I dont think Zandi should start in the WC

[Doctor DOOM]

hehehe .... I like ppl with sense of humor.
so maybe I wont kill you guys.


but seriously, while you were writting these posts, did any of you actually read what I wrote on zandi.

let me give u both a hint:

(1) when zandi is PLACED on the left, (2) and he leaves it empty, (3) there's no-one who covers the left side ( I wish mansoor jan would bring back his pictorial posts of a few months back to demonstrate this for you ppl.).

now, how playing karimi as left (or right ) mid, while the team DOES HAVE a central ( or left ) mid is supposed to be related to our zandi-TM case .... god only knows.

same with kaka case !

at least we shd try to be relevent in our posts !

to put it in even more simple words:

playing zandi on the left is like a magician.
now you see him, now you dont!........ ever .... till the end of the bloddy game !
meaning after this, the team ( now, pay attention here ) does not have any left midfielder , and our left side is open to one and all !!!! ( mansoor , koja'ee baba ? pas in aks-ha chi shodan? )

but , u 2 , are talking about "playing a player out of his natural position".( which is a totally different subject altogether. and mind you, in most cases, playing players out of their positions dont gain much for the team, despite the exceptions )

how is this related to a team that does have a left, right, and central and .... mid , is beyond me !

[Martin-Reza]

but seriously, while you were writting these posts, did any of you actually read what I wrote on zandi.

Probably not, and maybe not writing a whole book as reply would help changing that.

[Doctor DOOM]

Probably not, and maybe not writing a whole book as reply would help changing that.

lol.

you think that was tough?
try reading posts # 70 and 71 here :
http://persianfootball.com/forums/sh...t=25739&page=7

[yashar_fasihnia]

hehehe .... I like ppl with sense of humor.
so maybe I wont kill you guys.


but seriously, while you were writting these posts, did any of you actually read what I wrote on zandi.

let me give u both a hint:

(1) when zandi is PLACED on the left, (2) and he leaves it empty, (3) there's no-one who covers the left side ( I wish mansoor jan would bring back his pictorial posts of a few months back to demonstrate this for you ppl.).

now, how playing karimi as left (or right ) mid, while the team DOES HAVE a central ( or left ) mid is supposed to be related to our zandi-TM case .... god only knows.

same with kaka case !

at least we shd try to be relevent in our posts !

to put it in even more simple words:

playing zandi on the left is like a magician.
now you see him, now you dont!........ ever .... till the end of the bloddy game !
meaning after this, the team ( now, pay attention here ) does not have any left midfielder , and our left side is open to one and all !!!! ( mansoor , koja'ee baba ? pas in aks-ha chi shodan? )

but , u 2 , are talking about "playing a player out of his natural position".( which is a totally different subject altogether. and mind you, in most cases, playing players out of their positions dont gain much for the team, despite the exceptions )

how is this related to a team that does have a left, right, and central and .... mid , is beyond me !

my response was to this part of ur post where u generalized the matter!

it is absurd to absolve a midfielder placed anywhere ( in any shape or ... ) on the left from his PRIMARY duty , which is defending and attacking and generally connecting the backs to strikers ON. THE. LEFT. SIDE.

i have read mansour khan's znadi effect, daei-hashemian effect and i found it very informative and to an extent true, BUT, like i said, my counter example of karimi in bayern was in response to ur generalization! simlpe as that!

P.S. im glad u like my sense of humour, atleast theres something we have in common

[yashar_fasihnia]

lol.
you think that was tough?
try reading posts # 70 and 71 here :
http://persianfootball.com/forums/sh...t=25739&page=7

and inspite of me typing all that, u still comapre lehman-kahn situation to mirzapour-talebloo situation "relatively"

for ur info, i was talking about "relative comparison" as well, and still the 2 cant be comapred for the reasons i stated in those posts.

and secondly, inspite of me repeating several times that branko tried 3 players for LB badavi,nosrati,zare and now nikki/madanchi,
u still say that branko tried only nosrati or zare.

and just a reminder, my post was long because i had to quote ur arguments, ur posts are equally long but because u dont quote my arguments and just answer partially to some of my arguments, urs seem shorter!

[Doctor DOOM]

niki and madanchi for left BACK .... as in a "defender" ?

hehehe .... might as well try VH or daei or borhani or .... !!!

just becoz they play the left SIDE?

how long has it been since niki played as a left BACK ?

how is his defending ?

same with madanchi, whom I think has not played as a defender .... ever.
( but needs confirmation, though ).

badavi, nosrati and zareh.
out of these 3 , only ONE was a natural left defender.
the other two right and central def's.

what?
am I supposed to give branko a biscuit for trying such absurd things, especially since neither played well as LB and failed more times than not ?

well, what about choices like heidari, sadeghi , and lately, montazeri?

if I see him try the in form players ( when his choices are not only failing at TM, but are also out of form totally ) , THEN I will give credit.
not now, coz he has done NOTHING to remedy our LB problem.


just as the left wing problem.

[Martin-Reza]

lol.
you think that was tough?
try reading posts # 70 and 71 here :
http://persianfootball.com/forums/sh...t=25739&page=7

No, it was trying to tell you don't ALWAYS write a damn over-detailed reply. Everyone then and when types longer replies, but you made it a habit, just like letting your everyday frustration out on branko

[yashar_fasihnia]

niki and madanchi for left BACK .... as in a "defender" ?

hehehe .... might as well try VH or daei or borhani or .... !!!

just becoz they play the left SIDE?

how long has it been since niki played as a left BACK ?

how is his defending ?

same with madanchi, whom I think has not played as a defender .... ever.
( but needs confirmation, though ).

badavi, nosrati and zareh.
out of these 3 , only ONE was a natural left defender.
the other two right and central def's.

what?
am I supposed to give branko a biscuit for trying such absurd things, especially since neither played well as LB and failed more times than not ?

well, what about choices like heidari, sadeghi , and lately, montazeri?

if I see him try the in form players ( when his choices are not only failing at TM, but are also out of form totally ) , THEN I will give credit.
not now, coz he has done NOTHING to remedy our LB problem.


just as the left wing problem.

kaabi could do it, he never was a "Defender" either!
did we try borhani or hashemian that time when kaabi was tried?

did kaabi ever play as a RB before TM?
how was his defending?

well, if u whip branko for every every single thing he tries, why cant u give him a biscuit then?

its interesting how u say only one of the 3 candidates were a real left back but then, u come and suggest sadeghi as an alternative
but then again, remember, anceloti (sp?) plays jaap stam as RB in milan!

branko is trying players when they are not in form. again i should give u examples? he striked off kameli, alavi, nikki, and subbed out navidkia when all of them were out of form! (arent these players his favorite according to many?) and recently, he also said zare has to face competition with other players because he has lost his form? so wat r u arguing over? branko played sattar zare because "sattar zare javab midad" hala ke ru form nist, bazikonaye dige ham dar nazar gerefte! isnt this ur whole argument and wat ur demanding?

and yes, he has done a lot to remedy our LB problem, sattar zare was a very good option for LB,but because of 2 reasons, u might not consider him good enough
1)u r comparing him to kaabi and basically the right flank which as i said in previous posts, is not genuine because our right flank mashalla bezanam be takhte is very good. but this doesnt mean our left flank of weak, it just means that it is weaker than our right flank. it is decent however.
2)almost the same time, nikbakht lost his form as well, and our left flank lost its "ensejam" and again, people thought it was zare's fault.
but the fact is actually that zare performed his defensive duties pretty well and maybe his offense wasnt his best contributions, atleast compared to kaabi and kias but that wasnt primarily zare's duty. it was the LM duty who used to be nikbakht, but now its zandi!

like mansour correctly pointed out, take the example of costa rica, in the first half when teymourian was playing in kias position, u could see that our left flank was much stronger and offensive, while it compromised of the same zare - zandi combo! this should give u an idea that our left flank and LB in general isnt that bad! ofcourse, lately, zare has been out of form and has been relegated to the bench by branko's own brother, and branko has rightfully alarmed zare that he has to face competition now for LB!
perfectly logical and acceptable! i dunno wat it is that seems wrong to u doctor jan!

[Hajagha]

niki and madanchi for left BACK .... as in a "defender" ?

Do you still play football Peyman jan? mmmm, let me ask you this, have you ever played?

I am not saying it's perfect but for sure the closest positions in footabll are side backs/mid/forwards. It's much easier to use a side mid for back or forward than a center back for side back or ...

To prove it, look at Ka'abi, Kia and also Nikki himself who started his career as a "LEFT BACK" and moved to left mid.

Now I am thinking you are just trying to be against Branko rather than having your own proposal/view.

Cheers

[leviathan]

distribution and deadly on free kicks both direct and indirect.. ..he plays best as central midfielder and he always finds his way there no matter were he is placed.....
I say he should play as central mid fielder...and I think mobali should be placed in the left wing....and yes I know he is right footer.....

[Doctor DOOM]

1- yashar jan,
as I said, there are exceptions where playing a player out of his normal position, gets the results.
Such as the kaabi example.
But what you shd have noticed was my question of : did either of nosrati or zareh ( of the 3 Nmes branko has tried ) do well as LB ?
THIS is my bone of contention.
When you play a player out of position, and still don’t get the result, why shd you try & fail , try & fail, and …. Again and again ?
Move on .

As for sadeghi, well, compared to nosrati and zareh, sadeghi has played on the left side more than either of those two.

And again as I said earlier (Note to martin : I am repeating all this, becoz ppl don’t read what I wrote earlier !! then, I wouldnt have to repeat the same sentence 10 times over! ) : if we are compelled to take a right or central defender, might as well take someone who is in form and performs better … hence names like sadeghi, heidari, …. And lately, montazeri. did you read it at all ?

I hope with this 6th time repetition, ppl have understood the point.

( btw, I DID see Stam play as right back against barca. And how miserabely he performed.
Mind you, not that I’m complaining, as I side with barca anyday. )

-------------
“subbed out N-kia when he was out of form” ???

in real life, face to face conversation, I would be standing in front of you , silent, expecting for it to occur to you. It being the “do zari”.

Before you say such a thing, shdnt it strike you :
Why on earth would you even bring in an out of form player into a game, when there are plenty of in form players neglected ?



------------

I’d love to know what are the standards you hold that to you, zareh as LB has done well !

And plz don’t go on touting kaabi as RB, as if he has set a standard in defending as a RB ! … coz we know he hasn’t been setting the world on fire either.

But on comparison, he has done far less mistakes, committed far less silly mistakes and … .

----------------

teymoorian instead of kia:
another absurd and stupid decision.
Playing a central and defensive mid for an all out right wing role !!

Again, and true to normalcy, this experiment has resulted in another failure.
Teymoorian never did anything even a fraction of what kia does. No wonder our left wing looked stronger !
Talk about stupid positioning.

And btw, zareh – “who” combo?
Zareh-zandi?
When was that ?

======================================

haji jan, I do play once in a while, but I fail to see the relevance .

but I totally agree on your words : “It's much easier to use a side mid for back or forward than a center back for side back or ...”.
and maybe you can tell agha yashar about the “teymoorian for kia” issue, a bit.

I just asked “when was the last time niki played as a defender” ?
Meaning, the guy may not be used to defending or deemed unsuitable as a defender anymore.

Remember , kia was an all out forward at rah ahan ( or was it bank melli ? ).
Farhad majidi was a midfielder.
Hell, …. rahman was a volleyball player, and nakisa , a gymnast !

.... shd we ask these guys to ... ( you fill in the blank, reza jan )

======================

Iraj jan, in whose place shd zandi be placed ?

Surely not kia’s.
He cant play as left winger either.
That leaves nekounam’s def-mid role ( zandi cant defend as we have seen ) or karimi’s attacking mid / playmaker ( which one would you pick ? )

[yashar_fasihnia]

yes, there are exceptions, but u temme, how would u know if a player can be a success or not without trying him out! would u ever know kaabi would become a good RB if branko didnt try him?
now branko is trying somebody for LB, the same way he did for RB!
and i repeat, yes ZARE DID PERFORM WELL AS LB IN DEFENSE, INFACT IN MY OPINION BETTER THAN KAABI DEFENSIVE WISE. like i said, kaabi is better in offense than zare, but zare has been much better defensively than kaabi, which is quite a good balance because when kaabi moves forward, we can still have 3 defenders behind incase of a counter attack! at the same time, zare does make som runs along the flank and help in offense (although not as good as kaabi) but he can help in offense, much better than a player like sadeghi who cant make runs simply because he is a player of the same sabk as rezai or the same jaap stam u say couldnt perform as RB!
zare played extremely well against korea in the friendly match once he came on as LB in the second half and completely shut down park from that side, and if u notice in that game, korea was hardly able to create any offense from zare's side! its funny how u say u r a realistic person and look at reality but u fail to see we dont have the quality ur looking for in many iranian players, zare and other LB candidates included!

i read every single word u type, dont worry about ur energy going to waste, cos from wat it seems, i am repeating my arguments as well because u dont seem to read completely wat i say! yes sadeghi has played in the left in esteghlal but like i said, he plays the same sabk as rezai and jaap stam (who u said performed miserably there)! sadeghi cant move along the line, he cant make runs and defensaive wise also, yes he has a good height, but he fouls way too much, gives away a lot of fouls outside and even inside the penalty area, always ends up getting atleast a yellow, and is inexperienced and uncoordinated in TM!
thats exactly why branko is giving madanchi and nikbakht who have TM experience and like hadi jan said, nikki started as a LB, so they are better candidates for LB than sadeghi!
-------------
azize man, ajab giri dadiha, for the hundred thousandth time, navidkia has been showing signs of improvement recently in IPL, so branko has the right to invite him to see if he can reach his peak performance before hte world cup, and also motivate him at the same time to work harder and regain back his form! all navidkia and even nikbakht lack are peak form, besides that, they got almost everything TM requires from them! so if only they can work on their fitness, they will be the most valuable assets to TM, and branko is giving them this chance!

and during that game, branko did a very good thing by playing navidkia for 2 reasons, first to test his condition (Afterall wat r friendlies for? testing players and getting them ready for the major games), secondly, he signalled navidkia that he is not happy with his performance and he needs to work harder! just like he has signalled sattar zare that he is facing competition from madanchi and nikki!
So again, i dont see a problem with this!

------------
no, i never even said zare should be of kaabi's standards. and if u have read my posts completely, u would know i said we shouldnt expect zare or even our LB to be as good as our RB.
but in this post itself, above i told u, zare has been quite successfully defensively and the best example was the friendly against korea where park ji sung literally disappeared from the game in the second half with the introduciton of zare into the team! now zare might not be as offensively helpful as kaabi (although he does take parts in offense, much more than a plyer like sadeghi can) but defensive wise in my eyes, i think zare has been more successful that kaabi which again covers up each others weak and strong points.
----------------
im not saying playing teymourian was good or not, im saying when branko played teymourian ( a player who can be compared to zandi style wise) was played in RB, u could clearly see our left flank was stronger! so why again stop comparing our right flrank which consists of irans best players with our left flank which has irans good players but not best players, and hence, the misleading fact that our left side is poor.
and because mahdavikia is arguably one of iran's best players, u cant expect not only teymourian but any other player to perform a fraction of wat kia does on the right.

and wat do u mean zareh-zandi combo when was that? i guess in the recent TM games since zandi joined TM, he and zare have been incharge of irans left side!
======================================
again, u seem the one who didnt read my post entirely, i never said playing teymourian on the right is good or bad, i just said, compare our right flank when teymourian who is a player similar to zandi in style, played as RM and zandi as LM. then maybe u understand zandi's worth!

[Hajagha]

haji jan, I do play once in a while, but I fail to see the relevance .
but I totally agree on your words : “It's much easier to use a side mid for back or forward than a center back for side back or ...”.
and maybe you can tell agha yashar about the “teymoorian for kia” issue, a bit.
I just asked “when was the last time niki played as a defender” ?
Meaning, the guy may not be used to defending or deemed unsuitable as a defender anymore.
Remember , kia was an all out forward at rah ahan ( or was it bank melli ? ).
Farhad majidi was a midfielder.
Hell, …. rahman was a volleyball player, and nakisa , a gymnast !
.... shd we ask these guys to ... ( you fill in the blank, reza jan )

Nikki played left defense in EsEs before Ciro comes to Iran.

If you know about transforming player from one position to another position, then why you are against it?

The new diamond system nowadays gives the right and left back more duties. They should cover the whole side lines offensively and defensively. The right and left midfielder should be able to play as center and line as well (which is very hard in my opinion), for example, our right mid, Kia is not a good center mid, that's why he lost his spot in Hamburg. Our left mid, Zandi, is not a good winger. I think if we adjust a more offensive minded defender and bring one more defensive mid (Teymourian) into squad, we will have a balance team, look bellow:

Ka'abi---Golo---Rezaei---Nikki

----Teymourian--Javad---

---Kia---Karimi---Zandi---

------Hashemian---------

In here, whenever we miss one of side defenders in counter attack by the opponent, we have one of two defensive mid who stays back to cover the gap.

For the record, Bakhtiari-zadeh can be replaced by Teymourian too.

[yashar_fasihnia]

Nikki played left defense in EsEs before Ciro comes to Iran.
If you know about transforming player from one position to another position, then why you are against it?
The new diamond system nowadays gives the right and left back more duties. They should cover the whole side lines offensively and defensively. The right and left midfielder should be able to play as center and line as well (which is very hard in my opinion), for example, our right mid, Kia is not a good center mid, that's why he lost his spot in Hamburg. Our left mid, Zandi, is not a good winger. I think if we adjust a more offensive minded defender and bring one more defensive mid (Teymourian) into squad, we will have a balance team, look bellow:
Ka'abi---Golo---Rezaei---Nikki
----Teymourian--Javad---
---Kia---Karimi---Zandi---
------Hashemian---------
In here, whenever we miss one of side defenders in counter attack by the opponent, we have one of two defensive mid who stays back to cover the gap.
For the record, Bakhtiari-zadeh can be replaced by Teymourian too.

thankyouo hajagha jan, and thats exactly why branko invited bakhtiarizadeh, nosrati, yahya, rahman. they can all play either as CB or as DM next to nekounam (well maybe not nosrati or rezai but yahya and sohrab can) and tahts why branko has played yahya as a second DM before as well!

its clear that this formation although it has 2 defensive midfielders and 2 CB can be really offensive and just cos branko has invited some defensive minded players and might play with 2 defensive midfields, doent mean iran is gonna play defensive (doctor dooms theory) nikki and kaabi will be supporting the offense from the 2 flanks and nekounam and/or teymourian can come a bit forward for long shots or deflected shots and both of them are good shooters!

however, one thing that worries me here is that both nikki and kaabi might pull forward at the same time, creating space on the our 2 flanks and good chances for our opponents to attack us from the sides either through high crosses or going all the way to the corner line pulling atleast one defender with themselves and then giving a sharp diagonal "pass ru be aghab" into the penalty area which can be very dangerous!

so i think if we are gonna play without daei, i would go with this one..
Ka'abi---Golo---Rezaei---zare*
---------Nekounam------
Kia---Karimi---Zandi---Nikki
------Hashemian---------

*hopefully zare can get his form back and return to his defensive duties otherwise, we can even use a defender like bakhtiarizadeh and ask him not to come infront unless its on corner kicks or dead balls.

with this formationa, we have 5 attacking players, supported by kaabi at times but i guess nekounam has to stay behind now more often than before.
this gives any of the 4 players behind hashemian, specially zandi and karimi a chance to move foward as a supporting striker while the other 3 can cover up the void if one them goes infront.

[Hajagha]

... one thing that worries me here is that both nikki and kaabi might pull forward at the same time, ...

Ka'abi---Golo---Rezaei---zare*
---------Nekounam------
Kia---Karimi---Zandi---Nikki
------Hashemian---------

Your concern can be mentioned to the players to not come forward at the same time. As easy as that. After all, they are intelligent human, not robot.

Your formation does not have the balance needed in the left. This line up force Nekonam to stay back for the whole time which is not in favor of the team, besides, Zare becomes a full left defender and Nikki a full left mid, it's like we sacrifice one player when only one of them should be able to fulfill both duties.

I totally agree on Golo for DM too. He is intelligent, technical, precise passes, cool headed and deadly scoring ability.

Cheers,