Iran - South Korea game discussion

[Keano]

Dear Maij, your assessment of this match was flawless and spot on, I enjoyed reading through your unbiased and fair brief analysis of this match against Korea.

At the end what really counts is the result, a win is a win, no matter what the circumstances may be. *TM played a delightful and entertaining football during AC 2004, but then what? ** we got knocked out of the final match in the semi finals, this partly was due to our own negligence (Sattar Zare red carded for childish behavior)

We've had 4 consecutive sweet international friendly wins against somewhat decent teams and away: 2-3 against Bosnia, 1-3 against Armenia, 0-2 against China, 0-1 against S. Korea, if these were all luck factor, then let's wait and see how long it's last, but please let's enjoy it and support our team while it lasts.


* Lesson number 1: No matter how beautiful or ugly your team plays, at the end what matters the most is to achieve good results and earn the 3 points (Although entertaining and fair-play football is always appreciated)

** Lesson number 2: you get punished for your crucial mistakes, regardless of the style of football your team displays!

[toofan]

High resolution ...from KFATV the way reported by Korean

omg i have been looking for this

I love u man .

[Babak agha]

Dear dvader, I don't think you fully get what I'm saying. Offcource we should be taking a win instaed of being gifted with one, but at this point we are in no place to think that we can take a win against Korea or any other decent team. For now being gifted with one is better than try to take a win and loose badly. A win and the perfect score so far should definitely help our boys improve their game.

[dvader6]

^ dear babak, I think you thought I was focusing on this friendly.
No. My focus was on the main and important games in asia cup. and frankly, I dont think we can rely on such gigantic mistakes happening by our decent opponents beyond the first stage (which looks like to be either south korea or australia).

yes, we beat skorea at home 1-0 away. hooray.
I would have felt more confident if we had forced this win, which would show when we face them in asia cup, we have the capability to repeat this game.

but when we won through such a gigantic mistake (which is extremely rare from well organized teams like skorea), then I just dont feel confident about the asia cup game that makes our fortunes depend on another similar mistake only, instead of our own ability to get that win!




what I'm saying is if we get a win through the coach's reading of the game or tactics or rehearsed moves or ..., we can be pretty confident the coach can REPEAT this in official games also. extremely high possibility and percentage.
but what are the chances of such a mistake being repeated? extremely low possibility and percentage

[zzgloo]

There is no denying that Ghotbi and Team Melli has a perfect record in 2010 ( and let us all hope that it remains like that). How are these results achieved and whether they are satisfactory is quite an interesting debate.

Yes , perhaps Korean Football is more organized , more professionally run and managed , more tactically disciplined .....but what is the use if they do not win , especially against the so-called lower ranked teams (our own TM , for example) ?

For me , the right question I need to ask is from Back to front. At the end , we need the result and to achieve that there should be a certain line up , strategy and system of play. There is no doubt that Team Melli , apart from a few moments of individual brilliance here and there , plays an ugly kind of football. In fact it is quite archaic and that is typified by the "Route one" balls from the defenders to the forward lines !!!

But the bottom line is that I need a result .....and that is what Ghotbi wanted and achieved. I don't think it is fair for us to criticize him or his team for achieving the result..hell that is what every team in the world wants to achieve in each match...WIN...there is no Ugly win or a beautiful win category yet...it is all in our minds..a win is a win.


I will Kiss "Seyed's" forehead if he achieves such results in Doha , come January 2011 ...and I will leave the beautiful football for Spain ( which received a good lesson in football by Argentine )


The reality is....Team Melli is a reflection of Iran's football in general...It is NOT great to watch and has many flaws in it. The coach is NOT very experienced and has many shortcomings. He is conservative to say the least , highly nervous and quite emotional. He seems to feel the stress & pressure of the job. The constant threat of being booted out of the job is not an easy feeling to live and work with ...So...Lest not forget that we have just defeated Korea and lest not forget that apart from the last 15 minutes of the match , they hardly threatened our defense system ( with all its shortcomings). Let us remember the Played 6 Won 6



I think...it is time for Ghotbi to relax a wee bit...collect his thoughts...re-enforce , refuel and start breathing normally for a few weeks. The Job is not done by any means and the road is rough , but admittedly "Seyed" is not doing badly ...at all.

The man deserves some recognition IMHO.

Very Wise analysis Majid Jaan....

Ghotbi,how ever, should have shot him mouth,instead of giving advice to Korean football, and thier coach !!.....
I hope he does not relaxe and put motions on cruse control !

And on difference of styles, I must say, while Koreans seem to be more advansed,in organizational department, and fluidity of thier game......, yet, even if all were good with Iranian system, we probably still would have had a different football style........and our difference in style, is more than organizational skills, and may be Cultural as well .

[Babak agha]

Ofcourse in our next games we really should start to dominate the game and win with at least some good football. If we manage to do that then I think we will, step by step, get into a position where we actually could dominate Japan, Korea etc. With the WAFF games coming up, I think we're in the perfect condition in doing just that. Lets say we will win all our next matches with good football, people (and TM) by then will forget how we played against Korea, but will only remember the result and combine that to the good football that TM by then has played. That would mean that we even might be more confidenent in the victory than the Koreans.

I totally agree with you, that should we play like this again against a strong opponent, the chances of us winning would be small. I'm only saying that the future hasn't have to be as bad as you think, and yes even this game could have helped us to get where we want to be. It is up to Qotbi now, to prove he's capable of doing that. I don't think it's fair to already criticize him for things he hasn't done yet. Until now I think he's on the right track, let's wait for the next game and see if he's able to bring us a step closer to our goal, being able to win the AC.

[Martin-Reza]

A great Korean tactical analysis of the game: http://www.footkorean.net/match-anal...by-rugged-iran

Thanks to Pedram123 for the link.

[zzgloo]

Thanks martin jaan...and thanks to pedram 123....what an excellent analysis...and totaly objective !!!

here is the part that bothers me from the analysis :

......................................
{
Ghotbi’s tactics prevail

All in all, this was an excellent tactical win for Ghotbi and Iran. Tactical wins in friendlies in modern football are rare, but Ghotbi proved that a lot more can be given and earned in a match that could have easily been wasted.
}
......................................
It bothers me, not because it is true,it bothers me not to know what to make of it !!!
It is true,as analysor,says : " tactical wins in friendlies in modern football are rare "....and the usual objective is to gain experince and play different players.....but, the said tactic,was intended to win at all costs !....no gaining experice , no trying out new players, no beautiful football,.....only, to take advantage of a particular weakness of the opponant and designing the game plan solely based on the weakness.....,

the comments by analysor insinuates,that :
1- Iranian Football is not Modern.
2-Iranian Football was Reactive,and Korean's were proactive.

In another words.....this game was not an experince gaining game for players, but an experince gaining game for the coach !

PS, Does this mean , Ghotbi actualy knows Korea like palm of his hand ??!

.

[maij]

Just about a week back I said

What I liked:

What I did not like

• Distinct lack of creative midfielder in the mold of Navidkia or Jabbari and even Karimi.
  

sooooo...sweet.......at last Ghotbi proved that he knows the Koreans like the back of his hand

It is refreshing to see that Ghotbi is taking a cue ...

[St_Mark]

Korean perspective

Iran loss begging questions over player selection



Sep 15, 2010
Park Ji-sung cut a frustrated figure as he left the pitch at Sangam World Cup stadium on Tuesday night. The national team captain had been battered by an aggressive Iranian midfield and came away with little to show for his effort but for his bruises and the echoes of his complaints to an uninterested referee. Perhaps more disappointing to the Manchester United workhorse was the inefficacy of the Cho Kwang-RaeIranian side, displaying aggressive pressure and determination, exposed glaring deficiencies in almost all areas of the pitchIran,Iranterra incognita, Koo has responded in kind by putting consistent, commanding performances in midfield. Given his youth and abilities, it remains a bit bewildering why the Jeju lynchpin has not had the chance to assert himself for the senior team.
Given the issues exposed by

[dvader6]

^ looks like south korea is in a transition period and are building their team only.
so only a fool would think this (what we saw in korea ) is going to be the quality expected in the upcoming asia cup and a bigger fool to think we can beat them in this manner

[Keano]

I think after a long time, the Koreans once again are more than determent to go all in full force and conquer the AC once again and after a long time, which is great and makes the tournament even more exciting, hopefully Australia and Japan also will share the same attitude!

[Doctor DOOM]

cont'd from :
http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...01#post1679401

I dont see any real differences between what I said in the first page here, and what I said in the above thread.

we WERE GIFTED the goal. no matter when we look at it

Payman Jaan.........
Every body,including yourself, said opposite of what you are saying now............

??????



And here is everbody's admiration of the game by TM,including yours...just for the reminder :
http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...ad.php?t=89529
There was no Lucky Goal.....there was a superior planning of Ghotbi that Got us the win !

First half:

Our goal also is not the result of some highly masterful tactics, rather it is a true GIFT from the opponent for failing to pass stronger which fell to Pejman Nouri who had the presence of mind to attack the player. This only proved ghotbi is a very lucky coach … perhaps by becoming a “seyed” recently

[Doctor DOOM]

here is the copy of your post, # 7, in the South Korea vs IRAN thread :
Doctor DOOM :
.................................................. ......................................
from what I read here (still havent been able to watch the 2nd half) it seems we took control of the game. is that it?
.................................................. .....................................
And what was your opinion of the Korean article ?..you forgot to mention.
And what was your opinion of ever one els,on the game ?...you forgot that too.......
Did every one here, and the Korean Article mention the Ghobi's winning plan ...or, The Lucky Goal scored by TM ?

1- bahram jan, if you're basing your argument of my "admiration of ghotbi's masterful tactics" on what I said, then at least stick to the truth.
I have colored the sections that shd have been clear to everyone by that post I had not watched the game. it's right there.

I added the second half after watching it, to the original post.



2- the korean perspective was naturally based on their loss that was unexpected to them, and the writer obviously was upset and was discussing the korean angles of the game, their shortcomings and faults for 99% of the article.

it's obvious the writer is dissecting and pointing at the faults & mistakes of the koreans (something that if one of us writes about TM, ppl here will label him negative or biased or whatnot!!!)

I think your take on it was more norne out of what YOU WANTED to understand, rather than what they said.

besides, forgive me if I trust MY EYES more than ... well ... more than an article that really doesnt say much about ghotbi, but merely attacks the koreans.

[zzgloo]

1- bahram jan, if you're basing your argument of my "admiration of ghotbi's masterful tactics" on what I said, then at least stick to the truth.
I have colored the sections that shd have been clear to everyone by that post I had not watched the game. it's right there.

I added the second half after watching it, to the original post.



2- the korean perspective was naturally based on their loss that was unexpected to them, and the writer obviously was upset and was discussing the korean angles of the game, their shortcomings and faults for 99% of the article.

it's obvious the writer is dissecting and pointing at the faults & mistakes of the koreans (something that if one of us writes about TM, ppl here will label him negative or biased or whatnot!!!)

I think your take on it was more norne out of what YOU WANTED to understand, rather than what they said.

besides, forgive me if I trust MY EYES more than ... well ... more than an article that really doesnt say much about ghotbi, but merely attacks the koreans.

We ,together stablished That :
1- Every one thought TM controled the game.
2-The Koreans thought they were out coached.
3-It is only , Your eyes,that says otherwise.