Ghotbi's comment during the half time of Iran-SKorea

[Ali Chicago]

There has been pages written about how Ghotbi was "Spineless", "Gutless", etc especially during the south Korea game. I found out about this a few days ago and wanted to share it with you which contradicts the claims he was "Spineless" etc.

There is a very high probability that what I share with you is true, Javad Nekoonam even hinted at Ghotbi saying something impolite to the players during the half time.

According to the rumors during the half time of Iran South Korea game, Ghtobi asks players something along the line of
"Chera mesle Khar tooye Gel moondeed". Javad Nekooname didn't mention this sentence specifically but claimed Ghotbi said something impolite, Sayed Jalal Hosseini and Aghili verified Nekoonam's claim as well.

To me this shows that performance of the players during the first half was a disappointment to Ghotbi as well and he was as surprised by the poor performance of the Iranian players. Had Ghotbi sent the team to defend the whole game he wouldn't have said something like this.

To further support my theory, If you read the interview of the players who were critics of the Ghtobi (Khalatbari, Hosseini, Nekoonam) all claimed Ghotbi had given them specific duties and enforced that they follow the system. Khatbari claimed he wasn't supposed to get the ball and dribble his direct defender even. So if players were given direct duties and was expected to follow them , and then Ghotbi comes and says something like that, one can conclude, Ghotbi hadn't given purely defensive duties to the players. One still can argue that duties weren't the right ones, but this thread isn't about that.
To me the mere facts that Ghotbi told them "Chera mesle khar tooye Gel moondeed", suggest Ghotbi had expected something else.

This post isn't to defend Ghotbi or open the can of worms again, it is a mere data point that strongly suggests, Ghotbi assigned duties and expectation from the players was very different from what he saw during the first half and hence this comment. If you read the Ghotbi's interview after the game where he said he had to change 6-7 players to change the game flow, one can realize how disappointed he (like many of us) had been with the performance of the team. This in part Ghotbi's fault as well, I don't deny that, but calling him "Gutless" "Spineless" based on this event maybe is unfair.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

first thanks for this post. difficult to verify what happened.

but based on what you say, my take;

- well, I dont wanna know what Ali Parvin, Ghalenoiee etc say to their players in lockers, even in German Bundesliga tough coaches like Werner Lorant etc start bashing. I don't say this is correct but it happens even heavier than that in other leagues etc.... and our players say: "he said something impolite" beheshoon bar khod heyvooniha.
Reminds me of the famous interview of Firouz Karimi making fun saying: "lotfan ye Santr az trafeh rast befrestin, va aghayeh Ghonche Naraghi ba kamale ehteram bi zahmat yek Sar benavazan..."
..........anyway, when I was playing football in the army we heard even harder/harsher comments from our coaches/commanders etc.... omidvaram, "bazikonha be bozorgiyeh khodeshoon bebakhshand"...

- After the game Ghotbi also said, "players didn't play the way we asked them to"


Again, who says what or he is right is difficult for us to verify, what I am saying is there will be always discussions like this after losses.

[Doctor DOOM]

before saying anything, let me first understand the reason behind making this thread.

ali jan, are you trying to say ghtbi actually wanted an offensive game and after seeing the miserably defensive first half, was angry about it and therefore tried to jolt the team into playing more offensively by saying this?
(that is IF this rumor is reliable)


=============

oh, btw, since you guys are still hung on ghtbi and cant seem to get him out of your minds, apparently he lost to yet another second division team, conceding another 4 goals ( different from the other 6-1 loss to the other second div team!) ... making the number of goals conceded from SECOND DIV teams to 10 in 2 games!!!!
thought I'd let you all know of his marvelous exploits in the land of the rising sun.

[Ali Chicago]

first thanks for this post. difficult to verify what happened.

but based on what you say, my take;

- well, I dont wanna know what Ali Parvin, Ghalenoiee etc say to their players in lockers, even in German Bundesliga tough coaches like Werner Lorant etc start bashing. I don't say this is correct but it happens even heavier than that in other leagues etc.... and our players say: "he said something impolite" beheshoon bar khod heyvooniha.
Reminds me of the famous interview of Firouz Karimi making fun saying: "lotfan ye Santr az trafeh rast befrestin, va aghayeh Ghonche Naraghi ba kamale ehteram bi zahmat yek Sar benavazan..."
..........anyway, when I was playing football in the army we heard even harder/harsher comments from our coaches/commanders etc.... omidvaram, "bazikonha be bozorgiyeh khodeshoon bebakhshand"...

- After the game Ghotbi also said, "players didn't play the way we asked them to"


Again, who says what or he is right is difficult for us to verify, what I am saying is there will be always discussions like this after losses.

Amoo Jaan;

I couldn't follow what you meant by your post. My aim wasn't to say Ghotbi was rude or anything. My aim was to show that Ghotbi didn't expect our team to play so miserably in the first half (at least it wasn't his plan to sit back and defend all). Hence; he was trying to jolt players and give them courage (in his own way), maybe his lack of proficiency in Farsi made him to use this expression. I know emotions are high during the half time and things are being said, so this post isn't an attempt to show he was rude or anything.

[Ali Chicago]

before saying anything, let me first understand the reason behind making this thread.

ali jan, are you trying to say ghtbi actually wanted an offensive game and after seeing the miserably defensive first half, was angry about it and therefore tried to jolt the team into playing more offensively by saying this?
(that is IF this rumor is reliable)


=============

oh, btw, since you guys are still hung on ghtbi and cant seem to get him out of your minds, apparently he lost to yet another second division team, conceding another 4 goals ( different from the other 6-1 loss to the other second div team!) ... making the number of goals conceded from SECOND DIV teams to 10 in 2 games!!!!
thought I'd let you all know of his marvelous exploits in the land of the rising sun.

Yes Payman Jaan,
If the rumor is right, I deduce he was trying to stir up emotions and courage in our players (granted he didn't use the best choices IMHO).

This thread ain't about Ghotbi's overall qualification. I contend Ghotbi's performance at the TM helm wasn't a success at all. He failed in WC qualification and AFC Asian cup.
This thread is about a news (assuming it is true) indicated Ghotbi's intention wasn't to go and sit back and defend all game against South Korea.

[yashar_fasihnia]

my humble opinion, ghotbi doesnt even know the phrase "chera mesle khar tooye gel mundin", atleast not the farsi version.
from the interviews i saw of him in farsi, even the most recent ones, this expression was too much for his level of farsi.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Amoo Jaan;

I couldn't follow what you meant by your post. My aim wasn't to say Ghotbi was rude or anything. My aim was to show that Ghotbi didn't expect our team to play so miserably in the first half (at least it wasn't his plan to sit back and defend all). Hence; he was trying to jolt players and give them courage (in his own way), maybe his lack of proficiency in Farsi made him to use this expression. I know emotions are high during the half time and things are being said, so this post isn't an attempt to show he was rude or anything.

Ali Jan,
I understood you very well, no worries. I was referring to something else (or additional) to that what you mentioned.
maybe the below comment of mine to Yashi makes you clear what I meant in the first place.

my humble opinion, ghotbi doesnt even know the phrase "chera mesle khar tooye gel mundin", atleast not the farsi version.
from the interviews i saw of him in farsi, even the most recent ones, this expression was too much for his level of farsi.

Maybe its our Persian Culture (too polite etc etc)
"chera mesle khar tooye gel mundin" ........... well German coaches, as I mentioned such as Werner Lorant etc would even shout at their players: "Ihr spielt Scheisse" ("You play Shit"). even our own Ali Parvin would get a little be further than this.... even my own coaches went further than this. Its not Ballet, its football, if you play shit, than you have to be told you play shit.

AGAIN I highlight: I DONT SAY THAT IS A CORRECT APPROACH OR THE RIGHT THING TO SAY
but its neither over the limit comparing to what other coaches say and do.

[Doctor DOOM]

Yes Payman Jaan,
If the rumor is right, I deduce he was trying to stir up emotions and courage in our players (granted he didn't use the best choices IMHO).

This thread is about a news (assuming it is true) indicated Ghotbi's intention wasn't to go and sit back and defend all game against South Korea.

thank you for clarifying this for me.
coz when I read the original post I couldnt believe anyone (even those WITHOUT coaching background) still believes ghtbi had ANY offensive strategy in that particular game. so I had to wait and clarify it first.

now, I can make a long post and go over at least 8-10 issues which point towards the OPPOSITE direction that you just claimed (ghtbi wanting an offensive game).

but I see little point in writing for 20 minutes about something so bloody obvious.
however, I must agree with yashar. from what I saw and heard of this chap, the past 2 years, I seriously doubt he is aware of such phrases in farsi or their meaning ... let alone using them in the right situations.
so this is most probably nothing more than a rumor.

but lets say it is not.
then we are all intelligent ppl who have eyes and can deduce matters. we are certainly not ppl who would ignore what we see and only stick to some vague "rumor".

lets say he was angry and "intended" a more offensive game.
how?
where?
- every person who saw the game and their cousins and their blind neighbors testify to the ultra negative and defensive starting line up.
there's no use denying this.
not enough to throw this rumor out? read on.

- and if we are to believe some half-baked rumor, then we must take what the players said as freaking GOSPEL. when they all say they were restricted and were told to hold back.
still not enough? plz continue.

- lets say our int'l master coach was angry for the defensive display. what does a coach do in such situations where he wants offense and the team defends?
HE SUBSTITUTES THE RIGHT PLAYERS TO ADD TO THE OFFENSE.

aside from replacing the failing nosrati with haidari which is becoz nosrati was getting dribbled and left behind and ... generally having a horrible game as RB, have you even noticed the other subs and the choices?

when a coach takes out his young, energetic center forward and instead brings in an out-of-form, slow midfielder like shojaei, it says everything EXCEPT offensive strategy. in fact, it screams FEAR.

when a coach still sticks to his 3 def-mid line up without bringing in any of the mids who CAN CREATE something of an offense (nori, hadadifard and mobaali), you still want us to believe the ridiculous rumor that he supposedly "wanted to play offense"?
No. it says the little mouse of a coach is HAPPY with 8 men defending on the edge of our box.

when the coach brings in his third sub at minute 105-110 or so AFTER WE HAVE CONCEDED, you still want us to believe he has a spine and wants to play offense and win the game?
No. it says the tiny, feeble minded video analyst was aiming for the tie-breaks.

and quite a few other issues that CLEARLY UNDERLINE HOW GUTLESS & SPINELESS THIS LITTLE VIDEO ANALYST WAS.
not to mention how baseless and ridiculous this rumor is that his fans are trying to somehow cover how drastically horrible, how catastrophically terrible his spineless defensive game plan was.


in short: na baradare man.
that little man was indeed spineless and didnt have the guts to use our lads to their potential and becoz of his utter FRIGHT, our team was reduced to a mouse (that fit the coach's character)

[Hajagha]

My opinion: Most of players didn't even accept him as a coach. So, for them it didn't matter what he meant.

Otherwise, every one knows the language in the locker room.

In their mind, this guy is here bcz Ahmadinejad wants him here, and not bcz he is a coach. I kind of agree with them.

Cheers,

[zzgloo]

Our majid In one his posts said something very important ,....He said, the major issue is, " Our Football players , recieve proffesional type money, but do not act proffesional ".....
All over the world, the langauge used behind the close doors are far worse than " mesle khar tu gel mundin "......
The gang attack of TM players against a coach,is far more troubling ,and unproffessional,than statements such as that being said by a coach.
The future coaches of TM should take a note of that.
Players so spoiled , so lazzy that they run during the games half as much as European players do, and creating hashieh,and back talkings like kabie and Nikbakht.........should have thier " Ass " Kicked in a major way...
If I was a next coach, I would make them work so hard, they would Piss Blood in thier pants !

[Ali Chicago]

Well, Payman jaan, we have argued over this for months. The mere fact that he said something like this (which it seems he did, since both Nekoonaam and Aghili claimed he said something impolite) shows he didn't expect such a defensive stand.

In your opinion he used the wrong people in the line up, and in hind sight he did. However, I contend he was expecting more from the line up he sent to the field.

And Paymaan Jaan, for the love of god don't make a god from Karim Ansarifard. The way you talk about him it is as if, he was our savior. I know how much you hate Shojaie but if I was Ghotbi and had a player who starts at La Liga, I would have used him to change the game flow as well.

One more time, the only point I am contending is based on this comment (assuming it is true), our coach strategy wasn't to sit back and defend. Game dynamics changed and things turned out differently (in part due to poor line up by Ghotbi) but this is all hind sight right now (which is always 20-20). He expected more from Noorie, Nekoo, Khalatbari in South Korea game and none of them delivered. Two of these players now bad mouth him, while the poor performance of them is the ciause of loss. but this is how it is. Victory is for the players and defeats are for the coaches .

Again my only point is based on this comment (if it is true) his strategy wasn't to go and defend.

thank you for clarifying this for me.
coz when I read the original post I couldnt believe anyone (even those WITHOUT coaching background) still believes ghtbi had ANY offensive strategy in that particular game. so I had to wait and clarify it first.

now, I can make a long post and go over at least 8-10 issues which point towards the OPPOSITE direction that you just claimed (ghtbi wanting an offensive game).

but I see little point in writing for 20 minutes about something so bloody obvious.
however, I must agree with yashar. from what I saw and heard of this chap, the past 2 years, I seriously doubt he is aware of such phrases in farsi or their meaning ... let alone using them in the right situations.
so this is most probably nothing more than a rumor.

but lets say it is not.
then we are all intelligent ppl who have eyes and can deduce matters. we are certainly not ppl who would ignore what we see and only stick to some vague "rumor".

lets say he was angry and "intended" a more offensive game.
how?
where?
- every person who saw the game and their cousins and their blind neighbors testify to the ultra negative and defensive starting line up.
there's no use denying this.
not enough to throw this rumor out? read on.

- and if we are to believe some half-baked rumor, then we must take what the players said as freaking GOSPEL. when they all say they were restricted and were told to hold back.
still not enough? plz continue.

- lets say our int'l master coach was angry for the defensive display. what does a coach do in such situations where he wants offense and the team defends?
HE SUBSTITUTES THE RIGHT PLAYERS TO ADD TO THE OFFENSE.

aside from replacing the failing nosrati with haidari which is becoz nosrati was getting dribbled and left behind and ... generally having a horrible game as RB, have you even noticed the other subs and the choices?

when a coach takes out his young, energetic center forward and instead brings in an out-of-form, slow midfielder like shojaei, it says everything EXCEPT offensive strategy. in fact, it screams FEAR.

when a coach still sticks to his 3 def-mid line up without bringing in any of the mids who CAN CREATE something of an offense (nori, hadadifard and mobaali), you still want us to believe the ridiculous rumor that he supposedly "wanted to play offense"?
No. it says the little mouse of a coach is HAPPY with 8 men defending on the edge of our box.

when the coach brings in his third sub at minute 105-110 or so AFTER WE HAVE CONCEDED, you still want us to believe he has a spine and wants to play offense and win the game?
No. it says the tiny, feeble minded video analyst was aiming for the tie-breaks.

and quite a few other issues that CLEARLY UNDERLINE HOW GUTLESS & SPINELESS THIS LITTLE VIDEO ANALYST WAS.
not to mention how baseless and ridiculous this rumor is that his fans are trying to somehow cover how drastically horrible, how catastrophically terrible his spineless defensive game plan was.


in short: na baradare man.
that little man was indeed spineless and didnt have the guts to use our lads to their potential and becoz of his utter FRIGHT, our team was reduced to a mouse (that fit the coach's character)

[Ali Chicago]

My opinion: Most of players didn't even accept him as a coach. So, for them it didn't matter what he meant.
Otherwise, every one knows the language in the locker room.
In their mind, this guy is here bcz Ahmadinejad wants him here, and not bcz he is a coach. I kind of agree with them.
Cheers,

I think most of our players aren't used to playing in a system and rely a lot on their improvisation, hence they had a hard time with Ghotbi style (or any professional coach for that matter), since they have to follow a very strict system. Hence you see the complaints from Nekoo, Khalatbari, Aghili, Hosseini, etc.

[Doctor DOOM]

ali jan, so what you're saying is you are willing to accept :

a RUMOR
about what may or may not have been said,
and then without being in ghtbi's head,
you draw YOUR ASSUMPTION
that maybe he wanted to play more offensively.
........?????????????


but at the same time, you refuse to accept :
what YOU SAW WITH YOUR OWN EYES,
and a whole host of issues and points that only point towards his fearful, negative mindset and gameplan for the game

it's like having a bird in one hand, versus having heard someone telling his neighbor about some round shaped object behind some bush that may or may not be an egg that may or may not become a bird (or a turtle!)
hhmm..... tough pick


sorry, bro ... but all I can say is this desperate urge to somehow, by hook or crook, purchase some credit for gtbi is making the little man look even more weak and incompetent!


and to top that, you are ready to throw all the players under the bus just to save the little analyst!! that little man, digeh tarreh ham baratoon khord nemikoneh ... while these players are still in YOUR TEAM MELLI and will be fighting for your honor and country.
this tendency to sacrifice everything and everyone only for the sake of one little man is most worrying.


so my suggestion is for all of you ppl to stop resorting to half-baked rumors and desperate measures to squeeze some positive out of a corpse. you only inflict more ridicule and negativity on the dead horse.

digeh khod danid

[zzgloo]

his strategy wasn't to go and defend.[/SIZE][/U][/B]

Ali jaan......
While I give right to a TM coach to device any plan he sees fit,and " Monday night quarterbacking " is wrong..........and I do not doubt his desire to win the game..( Some players said,he cried after the loss ).....yet....
His strategy , was a negative one,even,during the previouse game he won in South Korea....
It appears ( Not a fact ), that he was Intimidated by the south Koreans fast Football ( Some may say, he had the right )...and based on many factors:such as :
1- He thought Korea was a better team.
2-He thought,his previouse strategy ( containment ) had worked.
3- He feared he would be bomborded ( even essasinated )if he lost the game ......
What ever the motive, he was the coach, and it was his right to do as he wished............................. his strategy appeared to be, Containment,tireing the S.korean players,and end of the time scoring or even taking it to penalty shoot out....... ...
And,his strategy was even close to be materialized.........But here is the major point......... "critising his Containment plans ". is one thing......" assuming we would have won the game other wise " is another.........
Although, " The skiddy " ( frighten ) look of our players during the first half , has been insulting to many TM fans.......yet, some how, assuming that was how exactly Ghotbi had invisioned the first half to be...is a wrong assumption..............
It is very possible, Ghotbi's strategy for the " Intimidated ",first half ,was only part of the reason...and The players' psycological/performance/lazzyness may also had something to do with it.

[Ali Chicago]

ali jan, so what you're saying is you are willing to accept :

a RUMOR
about what may or may not have been said,
and then without being in ghtbi's head,
you draw YOUR ASSUMPTION
that maybe he wanted to play more offensively.
........?????????????


but at the same time, you refuse to accept :
what YOU SAW WITH YOUR OWN EYES,
and a whole host of issues and points that only point towards his fearful, negative mindset and gameplan for the game

it's like having a bird in one hand, versus having heard someone telling his neighbor about some round shaped object behind some bush that may or may not be an egg that may or may not become a bird (or a turtle!)
hhmm..... tough pick


sorry, bro ... but all I can say is this desperate urge to somehow, by hook or crook, purchase some credit for gtbi is making the little man look even more weak and incompetent!


and to top that, you are ready to throw all the players under the bus just to save the little analyst!! that little man, digeh tarreh ham baratoon khord nemikoneh ... while these players are still in YOUR TEAM MELLI and will be fighting for your honor and country.
this tendency to sacrifice everything and everyone only for the sake of one little man is most worrying.


so my suggestion is for all of you ppl to stop resorting to half-baked rumors and desperate measures to squeeze some positive out of a corpse. you only inflict more ridicule and negativity on the dead horse.

digeh khod danid

Payman Khan;

What are you talking about man? What did I see with my own eyes?

Korea is a better team that us, at least at the current TM majority of Korean players are better technically. They are tactic pazeer, team players etc. See how many of Koreans are playing abroad and how many of ours play abroad? Is this Ghotbi's fault too?

Worst thing about our players is lack of mental strength. In important games they become timid. Read Bakhtiarizadeh's comment about the WC2006 where he said, many of our players literally shit their pants when they came out for the game against Mexico and were like rabbits got caught in the headlight. Actually what separates Ando from many players in Iran is his mental strength.

Even in our league games even PP and SS as soon as they score a goal, they sit back. The problem is many of Iranians have a self centric view of our culture, football and think we are the best. Have a news for you we aren't.

A man tried to pull something out of the hat and he couldn't. Now you can grill him, even if he would have won that game and loose against Japan it was he , who would have been grilled. Had Ghotbi won that game it would have been players and had he lost (which he did) it is all him.