them.

I can claim: Mayeli-Kohan is the best coach in the world, because he reads a lot of books , a true Moslem who believes in the revolution and the youth........and he never shaves !

[zzgloo]

Bahramn jan, we can make up all that we want.
I can say MK uses top quality tactics and is a monumental factor in psychological issues, and he speaks better than GN and is more gentle and kind and caring, and truly cares about Iranian football, and has reached the world cup's semi-finals with Iran's nat'l team and has had some of the greatest victories of post-revolution TM and .... .
and certainly hasnt lost 5 in a row.
and a lot of other things.
but there'll be someone who'll have a different opinion.

what doesnt change is :
ghotbi failed to qualify for the WC. he failed to beat the team we are used to beating.
his team plays poor quality games
he alienated players and hasnt been able to get the best out of his players.
he failed to use his players correctly (example; constantly subbing the dynamic khalatbari in favor of the stuttering shojaei)
and there is no sign of improvement in TM that will face some of its toughest challenges in asia cup.

and before taking over denizli's pp, he didnt have anything worth mentioning on his resume. his real, true test was the next season , in which he failed and got booted out of pp.
he was so bad even second division uae teams didnt want to hire him and he was lounging around in uae for months before his agents pushed for him.
now, suddenly we have to accept he can lead a national team?

Payman jaan....
I know , you don't mean it.....
But,would you please, don't ever again use read ink,to respond to my comments........I found it offensive !,
please choose any other colore ,but Red !, if you can ,please !

Khayeh Mali ?.......?....
talks are cheap ?......
Denizeli team ?.......

I would like to end this particular discussion with you.......you are way too settled with your point...and as you said, one can promote any one he likes !even mayeli Kohan............

God bless you, and I still love you !
I will catch you on the rebound of some other issues !

[zzgloo]

Agha Bahram....

I think Peyman has answered all your points and mine would be very much similar , or even identical , so for brevity I shall avoid repeating it all.

The only subject that I have very strong concern with is the repeated use of the word psychology to highlight Ghotbi;s alleged advantage.

First of all , I do not agree at all that Ghotbi has any advantage at all on any major national coach , I particularly question his psychological skills.

No disrespect , Bahram Jan, but you are using a very sophisticated science that very few have excelled in and remains a challenge for the human kind , in such an ease as if you are dealing with a trivial issue.


Football is not rocket science , as you rightly said but psychology is more difficult than rocket science , Agha joon. I don't think you can simply judge on such a matter by simply reading a few reports on the internet.

The only indication of psychology used by Ghotbi is a failure. Many players have deserted his squad ( with some bad-mouthing him) as already mentioned in details by Peyman , so how can he be using psychology in a effective or efficient manner ???!!


Finally , you are glorifying everything that Ghotbi does and claiming it to his advantage !!

Is there a precedent for a National Team coach anywhere in the world to take journalist to a free lunch in a restaurant and call it a coup or a triumph? I mean , there are sets of protocols , understanding and etiquette that are globally agreed upon when it comes to character judgment or professional reference, and the whole of what you mentioned about his acts does not nudge his points one bit. We simply can't create our own scenarios for our convenience and expect people to respect them.

I can claim: Mayeli-Kohan is the best coach in the world, because he reads a lot of books , a true Moslem who believes in the revolution and the youth........and he never shaves !

Majid Jaan......thanks for your respond.......
It is easier to answer to your post than payman's....as his was, one sided,red ink to everything without reasons,just sounded a very angry !and ..and discribed the situaation with his khayeh mali,and chance,and some oneelses team,and etc,etc...........

majid jaan.....the reason I explained about his psycology, was because it was the only point you and payman zeroed in on your previouse posts,so I had to explain...as matter of fact, I think his better points, compare to Domestic coaches are his knowledge of Football, is small as it may be, yet better than others in Iran......
I noticed,you said you are a student of psycology yourself.....and I must say, I also know a thing or two myself......

1- Psycology :
we are talking this issue only in the capacity of social psycology,and understanding of a particular cultural psycology,and its manipulation to one's interests !
In Iran, for us out of country people, is very hard to get our ways....with " JAVE HAKEM against foreiners,and constant criticisms against a person who has very few freinds, one realy needs to be artistic on his psycological manipulative skills !, which I think Ghotbi has done a respectable job....

2- Coaching skills:
We all know, he is defently not as good as he has advertized himself to be !!( although that is another credit to him, yet,....he has not damaged TM as his previouse predecesor did.., nor has he been given enough chance that is normal for such JOB.....his coaching degree( which you said it was fake),his experince in two world cups, two asian cups, and one league championship,his collage degree,his internet savy,his psycological skills,etc,etc.......should count for something......specialy in a so weak a competition.


majid jaan...please remind yourself, to whom are we comparing Ghotbi with !, bounch of, very little academic knowledge,very little coaching schools, very little international skills,....coaches who have mastered beating Rah-ahan and Booshehr,and aboomoslems...yet, constantly goofing off in international competitions...coaches, who are in a musical chair, game, and keep changing places,among few of thier competitions, every year, and call it competetive coaching !!!!...........
They have failed to train players, they have waisted talents ,they have failed to present up to date footbal,...yet they have succeeded in mastering Bull shits !