" To win, you need to have the Ball " !!!

[Ali Chicago]

on a relevant note:

Doc;

About that Ghotbi pic I think it is sensationalism. Picture can be photo shopped in the first place. Even if it isn't, being coach of a team doesn't mean one hates the opposing team players. Ghotbi may have shaked hand with the other team player, taking it out of context and using sensationalism is what newspapers do well. We really dont' know the context (assuming it is real). Is this supposed to be proof of that Ghotbi liked Korea?

I can accept that from cheap Iranian newspapers, but disappointed to see a esteemed person like you uses that as a tool.

[Doctor DOOM]

well, first of all, I didnt "use it" in any way.
I just posted it from the general forum.


secondly, it is definitely not photoshopped as there are other pic's from different angles showing the same thing.

third, nobody said he shdnt have feelings for korea. neither does anyone say he shd be punching the korean player in the face.
however, as the coach of a team, his most immediate concern and attention shd be going to his team and his players, before anything else. be it to console his players or to show concern for any injury or ... .


all I see is a lot of excuse making for each and every issue. so much that I know if I say "he took out a gun and shot ando in the face", someone will say "it was to motivate iranian players and nothing wrong w/ it. all coaches in the world do that"!!!!

[Ali Chicago]

well, first of all, I didnt "use it" in any way.
I just posted it from the general forum.


secondly, it is definitely not photoshopped as there are other pic's from different angles showing the same thing.

third, nobody said he shdnt have feelings for korea. neither does anyone say he shd be punching the korean player in the face.
however, as the coach of a team, his most immediate concern and attention shd be going to his team and his players, before anything else. be it to console his players or to show concern for any injury or ... .


all I see is a lot of excuse making for each and every issue. so much that I know if I say "he took out a gun and shot ando in the face", someone will say "it was to motivate iranian players and nothing wrong w/ it. all coaches in the world do that"!!!!

Like I said in the other thread, as Voltire said "Perfect is the enemy of Good."
I wish you were using your critical anlaytical thinking differently, but at the end, everybody make choices.

I am so disappointed to see your critical analy

[Babak agha]

I remember PSV having the lesser possession of the ball almost every match, in the same country that Cruijff developed his idea's, and winning the league time after time.
It all depends on the style of football you play and your effectiveness, plus the selfconvidence that makes you believe that you'll always score when given the chance.
Cruijff although being a very intelligent footballer, isn't the brightest man you'll meet. He sometimes has troubles bringing his thoughts into words, so you shouldn't actually quote only one of his sentences, but try to understand the essentials of his whole speech.

[zzgloo]

Cruijff although being a very intelligent footballer, isn't the brightest man you'll meet. He sometimes has troubles bringing his thoughts into words, so you shouldn't actually quote only one of his sentences, but try to understand the essentials of his whole speech.

[Babak agha]

Agha jane Aziz vakhti maro nemishnasi, chera migi man nemivahmam.
I don't know if you live in Holland or not, but if you did you wouldn't compare CruIJff with Marx. Just like I don't compare your words with those of Shakespeare. The total football had nothing to do with Barca, but started in Holland and in Ajax.
Again Cruijff is well known in holland (and Spain) for the unclear way of formulating his sentences. Quoting his sentences doesn't do him justice, because it might not fully represent his thoughts.
Also you don't have to teach me about Cruijff, because I know everything there's to know about him. And I'm not saying that all of those quotes are not precisely what he had in his thought, but you should always listen to his whole speech to know what he is saying and why he is saying it.
And again it wasn't Cruijff who invented total football, he still was a player back then.
Cruijff is credited for the style of football Spains plays, because Spain is said to play the same football as Barca (as most of them are Barca players.) and Cruijff has introduced total football ( Ajax way of play, that later also was introduced to the Dutch NT) to Barca when he was their coach.
And again Cruijff has one vision of football and other coaches might have others. Cruijff did win a EC, but I wouldn't say he is the most successful coach there is.

In the end none of the above proves that styles goes before talent, as all of the teams that are playing the Ajax style of football AND were successful had very talented players. Yet an other fact that none can deny is that Germany and Italy are te most successful teams in Europe and both off them don't play Total Football.

[zzgloo]

.
Agha jane Aziz vakhti maro nemishnasi, chera migi man nemivahmam.
.

The total football had nothing to do with Barca, but started in Holland and in Ajax.
.
I know everything there's to know about him.

[Babak agha]

Akhe azize man ye chiz begoo ba agh joor darbiyad.

Rinus Michels was founder of total football. Cruijff was just the most famous pupil of him. And people, like you, wrongfully attribute the idea of totall football to him.

And it wasn't Cruijff who introduced the idea of total football to Barca but it was Michels himself, as he was their coach twice.

The fact that Barca plays like they do now has also nothing to do with Cruijf but with type of players that they've got. First of they don't play "Total Football" and you'd see that if you knew what total football was, second of all you think if even if players like Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Teves and Ronaldo would play for Barca, then they would play Total Football? Not every type of player can play that sort of game, let alone Iranian players who can't even play the bezan ziresh game right.

Furthermore, the most successful Dutch coaches (Van Gaal, Hiddink, Advocaat, etc.) do not agree with Cruijff on many things yet they are more succesful than him. On the other hand Cruijff's pupils (like Koeman etc.) who do want to coach and play like Cruijff didn't have any success.

I don't mean it as an insult in anyway, but it's morranic to say that the success of Spain now has anything to do with Cruijff. Was the failure of Spain in all these years then Cruijff's fault too? And age Cruijff kheyli mardesh bood ye kari bara Holland mikard na espania. Neither Cruijff nor his pupil van Basten could do anything for holland (with their "total football") yet Hollan became 2nd in WC by playing in a way that Cuijff hated and not according to his beloved 4-3-3 formation.

Na azize man, Spain is so good because they got at least 2 world class (if not the best) players for each position, like Brasil used to have. Akhe ye chiz begoo Ba aghl joor dar biyad.

Btw just for your information: even though people, even football people, here in Holland have high regards for Cruijff as a player, they make fun of what he says. Those quotes that you use are funny nonsense here in Holland, use just to make fun. So you might want to reconsider of whom you quote and why you do it.

[zzgloo]

Akhe azize man ye chiz begoo ba agh joor darbiyad.

Rinus Michels was founder of total football. Cruijff was just the most famous pupil of him. And people, like you, wrongfully attribute the idea of totall football to him.

And it wasn't Cruijff who introduced the idea of total football to Barca but it was Michels himself, as he was their coach twice.

The fact that Barca plays like they do now has also nothing to do with Cruijf but with type of players that they've got. First of they don't play "Total Football" and you'd see that if you knew what total football was, second of all you think if even if players like Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Teves and Ronaldo would play for Barca, then they would play Total Football? Not every type of player can play that sort of game, let alone Iranian players who can't even play the bezan ziresh game right.

Furthermore, the most successful Dutch coaches (Van Gaal, Hiddink, Advocaat, etc.) do not agree with Cruijff on many things yet they are more succesful than him. On the other hand Cruijff's pupils (like Koeman etc.) who do want to coach and play like Cruijff didn't have any success.

I don't mean it as an insult in anyway, but it's morranic to say that the success of Spain now has anything to do with Cruijff. Was the failure of Spain in all these years then Cruijff's fault too? And age Cruijff kheyli mardesh bood ye kari bara Holland mikard na espania. Neither Cruijff nor his pupil van Basten could do anything for holland (with their "total football") yet Hollan became 2nd in WC by playing in a way that Cuijff hated and not according to his beloved 4-3-3 formation.

Na azize man, Spain is so good because they got at least 2 world class (if not the best) players for each position, like Brasil used to have. Akhe ye chiz begoo Ba aghl joor dar biyad.

Btw just for your information: even though people, even football people, here in Holland have high regards for Cruijff as a player, they make fun of what he says. Those quotes that you use are funny nonsense here in Holland, use just to make fun. So you might want to reconsider of whom you quote and why you do it.

.
.
I do not appreciate the tone of your langauge......and I can not carry any conversation with your type.....
Thank you.....and good luck.

[Babak agha]

I don't know what tone you're talking about, as I already said, I didn't mean to insult you in anyway. But the things that you are saying doesn't make much sense. Spain has everything to owe to their talented squad and almost nothing to Johan Cruijff. The Total Football is a school of football that's over 40 years old now. Football has developed in those years and Cruijff's thoughts about football is even criticized here in Holland. When you have defenders who can't build up and midfielders who can't preform under pressure, then playing possession football is an absolute suicide. Just my 2 cents about this subject and again please note that I know everything there is to know, not only about Cruijff, but the whole Dutch football.
And we don't have to carry on with this conversation, as every time I give you an example of why I think you're wrong, you completely ignore those facts and carry on saying that I don't understand and give me some more info on Cruijff. Even after I said that I know all about Cruijff and have been following him ( well you're forced to when you live in Holland) for at least 12 years now.
Anyways no hard feelings man, I was just giving my insight about this particular subject, for in coincidence, I know a lot of.

[zzgloo]

I don't know what tone you're talking about, as I already said, I didn't mean to insult you in anyway. But the things that you are saying doesn't make much sense. Spain has everything to owe to their talented squad and almost nothing to Johan Cruijff. The Total Football is a school of football that's over 40 years old now. Football has developed in those years and Cruijff's thoughts about football is even criticized here in Holland. When you have defenders who can't build up and midfielders who can't preform under pressure, then playing possession football is an absolute suicide. Just my 2 cents about this subject and again please note that I know everything there is to know, not only about Cruijff, but the whole Dutch football.
And we don't have to carry on with this conversation, as every time I give you an example of why I think you're wrong, you completely ignore those facts and carry on saying that I don't understand and give me some more info on Cruijff. Even after I said that I know all about Cruijff and have been following him ( well you're forced to when you live in Holland) for at least 12 years now.
Anyways no hard feelings man, I was just giving my insight about this particular subject, for in coincidence, I know a lot of.

Thanks for adjusting your tone of voice.........as your first post , with shekspear exmples, there some demeaning insinuations.....and later,words such " ye chizi begoo ke ba agh joor dar biad ".....
How ever, I appreciate you wanting to have a healthy exchange now...
I do not question your knowledge of Dutch football or " Total Football ".....
But, I am old enough to acctualy see what Total football was, and see its difference with currant football of Spain...rather than reading it on football magazine...
During the 70s....Rinus Michell,presented a modern kind of football, which is very different from what we see in Holland and Spain.....it was very revolutionary,and I must say, to this day, no one els, has done it, because no one can teach it other than Rinus Michell himself......
His kind of football, required a " Coach inside of The pitch "..such as Cruyff....and although it was based on high passing type football, but it was more triangular type football advances, and not like today, pentagon,hegzagon, etc......and it was defenetly not this fast passing as we see today in spain and Holland teams.......
Rinus Michell, introduced a concept of " taking back the possession "....as while the opponant had the ball on the field, A sudden burst of mass attack was supervised by " On the pitch coach,namely cruyff ", as all of the sudden 4 or 5 or even 6 Holland players would simulteniously attack the ball carrear..to get the possession back.........
But, Cruyff, took this possession himself to a higher level........and added the very high speed short passings and advancements.....
Just one simple look at the games of Holland during Rinus Michell and Today's Holland will tell you the difference, what Total football was, and what it is now.

[Babak agha]

Holland doesn't play Total football any more. They don't even play 4-3-3. Anyways I think it's best to end this discussion right here, As my intentions never to explain what total football is or how Spain or Hollans plays, rather than making clear that "Cruijffiaans taalgebruik" is used in Holland when people are saying unclear things that nobody understands.
So qouting johan Cruijff isn't the smartest thing to do. If you'd speak dutch and listen to one of his speeches, you'd know what I'm saying.