ACL brings up painful memories of AC2011!

[Paradigm]

Was Daie a great football player? Yes
Is Daie a great coach? No

He was put straight in charge of Iran team melli without any coaching experience. He botched Iran's WC qualification campaign.

Then he iwas out of job for a year but suddenly landed the Perspolis job. He should start from smaller clubs and work his way up by earning coachng credits.

PP is doomed to fail with him, as far as the ACL is concerned. Since the refs will not whistle in favor of the reds (unlike when they play in the IPL).

[Babak agha]

Paymon Jaan,
MY arguments was if Mazloomi wanted to play defensively he wouldn't have played with three forwards. Unless you say Mazloomi is crazy. To reiterate my point, all I am saying is based on Mazloomi playing with 3 forwards, it is an idication that he didnt' want to play a defensive game.

So according to that claim Mourihno/Inter had a attacking game plan and was playing offensively last year during CL against Barca, cause he field Eto'o, Milito, Pandev and Sneijder (3.5 strikers). But we all saw that they had a ultra defensive game plan. So either Mourinho was crazy or just fielding 3 strikers doesn't mean that you have a offensive strategy.

Proof of my claim:
barca vs Valencia, March 2, 2011,
1-0 for Barca,
Barca Subs: Keita for Iniestia (DM for AM)
Maxwell for Mascherano (D for DM).
So, the best team in the world was 1-0 up and made it safe. No insurance goal, no gutty gooty spiney spooney.
Cheers,

True, but we saw what that resulted into during their game against Arsenal a couple of weeks ago. So nothing "save" about that, but rather a selective point of view, if I may call it that.

I think each game and each team should be looked at individually. No team should choose to play certain style, offensively or defensively, all the time. Game plan and strategy are not general terms, but rather event dependent.
It also depends on the quality of your players and how it is executed. If you just put three forwards in line up, it does not mean winning or even scoring any goal, the fundamental question remains as to what strategy and game plan, and how the players executed it.
Now in specific, I agree with Peyman's observation regarding four ACL games and the Asian Cup. Wrong strategy and game plans failed, and the team with "proper" game plan and strategy AND well execution prevailed.

Thank you for your sensible words, saved me some typing

[Doctor DOOM]

it is quite hilarious how some of us insist on "names" and all sort of general references EXCEPT what is actually being played on the pitch!! and sometimes push the analogies to ridiculous and absurd levels in desperate attempts to prove something. quite amusing.

thankfully babak (above post) showed yet another example that some of us just close our eyes and refuse to address what's being played on the football pitch (w ref. to mourinho's use of attacking "names" while playing a different strategy)
however I really doubt ppl will start facing the reality. I'm pretty sure ppl will go on repeating the same general but irrelevant statements & focus on the "names" (instead of how the player is positioned, and what duties are asked of him) over and over just becoz they want to prove they were right in the first place!! :shrug: lol


****

and haji joon, I guess it isnt your day. or you would have picked a different team to use as your "attempt" to prove something.
perhaps you dont watch barca's games too often to know what and how the team is structured. otherwise you wouldnt have tried to bring up keita as if we're talking about someone like gatusso. keita may not be on par with xavi or iniesta. but he is quite a formidable player (and sometimes quite creative) when attacking. just check his beautiful lob assist to messi against Mallorca. it was simply exquisite.

and you definitely wouldnt have brought up maxwel's name. coz you would have known inclusion of maxwel (according to you "D" coz ON PAPER it says "defender"!!!!!!!! ) means EVEN MORE ATTACKS from the left flank. this is prime example of how some of you merely follow what's on paper and dont really follow the game that a particular team (or player) displays on the pitch.

But I can understand how you're clutching at straws to prove something. but maybe you shd have picked on a different team to do so.
this one was just too outlandish
better luck next time


however, I'm in a good mood and I'll help you with this: next time you see pedro or messi being subbed out for mascherano, THEN you can use that as your example.

************

to paradigm on PP and daei:
I think pp suffers from the same ills as steel-azin: lack of quality defense and defenders.
we shd understand mere "names" dont play the game. it is the players. (friends who insist on "names" may pay attention here)
if "names" were the basis then steel-azin shd have been the league leader with shitload of points ahead of sepahan.

pp's defense is extremely weak, slow (especially in the center) and uncoordinated. and if you are out of sync, it is suicide to try the
offside trap, as they did in this game.
and the opponent coach easily spotted the slow & soft center and kept on probing it. not to mention alasgar's horrible game was just "ghooz-e bala ghooz".
is daei a great coach? not yet. but he has the ingredients to become one in a few seasons later.
so I would share the blame of this loss on everyone in that team. from management to the training staff to the players, especially the 6 players closer to our goal

[Hajagha]

^ DD joon, did you watch Barca-Valencia? I did. I can see from your post that you haven't.

So, Keita can lob a ball, then he is creative. Interesting. Dude, we talk about Barca, not lahaf-zani Katol. I guess their "toop-jam kon" can eat whole karimi/Azizi without even a burp. I lob the ball all the times for god-sake. You either accept the above mentioned sub's are conservative, or you talk all year long and stay in your denial, it doesn't bother me.


You gotta admit that even the best team in the world doesn't risk it all. They check the water before jumping into it. Barca did it. It worked against Valencia, but it didn't work against Arsenal (the best game of the last few years if you ask me). Big deal, still the coach stayed with his strategy. You play against a good team, you expect to not trashing the other team. You are up with a goal, you stick to your plan, keep it up, if you can get the second goal, good for you, if not, win's still a win.

BTW, it's always my day. next time, try harder when you bluff on me. You are busted with the best team in the world strategy, and you come up with "maxwell means more attack from the left" without even watching the game. Jigar, it's not your year.

Quote of the week:

next time you see pedro or messi being subbed out for mascherano, THEN you can use that as your example.

Not Keita for Iniestia. Because Keita can lob the ball but Mascherano can not.

Until then, attack like gutsy basijiisssssssss. Remember?

Cheers,

[Ali Chicago]

So according to that claim Mourihno/Inter had a attacking game plan and was playing offensively last year during CL against Barca, cause he field Eto'o, Milito, Pandev and Sneijder (3.5 strikers). But we all saw that they had a ultra defensive game plan. So either Mourinho was crazy or just fielding 3 strikers doesn't mean that you have a offensive strategy.

\

I am afarid your claim isn't accurate . Inter played with 3 forwards in their home game since they wanted to win, but played with 2 forwards in Barcelona (away game). Even in the first game (where they played with three forwards) as soon as Inter got a 3-1 lead Pendev was pulled out and a midfielder Stankovic brought in. In the return leg where Inter wanted to keep the lead they started with two players (not three as your initial post claims) and pulled Sneijder out in 66th minute and both of its forwards in 81 and 86th minute and replaced them with a defender and a midfielder (see below).

Did Mazloomi pull any of the three strikers out? . I think Mazloomi still did a poor job and this post isn't to defend his coaching in Alsaad game, but criticizem is due somewhere else (not his so called defensive approach to the game).

I invite everyone to look at the two links I provide below. First link is the list of the players for the 3-1 win of Inter vs. Barca at Milan. That game Inter played with 3 strikers at home. However in the second game when they had to play defensively and be conservative to protect their win, Inter played with two forwards Etto and Milito. Pandev (despite your initial claim) wasn't even in the 18 player list. See below. Links are from uefa.com.

First leg Inter (home) 3 - Barca (Away ) 1 Inter started with three forwards but when they get a 3-1 lead, they change to 2.

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionslea...ups/index.html
Even in this game Pandev was subbed by Stankovic at 56 minute (forwards for midfielder), so when Morinihio got the lead he went from 3 forwards to 2.



Return leg Barca (home) 1 - Inter 0 Inter played with two forwards
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionslea...ups/index.html


In the second game seneijder was subbed at 66th minute by Sulley muntari (midfield for midfield). Milito was subbed by Ivan Cordoba (forward with a defender) at 81 minute. Etto (forward)was subbed by McDonald Miarga who is a midfielder in 86 mintue

3.5 strikers? Inter played at home with 3 strikers at home and pulled one out in 56th minute, as it is expected since they had a 3-1 lead. They played with only two strikers in Barcelona to begin with(not three as your statement above claims).


What are you saying, a coach is going to play with 3 forwards and still playing defensively? To me this is so obvious that I am not going to waist any time to argue such an obvious point.
Any coach that doesn't' want to play offensive and still start with three strikers must be insane and needs to be committed.

[Ali Chicago]

it is quite hilarious how some of us insist on "names" and all sort of general references EXCEPT what is actually being played on the pitch!! and sometimes push the analogies to ridiculous and absurd levels in desperate attempts to prove something. quite amusing.

...

I assume your first part of post was addressed at me. So, What exactly do you mean by insist one names? Baba joon it is quite obvious, instead of Sayad Salehi, Majidi, Borhani, SS coiuld play with one forward Majidi 4-5--1or two forwards 4-4-2 and pack the midfield with an extra defensiev midfielders (Kianoosh Rahmati) at least after they got the lead. Is this so hard to comprehend or we are arguing just for the sake of argument?
About your comment of "What actually beign played" that is the key word here. You are missing the big pictures. What is being played at the field and most importantly outcome of the game is a combination of:
what Mazloomi wanted and set his team up,
what SS players actually do at the field,
their pschological conditions at the game time,
plus Alsad players ,
Foosati,
a hint of luck,
referees calls.
add individual mistakes that determines the game outcome.
.
I bet you had SS won this game 1-0 we all have grambled but SS poor performance wouldn't have been criticized as much.

Do you consider all of these factores I listed above? No, you just lable the coach gutless, spinless and in your mind you solved the issue. This is a multi variable problem, to me it seems you "OVER SIMPLIFY" it.

P.S. I still hold Mazloomi's feet to fire for poor SS performance and these posts aren't to endorse Mazloomi's performance. My purpose is to show falacy of an approach to analyze the game by oversimplyfying the "What is being played at the field (your own words)" to what one of the coaches do.

Please answer the following questions?
Was Foosati barge choghondar? He didn't watch the SS games and he didn't Analyze SS before the game?
Alsaad players were just created to come and get humiliated by SS in Azadi to receive 4 goals and leave Iran?
Every Iranian team has to beat any of the Persian gulf countries with 2-3 goals and play beautiful games as well. Or else it is teh god damn coach's fault who is "gutless", "Spineless"?
Alsaad club is consisted of bunch of idiots who happen to pay a total sum of 15 million euros to two players Keita and Leonards. Our Montazari and Omranzadeh is able to eat Leonardo ba yek Loghmeh chap. Despite Leonardo getting paid 7 or 8 million Euros.


The problem is in our mentality that substitute our hopes and dreams instead of the reality. Our football isn't miles ahead of the rest of Asian teams, when we play them ugly truth shows up and we get pissed. Who is there to blame? Head coach (the spineless, gutless dude). As they say in Farsi "Hakim Bashi roo bekhbooneed".

thankfully babak (above post) showed yet another example that some of us just close our eyes and refuse to address what's being played on the football pitch (w ref. to mourinho's use of attacking "names" while playing a different strategy)
...

Please see my earlier post when I refuted his inaccurate/false claim below. If I were you I would have done a bit of research to make sure before basking in the inaccurate/false claim of another member.

[Babak agha]

I am afarid your claim isn't accurate . Inter played with 3 forwards in their home game since they wanted to win, but played with 2 forwards in Barcelona (away game). Even in the first game (where they played with three forwards) as soon as Inter got a 3-1 lead Pendev was pulled out and a midfielder Stankovic brought in. In the return leg where Inter wanted to keep the lead they started with two players (not three as your initial post claims) and pulled Sneijder out in 66th minute and both of its forwards in 81 and 86th minute and replaced them with a defender and a midfielder (see below).
Did Mazloomi pull any of the three strikers out? . I think Mazloomi still did a poor job and this post isn't to defend his coaching in Alsaad game, but criticizem is due somewhere else (not his so called defensive approach to the game).
I invite everyone to look at the two links I provide below. First link is the list of the players for the 3-1 win of Inter vs. Barca at Milan. That game Inter played with 3 strikers at home. However in the second game when they had to play defensively and be conservative to protect their win, Inter played with two forwards Etto and Milito. Pandev (despite your initial claim) wasn't even in the 18 player list. See below. Links are from uefa.com.
First leg Inter (home) 3 - Barca (Away ) 1 Inter started with three forwards but when they get a 3-1 lead, they change to 2.
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionslea...ups/index.html
Even in this game Pandev was subbed by Stankovic at 56 minute (forwards for midfielder), so when Morinihio got the lead he went from 3 forwards to 2.
Return leg Barca (home) 1 - Inter 0 Inter played with two forwards
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionslea...ups/index.html
In the second game seneijder was subbed at 66th minute by Sulley muntari (midfield for midfield). Milito was subbed by Ivan Cordoba (forward with a defender) at 81 minute. Etto (forward)was subbed by McDonald Miarga who is a midfielder in 86 mintue
3.5 strikers? Inter played at home with 3 strikers at home and pulled one out in 56th minute, as it is expected since they had a 3-1 lead. They played with only two strikers in Barcelona to begin with(not three as your statement above claims).
What are you saying, a coach is going to play with 3 forwards and still playing defensively? To me this is so obvious that I am not going to waist any time to argue such an obvious point.
Any coach that doesn't' want to play offensive and still start with three strikers must be insane and needs to be committed.

You mixing things up just to proof a point. Where did I say that when you're 3-1 up you shouldn't sub in a more defending player ( note that being 3-1 up is different than being 2-1 up, but even then I never claimed that it's wrong to sub in a more defending player. )
I wasn't talking about the return match either, I was talking about the first match. And were they playing all attacking, or were they they more relying on counterattacks?

And what about the teams that always play 4-3-3, they never play defensively? That's strange, because in Holland all the teams play 4-3-3 ( note three attackers ) and almost all them play defensively when playing against either PSV, Ajax or Twente.

And I am not saying that SS wanted to defend or anything. So please next time don't put any words in my mounth, and then claim that I was wrong.

We're not here to win a contest, but to exchange ideas ( hopefully in a mature way), proving the other guy wrong doesn't get us any points.

And people please: don't take everything so personal!!! Just because someone doesn't agree with your point of view or has his own thoughts doesn't mean you have to get all offended, defensive, go all on attack just to proove the other guy wrong. Let's keep it light, simple and fun, the way the subject of discussion - football- is inteted to be.

Cheerio

[Doctor DOOM]

My dear haji, the mere fact that you have to resort to saying “risk it all” means you are trying to use only extreme cases to prove a point. If you read the posts you’d know nobody said “risk it all” or “attack recklessly” or … . we’re talking about having an attacking strategy. This by no means is an extreme case.

Secondly, my keita example was to show you from his style and performances, he, by no definition, can be construed as a defensive player (and Maxwel's case EVEN LESS ) Now, you wish to ridicule the example, that’s your business. Unfortunately, it doesn’t take away the thrust of the example.




Ali jan, instead of talking about matters like when pandev came in or not, you seem to have skipped the gist of the example which was to show a coach can still have attacking players in his team AND STILL PLAY A VERY DEFENSIVE GAME. So mere presence of some “names” on the roll-call does not and never does mean an attacking strategy.
and in this, babak's example was spot on. testament to this is what THE COACH, HIMSELF said: "it doesnt make sense to play football against a team like barcelona" in his defense of how defensive and closed he played in BOTH games. now, when the coach says that, why shd we try to second guess and interpret his words the way WE WANT?
(I remember he said something like this AGAIN when his madrid team did play football and still lost 5-0, when he intended to defend his decisions in Inter)

[Ali Chicago]

To Babak and Doctor.
I really don't know what to say anymore. Babak posted wrong info (inter played with 2 forwards in Barcelona) and still come here and claim the high ground. You guys only focus on when Pandev came out and dismiss the gist of the post AGAIN. Inter played wtih 2 forwards in Barcelona not 3 forwards as Babak initially claimed in his first post.

Can one of you two gentelmen say why Morinihio played 4-3-3 in Milan but 4-2-2 in Barcelona?

I know you won't answer and dodge the issue, so I give you the answer. Inter didn't want to play defensively in Milan played with 3 forwards in Milan. In Barcelona they played with 2 forwards because they wanted to play defensively.

To Babak
Please follow your own advice about not digging and strongly suggest to let go of this know it all attitude. Hegel German philosepher once quoted to say "Bad for reality if it doesn't fit my theory". It reminds me of you.

Man you said something totally WRONG (Inter played with 2 forwards in Barca), I went spend time researched and showed you and you still have the aducity to come and preach at me? So please follow your own advice first.


To Doctor.
I listed a whole series of factors that impact the game flow and you conviniently ignored them and still amazingly tried to hide behind the Babak FALSE claim. Really amazing.

According to Doctor and Babak when a coach wants to play defensively they won't play 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2. They will play 4-3-3 but they play defensive 4-3-3. Please ask them how 4-3-3 is more defensive than other line ups. Add to this the every god damn coach is spineless and gutless and these are new lessons we all need to learn about football.

I have spent enough time to prove a very obvious point (that 4-3-3) is the least defensive line up in soccer and it seems we talk past each other. I really tried to state an obvious point but didn't get anywhere. Coach isn't a puppet master. He simply has a plan and line up players to implement his plan. Now mayb coach didn't read the other team well, maybe players chock under pressure, maybe coach hasn't put the right players to implement his plan. He rightfully needs to be criticized about all of these but not admitting a very obvious FACT (that he played 4-3-3 not 4-5-1, not 4-3-2-1, not 4-4-2 which indicates he didn't want to play defesively) is uncomprehensible to me. Let's agree to disagree. God bless.

[Hajagha]

Thank you for accepting risk it all and reckless attack are not smart.

That's what I started to discuss.

Cheers

[Babak agha]

To Babak and Doctor.
I really don't know what to say anymore. Babak posted wrong info (inter played with 2 forwards in Barcelona) and still come here and claim the high ground. You guys only focus on when Pandev came out and dismiss the gist of the post AGAIN. Inter played wtih 2 forwards in Barcelona not 3 forwards as Babak initially claimed in his first post.
Can one of you two gentelmen say why Morinihio played 4-3-3 in Milan but 4-2-2 in Barcelona?
I know you won't answer and dodge the issue, so I give you the answer. Inter didn't want to play defensively in Milan played with 3 forwards in Milan. In Barcelona they played with 2 forwards because they wanted to play defensively.
To Babak
Please follow your own advice about not digging and strongly suggest to let go of this know it all attitude. Hegel German philosepher once quoted to say "Bad for reality if it doesn't fit my theory". It reminds me of you.
Man you said something totally WRONG (Inter played with 2 forwards in Barca), I went spend time researched and showed you and you still have the aducity to come and preach at me? So please follow your own advice first.
To Doctor.
I listed a whole series of factors that impact the game flow and you conviniently ignored them and still amazingly tried to hide behind the Babak FALSE claim. Really amazing.
According to Doctor and Babak when a coach wants to play defensively they won't play 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2. They will play 4-3-3 but they play defensive 4-3-3. Please ask them how 4-3-3 is more defensive than other line ups. Add to this the every god damn coach is spineless and gutless and these are new lessons we all need to learn about football.
I have spent enough time to prove a very obvious point (that 4-3-3) is the least defensive line up in soccer and it seems we talk past each other. I really tried to state an obvious point but didn't get anywhere. Coach isn't a puppet master. He simply has a plan and line up players to implement his plan. Now mayb coach didn't read the other team well, maybe players chock under pressure, maybe coach hasn't put the right players to implement his plan. He rightfully needs to be criticized about all of these but not admitting a very obvious FACT (that he played 4-3-3 not 4-5-1, not 4-3-2-1, not 4-4-2 which indicates he didn't want to play defesively) is uncomprehensible to me. Let's agree to disagree. God bless.

Instead of name calling and trying to insult your fellow forum members, you could read my post carefully. Nowhere in my posts did I refer to the second leg of the game. I even explained it more clearly in my second post that I was referring to the first game!
Besides that I never said that Mazloomi was playing defensively. I never even mentioned Esteghlal....I don't know how you came to all this conclusions.

I even gave you more examples of how (almost) all the Dutch team play in a 4-3-3 formation, yet not all of them wanting to play an offensive game!

It seems you are just choosing not to understand what I'm trying to say. I believe it's best to stop arguing before you start qouting Philosophers......


@ Haj Agha:

A coach/team/person should never opt for the "risk it all strategy", unless (and even then you should weigh in a thing or two) you've got nothing else to lose and everything to gain.

To me an unnecessary risky strategy is on par, and in most cases more stupid, than a conservative approach( A 10 men Feyenoord trying to attack against a much stronger PSV, and eventually losing 10 to 0).......But it doesn't give one the excuse of not trying to change his or her approach/tactic when you see time and again that your initial strategy doesn't provide you with the result you were (and this is the key word here) HOPING for.

[Doctor DOOM]

it's rather tiring going round and round, in circles.
but to clarify the point ali jan is trying to push, which according to him:

[B][U]
I have spent enough time to prove a very obvious point (that 4-3-3) is the least defensive line up in soccer

hmm..... I'd love to see how he explains iran-skorea game where our analyst played his favorite 4-3-3 and yet the team looked like a paralyzed little mouse, trapped in a corner. besides, he could have played 3-2-5 even. but as long as the team was formed in a closed cluster with little space between the goal and the bulk of the team, it wouldnt make any difference. it still screams fear!!

so instead of looking at numbers and paper, it is better to watch the actual game and see how the team plays and what they do and what duties are asked of them. this would explain thing far better than closing our eyes and merely reciting series of numbers and "names" we've read on the roster sheet

[Ali Chicago]

it's rather tiring going round and round, in circles.
but to clarify the point ali jan is trying to push, which according to him:


hmm..... I'd love to see how he explains iran-skorea game where our analyst played his favorite 4-3-3 and yet the team looked like a paralyzed little mouse, trapped in a corner. besides, he could have played 3-2-5 even. but as long as the team was formed in a closed cluster with little space between the goal and the bulk of the team, it wouldnt make any difference. it still screams fear!!

so instead of looking at numbers and paper, it is better to watch the actual game and see how the team plays and what they do and what duties are asked of them. this would explain thing far better than closing our eyes and merely reciting series of numbers and "names" we've read on the roster sheet

Payman jaan

I am really getting frustrated since we aren't getting anywhere? Can you answer my two questions please?

If a coach wants to play defensive does he play 4-5-1 or 4-3-3?

Can you rank the defensive line ups in soccer from defensive to most offensive please I will below. I clarify, line ups are a plan that coach puts in place his approach to the game if you will. How game is played is a totally different issue. Many variables comes to play which I listed some of them in few posts earlier. I really apprecite Haji's feedback on this as well, since he is coaching and deals with the issue on a day to day base
If I am a coach and want to play defensive my favorite formation will be:

4-5-1 or 3-6-1
4-4-2

and I will never play 4-3-3 if my approach to the game is defensive. Babak's example was wrong. Inter didn't want to play defensive in Milan that is why they played 4-3-3. As soon as they got the lead they pulled Pandev out 56th minute and played with 2 forwards.

Please answer my two questions. If you don't beleive in 4-5-1 or 3-6-1 is more defensive than 4-3-3 please state it clearly as well. I know I am being repetetive but say it again. I realize what happens during the game is important and not 4-4-2 or whatever. But If we want to talk about coach's approach to the game, only thing we can look at is his team's formation. That is an indication of the his approach. If he lines up his team 4-3-3 and his team gets hammered during the game and has to play defense, he can be criticized for poor strategy and tactical choice, he can be criticized for poor game reading about the opponents, but blaming him to be timid, spineless, gutless isn't fair. You label him as stupid, poor game reader, not making real time adjustment to the game all granted, playing 4-3-3 and get labled as gutless isn't fair.

[Ali Chicago]

Instead of name calling and trying to insult your fellow forum members ...

.

How did I name call you? You are the one who keep repeating "I am the one who don't understand and blamed me on digging and arguing for the sake of arguement".

If you are really 22, when your father hadn't even decided to have you; I was playing soccer and not gol kochik with toop plastici. I played, against guys like Bayani brothers, Asghar Hajiloo, Panjali, Changeez, Gholam Fathabadi, Vigen Zainali, Behtash Fariba, Fardali-nia brothers, Yousef Mahdavi, Mehdi Ghazal, Saeed Marghecheeyan, Reza Nalchegar and many others. So probably I know a few things about soccer, so slow down with sarcastic comments like

It seems either you are not able to understand what I'm trying to say or you are just choosing not to. In either case I believe it's best to stop arguing before you start quoting "philosephers", economists or baghale sare kooche.......

FYI Hegel ain't a baghale sare kooche. This is what I call brash and arrogant. You can choose not to read or ignore my post. Who the hell are u to tell me "to stop arguing"? As a matter of fact I was talking to Payman, until you came into this argument and now have the audacity to tell me stop arguing? Why ? Cause you provided wrong info? Morinihio played 4-3-3 game in Milan which he must win his home game against Barsa, therefore a coach who wants to play defensive will play 4-3-3. He won't play 4-5-1 3-6-1, 4-4-2, 4--2-3-1. 4-3-3 is the defensive line up why beacuse you claim Dutch teams use it and you claim so. Screw the reality of soccer. Babak says so, so it must be the truth.

when you were 5 I started my first coaching job, coached in youth and adult, high school level. Have a official USSF license to coach up to 16 year old across US. Met many big name coaches and players and learned from them (to name a few Mitonovitch, Anson Torence and Kobi Jones). So probably I know a thing or two more. God gave us two eyes and two ears and one mouth. So try to listen and read twice as expressing your opinions.

Remember we have two ears, two eyes and one mouth. Well we got two hands to type but it doesn't mean we need to use them all the time!!!!!

[Babak agha]

^ thank you for your reply.